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Posted: 12/30/2009 4:18:22 AM EDT
| I am looking at adding another rifle to the collection and have no seat time behind the MSAR. I mainly shoot long range bolt guns and I do have 2 M4 D.I. Ar's plus a varmint AR. My stash of AR mags is pretty deep, I think, about 25+ mags. So I was thinking about either the E4 with optic or a sig 556classic w/ diopter and aimpoint or 1-4x in a QD mount. I have shot the sigs before and after a little trigger mod I like them and the piston reliability. But something about the MSAR keeps me looking at it. I fondled a steyr AUG about 12 yrs ago when I was in college, I thought is was pretty slick, just couldn't afford the 3500 price tag on it then. Now to the questions what type of retical is in the factory optic? What are the factory trigger pulls like, heavy ,long, creepy, alot of overtravel? Haven't ever held one, nor dried fired one to know. My bolt guns wear triggers set in the 16-20 oz range and the AR's are in the 3-4 lbs area. Just trying to get an Idea how much different the triggers are. Is there much advantage to the Gen4 over the E4? The E4 takes AR mags and it would be nice not to have to buy a bunch of new mags. Are the MSAR piston or DI? Is maintanence and fieldstrip easy like on the SIg and AR? I know of a MSAR at a shop 80 miles away and 120 miles. The farther shop, whittakers, has several different colors w/ and w/o optics of gen4 and listed an E4 no optics, these were in the 1699-1900 area online. The closer one had optics but I did not have time to hold , dryfire, or even inspect weapon; christmas shopping for others and needed to get going. Probably going there today or tomorrow to check it out. How can I tell if it is a gen4 or E4 if the employees don't know? See if an AR mag locks in or fits? Or are there better ways to determine the model. And finally why do most people get the 16" as opposed to the 20"? With the bullpup design a 20" MSAR would still be shorter then a M4 with collapsed stock. I do not plan on kicking doors down, but I do feel confident in house clearing drills with an M4. So why no love for the 20"? I appreciate all answers and sorry for any noobish questions about the MSAR. |
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With the bullpup design a 20" MSAR would still be shorter then a M4 with collapsed stock.
Correct. There are plenty of folks here that get & like (love) the 20". If you want your best ballistic performance in a package that has the same OAL as a minimum length (non-SBR) AR then that's what you get with a 20". Of course if your area of ops is just urban or in thick veg then the 16" gives adequate performance at those shorter ranges, in a SBR OAL. I prefer the 20" because it balances better for me, looks better to me and gives me the rifle-length ballistic performance I want for max versatility with the short OAL. Others like the shorter 16". The MSAR (StG & E4 versions) are piston guns. They come apart easy but different than the AR. The ergos aren't quite as good as the AR but all bullpups are like that. Is there much advantage to the Gen4 over the E4?
IMO there is no advantage of the Gen 4 vs E4. The E4 has a distinct advantage in being able to use the AR mag, plus it offers some more rail options vs the Gen 4. Some will say the 42 rd StG mag is an advantage but there are 40 rd AR mags out there & MSAR may produce a 40 rd+ AR-type mag. Now to the questions what type of retical is in the factory optic? What are the factory trigger pulls like, heavy ,long, creepy, alot of overtravel?
For max versatility get the railed top vs the factory optic. With the rail you can outfit it with the optic best suited to your needs. The factory triiger is longer & with more over-travel than the AR, but can be improved in various ways ranging from using Armoral on the trigger pack to Trigger Lite units. With some tweaks it's not too bad. IMO get a railed E4, since it has some features that the Gen 4 doesn't. My .02. |
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Get the E4 version, espeically if you are stock up on AR mags.
The only two comlpaints I have heard abotu the E4 version is that a lot of guys don't like the A2 style finger bump on the grip (easily removed with some careful dremel and file work if you really hate it) and one or two guys have found their cheek is placed precisly with the right locatin and presure to depress the bolt release, but adjusting your head slight forward or back will correct this. |
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Get the E4 version, espeically if you are stock up on AR mags. The only two comlpaints I have heard abotu the E4 version is that a lot of guys don't like the A2 style finger bump on the grip (easily removed with some careful dremel and file work if you really hate it) and one or two guys have found their cheek is placed precisly with the right locatin and presure to depress the bolt release, but adjusting your head slight forward or back will correct this. +1 on the E4. My PMags and GI mags work great... the Lancer mags don't work. I have a 20" with an EoTech. It is about 1 lb heavier than my KISS AR but it's very well balanced and comfortable to shoot. |
Going tomorrow to look at the msar that is closer to me. It is a gen4 with 1.5x scope and 16" barrel; the dealer said 1600.00 cash and it is mine, HAH. Just looking at it to check trigger pull and see what the optic is like and overall fit to me. My local dealer is hooked up with buds and I can get a 16 or 20 railed or optic equipped msar for 980-1080 plus transfer. I would like an E4 since I have all the ar mags, but the gen4 rifles just look so good with the smoke mags . If I drop the hammer on a gen4 where is the cheapest place for those mags? Buds were out and they ship the rifle with a 10 rder. What type of retical design is in the factory 1.5 optic? I guess I will find out tomorrow
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Quoted:
Going tomorrow to look at the msar that is closer to me. It is a gen4 with 1.5x scope and 16" barrel; the dealer said 1600.00 cash and it is mine, HAH. Just looking at it to check trigger pull and see what the optic is like and overall fit to me. My local dealer is hooked up with buds and I can get a 16 or 20 railed or optic equipped msar for 980-1080 plus transfer. I would like an E4 since I have all the ar mags, but the gen4 rifles just look so good with the smoke mags . If I drop the hammer on a gen4 where is the cheapest place for those mags? Buds were out and they ship the rifle with a 10 rder. What type of retical design is in the factory 1.5 optic? I guess I will find out tomorrow
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Thanks Melvin, I got to handle one today and I liked it, but the optic was way too low for me. Usually on my bolt guns or AR's I use really low mounts compared to what most guys run and get along just fine. The optic on this MSAR was just too low, I had to cant the rifle and cock my head over quite abit to get a full sight picture. I realize this retical design is the same as an aug but it looks like MSAR could have been a little more original and put a true CQB type retical in the 16" guns and maybe a bdc type retical in the 20" guns, something along the line of an acog retical, and then sold a true aug type retical aftermarket scope for a little extra coin. The trigger was a little on the heavy side, enough that I would be interested in a trigger tamer or trigger light. Which is better and where can I order one? I plan on getting some mags from Ratworx, best price, just have to suck it up and pay tax on it since I live in IL. now. I suppose Ratworx doesn't sell any trigger lightening devices does he?
I have an eotech 512 on one midlength AR and an aimpoint compc on another will have to try each out to see which I like. Anybody make a true 1-3 or 1-4 that is not a bank killer, no short dot or loopy CQB. Had a millet DMS and it was close to a true 1x varible but it was pretty long and would look kinda ugly on the MSAR. Sidenote, the gunshop had a FN fs2000 hanging on the wall next to the MSAR and it sure wasn't as nice in it's lines, kinda ugly compared to the MSAR. |
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Quoted:
Thanks Melvin, I got to handle one today and I liked it, but the optic was way too low for me. Usually on my bolt guns or AR's I use really low mounts compared to what most guys run and get along just fine. The optic on this MSAR was just too low, I had to cant the rifle and cock my head over quite abit to get a full sight picture. The optic for the E4 variant is highter up than on the STG variant. I ordered from Ratworx today, and though I ordered an Stg556, they told me "we can do that, but be advised it'll have an E4 optic since that's all we have now. But that's probably a good thing because the E4 sits higher up, and most folks prefer that." You might want to consider Ratworx and ask them to put an E4 optic on an Stg. Also, Ratworx includes 5x 30rd mags with the rifle purchase, so that really narrows the gap between them and Bud's. |
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