Armory Sponsor
Posted: 3/8/2010 5:08:06 PM EDT
| How many rounds down the pipe? MSAR's only please. Any parts wear out or brake? If so at around how many rounds? What ammo? |
|
Hmmm...
First STG has appx 2.5K rds through it, had a couple of broken early-style extractors (no problem w/the new-style extractors) and a couple of broken bolt sleeves. Second STG has appx 3K rds through it and also had a couple of broken early-style extractors, no other problems. Other two STG's haven't had any problems but don't have much of a round count through them yet (appx 500rds & 1K rds respectively). Ammo has been mostly Silver Bear & Brown bear w/the rest being Prvi Partizan M193. Tomac |
|
About 80 rounds so far. Worked perfectly. Brass was a bit large, but Dave took care of me.
Mounted an EOTech 512.A65 and wonder of wonders, it was sighted in at 50 yards with absolutely no input from me. Go figure. Never mounted a sight that did not have to be zeroed in. Anyway, I actually sold one of my AR's after playing with this STG. There simply was no comparison for short range shooting and point-ability. Recoil was almost non-existent. I am sold on it. |
|
Tag
I just got my 556 this week. Can't shoot it till I get an optic on top, but it should be here today or Monday. My 30 round mags should be here Monday, so once i get it all together, I will go out and burn it up. I got some Privi m193, 55gr TAP, 55gr Ultramax, 55gr Norinco, 55gr reloads, and 68gr reloads to put through it. I'll post the results when I finally get out there. |
|
We have 2 green stocked (railed) 16 inch MSAR E4s. We decided to see if they were going to be reliable enough as SHTF guns. Thus far they have been flawless! No failures to feed fire extract or eject. Out only "mods" are trigger tamers and Gemtech bi-lock flash hiders. Before we started shooting them I wiped some lithium grease/ultimate lube on the rails and high friction points as well the hammer hook on the trigger pack. This made the initial operation much smoother and trigger smoother and lighter.
I did a break in cleaning on the barrels (only) with a pull through for the first 20 rounds. Please note that this was the ONLY cleaning or lubrication we have done thus far. After that we have fired them both suppressed and unsuppressed. We have used the stock clear mags, PMAGs, GI mags, and SA80 mags with zero issues. I run them on the "normal" or "standard" gas setting but have tried both the "heavy" and "grenade" settings for the fun of it on 1 mag each. On grenade it is obviously a single shot but with my M496D cans they are certainly quiet. E4 #1 is mine and now has 1600 total rounds through it. 20 break in were 68 grain match black hills. 20 rounds were 55gr S&B. The rest have been 62gr and 55gr WOLF polymer coated! Yes it has 1560 rounds of Wolf with NO cleaning or lube after the initial greasing and break in (barrel only) cleaning. Thus far it has zero issues! E4 #2 is my wife's and now has 1440 total rounds under the exact same conditions. This rifle is just 160 rounds behind my rifle as we were running pistol drills and ran out of time on our last range trip.Thus far it has zero issues! I have shot both for 300 rounds suppressed (each of the guns) in normal gas setting and the rest was with no suppressor. On each range session we have done slow fire for accuracy and then done close range drills shooting multiple mags per run through the stages literally as fast as we can accurately go. On every range trip we run em hard and let em cool so we can safely put them in the case! They are literally smoking hot at the gas block yet you can still touch the bolt carrier with no discomfort. So far both rifles have zero issues! They are dirty as hell but smooth and reliable with NO broken parts (yes we took them down and checked). So why run them to 2K each with no real maintenance and dirty ammo? It is a "worst case test" that will not damage a well made rifle. This also gives the shooter practice and confidence in the weapon as well as shakes out all of the accessories. I normally consider a defense semi-auto rifle/shotgun or pistol "fully broken in" at 500-750 rounds. Defense revolvers, hunting bolt/lever action riles, pump shotguns with quite bit less round count of 250-400 as they are normally easier to spot issues in. This is an expensive process (even with Wolf) but it will assure you have a 100% "go" weapon. Thank God I was stocking away all the ammo I could lay hands on when it was cheap and have easy access to a range! After running the E4s through all the break in rounds I will drop them in the ultrasonic cleaner, scrub the snot out of them, check for any unusual wear patterns and any breakage. After that lube them up and put them in a normal practice/duty cycle. Bottom line on our MSAR E4s is that they are solid rifles (thus far) capable of very good accuracy and "ball bat" reliable. Very low recoil and muzzle flip too! 
|
|
Quoted:
We have 2 green stocked (railed) 16 inch MSAR E4s. We decided to see if they were going to be reliable enough as SHTF guns. Thus far they have been flawless! No failures to feed fire extract or eject. Out only "mods" are trigger tamers and Gemtech bi-lock flash hiders. Before we started shooting them I wiped some lithium grease/ultimate lube on the rails and high friction points as well the hammer hook on the trigger pack. This made the initial operation much smoother and trigger smoother and lighter. I did a break in cleaning on the barrels (only) with a pull through for the first 20 rounds. Please note that this was the ONLY cleaning or lubrication we have done thus far. After that we have fired them both suppressed and unsuppressed. We have used the stock clear mags, PMAGs, GI mags, and SA80 mags with zero issues. I run them on the "normal" or "standard" gas setting but have tried both the "heavy" and "grenade" settings for the fun of it on 1 mag each. On grenade it is obviously a single shot but with my M496D cans they are certainly quiet. E4 #1 is mine and now has 1600 total rounds through it. 20 break in were 68 grain match black hills. 20 rounds were 55gr S&B. The rest have been 62gr and 55gr WOLF polymer coated! Yes it has 1560 rounds of Wolf with NO cleaning or lube after the initial greasing and break in (barrel only) cleaning. Thus far it has zero issues! E4 #2 is my wife's and now has 1440 total rounds under the exact same conditions. This rifle is just 160 rounds behind my rifle as we were running pistol drills and ran out of time on our last range trip.Thus far it has zero issues! I have shot both for 300 rounds suppressed (each of the guns) in normal gas setting and the rest was with no suppressor. On each range session we have done slow fire for accuracy and then done close range drills shooting multiple mags per run through the stages literally as fast as we can accurately go. On every range trip we run em hard and let em cool so we can safely put them in the case! They are literally smoking hot at the gas block yet you can still touch the bolt carrier with no discomfort. So far both rifles have zero issues! They are dirty as hell but smooth and reliable with NO broken parts (yes we took them down and checked). So why run them to 2K each with no real maintenance and dirty ammo? It is a "worst case test" that will not damage a well made rifle. This also gives the shooter practice and confidence in the weapon as well as shakes out all of the accessories. I normally consider a defense semi-auto rifle/shotgun or pistol "fully broken in" at 500-750 rounds. Defense revolvers, hunting bolt/lever action riles, pump shotguns with quite bit less round count of 250-400 as they are normally easier to spot issues in. This is an expensive process (even with Wolf) but it will assure you have a 100% "go" weapon. Thank God I was stocking away all the ammo I could lay hands on when it was cheap and have easy access to a range! After running the E4s through all the break in rounds I will drop them in the ultrasonic cleaner, scrub the snot out of them, check for any unusual wear patterns and any breakage. After that lube them up and put them in a normal practice/duty cycle. Bottom line on our MSAR E4s is that they are solid rifles (thus far) capable of very good accuracy and "ball bat" reliable. Very low recoil and muzzle flip too! Thanks for the reply. Is that all ya got?
Very nice. |
|
Well here is my range report. I had several issues with the rifle and I will go into that here in a few, but don't take this as rant or a flame towards Microtech. I have contacted them and I am waiting on them to call me back.
Prior to this range trip, gun was NIB, cleaned by me, and only factory mags were used (10 and 30 round mags). First thing I did was sight in my red dot which went very quickly. It was a Bushnell TRS 25 (not the best) and it took 6 rounds to do this. These rounds fired fine and so did the next 4 after that (10 round mag). I was using Privi M193 when sighting the rifle in. After that I switched toa 30 round mag with more Privi. It went bang twice just fine and then the problems started. I began having FTE, FTF, and light primer strikes. After dealing with this for the entire mag, I decided to change the gas setting, but things didn't improve. Basically after the first 10 rounds, the most I got off was 4 in a row before it would either FTF or FTE and sometimes if it did feed, it would be a light primer strike. These light strikes would leave a barely noticable mark on the primer (this problem confused me the most). Once again this not bashing the product, I know bad apples sometimes get through. I have contacted MSAR and I am awaiting a call back. Also, I tried Privi, PMC Bronze, XM193, and some reloads and experienced these problems with all ammo types. ETA: Dave got back with me and the rifle is headed to MSAR. I'll report back when the rifle returns. |
|
Quoted:
Well here is my range report. I had several issues with the rifle and I will go into that here in a few, but don't take this as rant or a flame towards Microtech. I have contacted them and I am waiting on them to call me back. Prior to this range trip, gun was NIB, cleaned by me, and only factory mags were used (10 and 30 round mags). First thing I did was sight in my red dot which went very quickly. It was a Bushnell TRS 25 (not the best) and it took 6 rounds to do this. These rounds fired fine and so did the next 4 after that (10 round mag). I was using Privi M193 when sighting the rifle in. After that I switched toa 30 round mag with more Privi. It went bang twice just fine and then the problems started. I began having FTE, FTF, and light primer strikes. After dealing with this for the entire mag, I decided to change the gas setting, but things didn't improve. Basically after the first 10 rounds, the most I got off was 4 in a row before it would either FTF or FTE and sometimes if it did feed, it would be a light primer strike. These light strikes would leave a barely noticable mark on the primer (this problem confused me the most). Once again this not bashing the product, I know bad apples sometimes get through. I have contacted MSAR and I am awaiting a call back. Also, I tried Privi, PMC Bronze, XM193, and some reloads and experienced these problems with all ammo types. Have you tried cleaning the fire pin channel? Read somewhere someone was having similar issues and simply removed firing pin, cleaned, reinstalled and worked fine. How about the gas port. Also heard of a small piece of debris in there from the factory caused similar issues as well. Good luck. Keep us posted. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well here is my range report. I had several issues with the rifle and I will go into that here in a few, but don't take this as rant or a flame towards Microtech. I have contacted them and I am waiting on them to call me back. Prior to this range trip, gun was NIB, cleaned by me, and only factory mags were used (10 and 30 round mags). First thing I did was sight in my red dot which went very quickly. It was a Bushnell TRS 25 (not the best) and it took 6 rounds to do this. These rounds fired fine and so did the next 4 after that (10 round mag). I was using Privi M193 when sighting the rifle in. After that I switched toa 30 round mag with more Privi. It went bang twice just fine and then the problems started. I began having FTE, FTF, and light primer strikes. After dealing with this for the entire mag, I decided to change the gas setting, but things didn't improve. Basically after the first 10 rounds, the most I got off was 4 in a row before it would either FTF or FTE and sometimes if it did feed, it would be a light primer strike. These light strikes would leave a barely noticable mark on the primer (this problem confused me the most). Once again this not bashing the product, I know bad apples sometimes get through. I have contacted MSAR and I am awaiting a call back. Also, I tried Privi, PMC Bronze, XM193, and some reloads and experienced these problems with all ammo types. Have you tried cleaning the fire pin channel? Read somewhere someone was having similar issues and simply removed firing pin, cleaned, reinstalled and worked fine. How about the gas port. Also heard of a small piece of debris in there from the factory caused similar issues as well. Good luck. Keep us posted. Read those things also, but I am not noticing these with mine. They never called me back, so I called them again and left a message. Getting ready to send an email too. |
|
Got mine today - E4. Slapped my Eotech on it and went to the pit - still too much snow up here in Maine to get to the range. Did a good break-in of about 300 rounds - all federal bulk from Wal-Mart. No feeding issues other than a couple of times, during a combat reload, when you slam the mag into the well, the top round will pop out of the mag and be freely floating around in the well/chamber area - tilted the rifle and let gravity take the round out of the ejection port and then charged the weapon - not a big issue, just need to be consious of it so I won't be rough with the little fella'.
Shoots like a rabid wombat - 30rds in 5.5 - 6 seconds - I have the video on my cell - I'll try to get a link to it soon. I am happy with my purchase. L.J. |
|
Got about 700 rounds through my STG 556. First couple mags I put through it had some FTF but I think that it was more user related as I was not letting go of the charging handle correctly. No issues since I got that part down. After the break in range trip I broke the rifle down for a good cleaning. I removed the firing pin as shown on the rat workx video and the last coil of the spring is loose and coming over the T part of the pin. I have not fired since cleaning. Anyone have a similar issue with the firing pin and is this a problem that needs corrected prior to shooting again?
When breaking it down to get these pictures the spring wasn't wanting to come out very easily. If it doesn't cause a problem shooting it will definitely be a problem down the road when cleaning. http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4442/stg004.jpg http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7419/stg005.jpg |
|
Quoted:
For those who've broken bolt sleeves- does the gun become completely inoperable or degraded in reliability, then you find this when disassembling to determine the issue, or does the gun function fine, but when cleaning you notice the bolt sleeve is broken? Difficult to say. Both times I discovered a broken bolt sleeve I was using steel-cased ammo and once after 900+ rds at a carbine class where I can't pinpoint where the bolt sleeve broke. In both cases the rifle definitely didn't become inoperable but at the carbine class I started experiencing stuck casings which could just as well have been caused by 900+rds w/o cleaning. HTH... Tomac ETA: On both occasions only the leftmost prong of the bolt sleeve broke off, the other prongs stayed intact. |
| After the first cleaning I've Fired about 500 so far. Decided to clean for the second time yesterday, very clean running gun. No issues after the "magazine stuck in the gun" problem. No parts worn or broken yet. Hopefully it stays that way for several thousand rounds or so. Quickly becoming my favorite gun to shoot. |
|
New E4-only about 300 rounds so far, but going to shoot some more this weekend.
100 rounds of Fiochi .223 55gr brass (had a couple of FTF/FTL's that got caught under bolt) 90 rounds of Federal XM193 5.56 55gr brass (no problems) 90 rounds of American Tactical 5.56 62gr brass (no problems) So far I haven't had the need to change the gas settings. Going to fire another 200 rounds then clean it. Then after that I might try to cycle some wolf and brown bear that I bought through it. Will see... |
|
I own and shoot an older generation MSAR, now first off I would like to say that I would not trade my old MSAR for a new E4 or a Steyr. The only problem I ever had with my rifle was the I broke a little piece off of the trigger pack by being a heavy handed asshole. For the past six (6) months my STG has been having a vacation because I am deployed to Africa right now.
Before my current deployment my STG has just slightly over 4,900 rounds through it without any problems, no parts breakage, no unusual wear and such. I have had some FTE but they were during a couple of carbine courses that my deptartment sent me to and furnished Wolf ammo for. Utilizing Federal (quality) ammunition I have carried my STG on duty including raids and warrant service and I have always felt it was a excellent choice due to its small size and reliability. One thing that amazes me about MSAR is that after " I BROKE the trigger pack" and called them, MSAR replaced the broken trigger pack for me for free with no bitching, whining or complaints. When I return home from my current deployment I am looking to add another MSAR to my battery (for my wife) and I hope to be able to find the same model and generation as the one I have (Gen 2 with Tan stock and forward assist). So to answer the question on round count, about 4,960 give or take 40 rounds. Wolf ammunition has not been a problem except for the occassional FTE. Parts breakage has not been an issue with my rifle except when I broke the trigger pack. Customer service at MSAR is the finest I have ever experienced. |
| I have a Gen 3 STG556. Had initial problems with FTF/FTE, but I narrowed it down to the Wolf ammo I was using. I hate the stuff, but it's so dang cheap I keep buying it and hoping that it will work (I'm a slow learner). Since then I have only used brass ammo and I can't remember the last time I had any kind of malfuntion. Probably have 1500 rounds through it. Love the gun. Can't wait for the MCS to come out, I'm on the waiting list. |
Armory Sponsor