I'm *this* close to buying an AUG - need a few questions answered please - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I'm *this* close to buying an AUG - need a few questions answered please

Posted: 8/24/2017 10:10:13 AM EDT

I have always loved bullpups, the unique factor I guess. I've owned several ranging from the cheesy old bullpup AK's from the early 2000's, the PS90, the FS2000, etc. ALWAYS had a soft spot for the AUG.

Style-wise, the A3 was the one that always struck me as the best blend of classic and modern. From what I read, the Sabre/Vltor A3's are out of production but had some problems? So I've been eyeing the new M1 with extended rail, figuring that's about as close as I can get.

I shoot and stock 55gr Xm193 ammo almost exclusively, and don't want to change that for a new gun. How does the 1:9 twist work with 55gr projectiles?

My number one concern is reliability. AUG has a legendary reputation in this department, but I also understand that many of the vital components of these new AUGs are US-made. Hate to say it, but for some guns, that means poorer quality than the original Euro parts. How have the US components stacked up to original Austrian parts?

As far as sights - I'd be putting an Aimpoint M3 style dot sight on it, but would back it up with AR sights of some variety - am I understanding correctly that the M1 extended rail sits at essentially AR height? Meaning I could use any standard AR style sights? I have a pair of HK416 sights that I would love to install but fear they would sit too low?

I'm sure I will think of questions to add, but for now, that's what I've got

Thanks guys

Posted: 8/24/2017 11:50:09 AM EDT

[#1]

Here's a recent thread where we discussed some of your concerns.

I have both an early Sabre A3 and a newer M1 and both had to go back to the factory for small parts issues. In both cases, Steyr took care of them. I trust my two AUGs now, one as a trunk gun, but I will say that you need to properly vet the firearm before entrusting your life with it. That goes without saying, as it is a good idea for any gun, but I stop short of saying that the US made AUGs are rumble-ready right out of the box. They are brilliantly designed rifles, but the issues of outsourcing and the American "I'm going on break" work ethic cannot be ignored.

They run like sewing machines once they've been broken in and proven themselves. Now, if your expectation is to buy it, lube it and put 2,000 rounds through it with no issues, then Steyr has a 0-2 record with me in that regard.

I absolutely LOVE the AUG, it's just a shame that we, the gun community, don't know more about the materials, manufacturing and proofing processes over at Steyr.

Posted: 8/24/2017 12:03:54 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
Here's a recent thread where we discussed some of your concerns.

I have both an early Sabre A3 and a newer M1 and both had to go back to the factory for small parts issues. In both cases, Steyr took care of them. I trust my two AUGs now, one as a trunk gun, but I will say that you need to properly vet the firearm before entrusting your life with it. That goes without saying, as it is a good idea for any gun, but I stop short of saying that the US made AUGs are rumble-ready right out of the box. They are brilliantly designed rifles, but the issues of outsourcing and the American "I'm going on break" work ethic cannot be ignored.

They run like sewing machines once they've been broken in and proven themselves. Now, if your expectation is to buy it, lube it and put 2,000 rounds through it with no issues, then Steyr has a 0-2 record with me in that regard.

I absolutely LOVE the AUG, it's just a shame that we, the gun community, don't know more about the materials, manufacturing and proofing processes over at Steyr.

View Quote

I read that thread, and I feel like I remember seeing your posts about the issues also. Not exactly confidence inspiring, especially with LazyEngineer's AUG also going back to Steyr for a broken part and potential barrel issues. Might just be sticking to the ol' Colt M4 for now.

Posted: 8/24/2017 1:01:46 PM EDT

[#3]

I was under the impression that all of the small parts are Austrian made. Barrel, stock, receiver, trigger, and flash hider are US made and give the AUG the necessary number of US parts to be 922r compliant.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Posted: 8/24/2017 1:34:45 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
I was under the impression that all of the small parts are Austrian made. Barrel, stock, receiver, trigger, and flash hider are US made and give the AUG the necessary number of US parts to be 922r compliant.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

View Quote

And there's my hang up. All the parts that matter are now US made. Barf.

Posted: 8/24/2017 2:04:40 PM EDT

[#5]

Jesus Christ. Two guys have problems and the platform is ruined.

Go buy a KelTec.

Posted: 8/24/2017 2:59:40 PM EDT

[#6]

I'd pay so much more for Austrian made but I'll take what's on the market.

Up until late 2015, they had Austrian made barrels finished by FN which had markings on the barrel itself.

This year I purchased a new rifle and now the barrel has the "US made barrel" right on the gas group. I don't know what kinda change they made over the years but

Basically, the whole thing is now Murican.

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Jesus Christ. Two guys have problems and the platform is ruined.

Go buy a KelTec.

View Quote

Posted: 8/24/2017 3:39:03 PM EDT

[#7]

Don't know where you guys are getting your info from.

Pretty much all the parts are still made in Austria, accept the barrel, receiver and a few small parts, ie flash hider, check nut, trigger

Parts below made in Austria and imported to build AUGs >>
Complete bolt carrier group
Receiver bushings
Gas Block
Gas Piston & Plug, Rings and spring
Receiver Trunion
Charging handle assembly
Barrel grips, spring and pin
Stock assembly
Hammer pack

They never had Austrian made barrels that were finished by FN or Sabre

FN uses the same type of machine that Steyr uses to make the barrels.

Posted: 8/24/2017 3:39:36 PM EDT

[#8]

The only 2 problems I ever heard of Sabre A3 rifles having are a charging handle main/interior body that was slightly oversized (so it may be stiff sliding inside the receiver during charging), and the front barrel latch plate not being completely flush and/or not having a correct size hole for the retaining plunger that could sometimes make the barrel assembly not interface 100%.

My Sabre A3 did not have problems with either of those things. I did notice my Vltor A3 charges a little easier, but the Sabre was not too tight. I wouldn't have realized the difference had I not read about it here.

I've read a couple reports of FN barrels not being the best. I have a 1:7 but haven't fired enough rounds through it to know. There is a borescope pic of land erosion near the muzzle on Lazy's AUG log and he advised it has a fairly low round count, so the wear seems excessive, especially for a chrome-lined bore.

Posted: 8/24/2017 11:47:28 PM EDT

[#9]

Barrel and receiver have the greatest impact on firearms accuracy and the overall performance.

That said, the two most important parts are made in US.

I guess we are seeing this from a different perspective but the gun is American made in my book.

And I'm fairly surprised that the bolt carrier group is Austrian made. Nice.

Regarding lazys barrel, I'd like to know what's up with it. I hope it doesn't happen to me

Posted: 8/25/2017 12:11:28 AM EDT

[#10]

Lazy's issues notwithstanding, my semi USA AUG is outstanding in the workmanship department. Reliability with all kinds of .223 and 5.56 has been stellar. Accuracy is very good....I can run it at about 2.5 MOA with my cheesy ass SIG Romeo 7 if I concentrate...and that is off the hood of my Jeep.

After about 500 rounds, the trigger is decent....some take up and a fairly heavy 7 to 8 pounds....but manageable for what it is. I am not comfortable, personally, with running the AUG with a light trigger so I have left it as it is after some consideration.

Unlike the OP, I do NOT like bullpups at all. I consider them more "second line" weapons.....personally. That being said, it has somehow become one of my favorite rifles I have ever owned. I love the damn thing.

Posted: 8/25/2017 12:43:38 AM EDT

[#11]

A 1/9 barrel is great for 55gr rounds. It should easily stabilize rounds up to 69grs. And MAY even do rounds up to 77grs.

Posted: 8/25/2017 11:28:17 AM EDT

[#12]

https://i.imgur.com/dQkpT1Q.jpg

Headed to range as Im posting this

Posted: 8/25/2017 12:22:00 PM EDT

[#13]

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Nice!

Posted: 8/25/2017 12:32:01 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
A 1/9 barrel is great for 55gr rounds. It should easily stabilize rounds up to 69grs. And MAY even do rounds up to 77grs.

View Quote

1:7 is greater, because it works perfectly with 55gr rounds AND bullets heavier than 69gr.
It's only a disadvantage if you fire lightweight bullets <50gr so fragile that they spin apart. I've never personally seen that happen. I never shoot anything lighter than 55gr.

Posted: 8/25/2017 1:50:32 PM EDT

[#15]

On the other hand... A 1/9 may stabilize 77 grains...

But you could always use the AUG to combat the invading varmints in your backyard though! Laws permitting and all that.

Posted: 8/25/2017 10:15:00 PM EDT

[#16]

I've put 1000s and 1000s of rounds through various AUGs all have been extremely reliable. I had 6000rds through one with no discernible change and accuracy. FN barrels are very good from my experience. Henderson Defense said their AUGs have been doing very well and they use them as a bullet hoses. They said the gas block gets worn out before the barrels and that's north of 50,000rds of FA if I remember correctly.

Posted: 9/2/2017 1:49:18 AM EDT

[#17]

So what would you guys say is considered the best of the flattop AUGs? The Vltor A3, the Sabre A3, or the new M1?

Posted: 9/2/2017 4:08:25 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
So what would you guys say is considered the best of the flattop AUGs? The Vltor A3, the Sabre A3, or the new M1?

View Quote

All the same really. The flattops just look a bit different.

If I were looking for a flattop AUG. I'd get whatever I could get cheapest, first.

Posted: 9/2/2017 10:37:39 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
So what would you guys say is considered the best of the flattop AUGs? The Vltor A3, the Sabre A3, or the new M1?

View Quote

IMO the A3 has a nice advantage in that you can buy a rail that extends from the ejection port to over the barrel. The M1 has a block on the receiver so you can't extend the rail over the barrel.

Posted: 9/2/2017 11:12:20 AM EDT

[#20]

I had a locking lug chip out* on my AUG's trunnion. According to the list above that's a Austrian made part.

Steyr replaced the trunnion and that's been it. I've got several thousand rounds through mine, all with FN barrels.

As far as working well with different bullet weights, I get good results with everything from 40gr to 77gr.

If I had to grab one rifle to trust my life to, it''d be my USA made AUG.

AJ

*I found out the trunnion broke while cleaning. Rifle never had a stoppage.

Posted: 9/2/2017 1:04:51 PM EDT

[#21]

If I'm not wrong, the whole receiver is made by VLTOR in US.
I guess I'm wrong

Quote History

Quoted:
I had a locking lug chip out* on my AUG's trunnion. According to the list above that's a Austrian made part.

https://i.imgur.com/lX2ot4p.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2CPk4F0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3ojsjYn.jpg

Steyr replaced the trunnion and that's been it. I've got several thousand rounds through mine, all with FN barrels.

As far as working well with different bullet weights, I get good results with everything from 40gr to 77gr.

If I had to grab one rifle to trust my life to, it''d be my USA made AUG.

AJ

*I found out the trunnion broke while cleaning. Rifle never had a stoppage.

View Quote

Posted: 9/2/2017 9:13:53 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

IMO the A3 has a nice advantage in that you can buy a rail that extends from the ejection port to over the barrel. The M1 has a block on the receiver so you can't extend the rail over the barrel.

View Quote

If I could do it all over again....I would have searched out an A3. That being said, the A3M1 is still a darn nice rifle.

Posted: 9/2/2017 10:09:41 PM EDT

[#23]

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Quoted:
If I could do it all over again....I would have searched out an A3. That being said, the A3M1 is still a darn nice rifle.

View Quote

the m1 is better balanced, the A3 is somewhat front heavy

Posted: 9/2/2017 10:31:29 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
If I'm not wrong, the whole receiver is made by VLTOR in US.
I guess I'm wrong

View Quote

Steyr owns the receiver castings that Vltor machines. The receiver parts are all imported and assembled by Steyr.

Pretty soon the machining process will all be done by Steyr in Alabama. Same with the barrels.

Posted: 9/3/2017 1:50:38 PM EDT

[#25]

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Quoted:
the m1 is better balanced, the A3 is somewhat front heavy

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With what barrel and accessories? For me the balance is close to perfect with a 20" barrel and a little butt heavy with a 16". I haven't tried a 40mm GL on the front, so I can't say I've seen all the possibilities.

AJ

Posted: 9/3/2017 2:01:08 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:

Steyr owns the receiver castings that Vltor machines. The receiver parts are all imported and assembled by Steyr.

Pretty soon the machining process will all be done by Steyr in Alabama. Same with the barrels.

View Quote

Man, after reading your AUG drivel for the last few years......if they get cheap enough due to being made in the US, I may eventually get one.

Posted: 9/3/2017 2:32:13 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
So what would you guys say is considered the best of the flattop AUGs? The Vltor A3, the Sabre A3, or the new M1?

View Quote

Vltor A3, by a slight margin. I preferred the original longest length A3 rail. Some Vltor A3's had it too. It goes all the way to the front of the gas block.

Posted: 9/3/2017 5:21:03 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

Steyr owns the receiver castings that Vltor machines. The receiver parts are all imported and assembled by Steyr.

Pretty soon the machining process will all be done by Steyr in Alabama. Same with the barrels.

View Quote

That's good to hear. No offense meant to FN or VLTOR but I don't think a subcontractor ever has the as much motivation to make something right as the guys who ultimately slap their name on the product. Not saying their farmed out parts are crap just a general theory.

Posted: 9/3/2017 5:51:29 PM EDT

[#29]

Vltor had their name on the bottom of the receiver for a while.

Posted: 9/4/2017 10:50:00 AM EDT

[#30]

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Quoted:

With what barrel and accessories? For me the balance is close to perfect with a 20" barrel and a little butt heavy with a 16". I haven't tried a 40mm GL on the front, so I can't say I've seen all the possibilities.

AJ

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I can't really account for personal accessories or preferences but the16" bbl straight out the box A3 has balance that is front biased vs the M1 16"bbl (scoped & long rail versions) has a more neutral balance. A3 has more material in front of pistol grip vs the M1 that has most of the material over the pistol grip. 20" bbls push the weight forward even more. The only butt heavy AUG is one with the receiver and barrel removed.

Posted: 9/5/2017 12:11:33 AM EDT

[#31]

I got my M1 short rail from pete and it's more accurate than I thought it would be.
It's wearing a 1x4 PST with an Aero standard LW mount turned backwards.
I had an aimpoint on it but with the scope it looks similar to the original.
With hornady and sierra 55 grain bullet handloads I'm getting 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards.
It's never jams and is very impressive to me.
If you want one get it.
You won't regret it.

Posted: 9/6/2017 1:34:10 PM EDT

[#32]

i just posted my 4 Augs on the top of page 38

i have basically all of them including the sabre A3

Ive never had a problem with any of them and find them all to be built like tanks
aside from this post, ive never heard of anyone having problems with their Augs
i would imagine the percentage of Augs that have had to go back to the manufacture with problems is extremely low

As far as the ones I own, they all are made with the same excellent quality and I see no difference as to what factory the parts came from

get the rifle and stop worrying

as far as your other question op........yes you can put any buis on your Aug that would work on an AR15

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - I'm *this* close to buying an AUG - need a few questions answered please

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