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OK, USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 10:37:20 PM EDT
I loaded up a batch of a few hundred 45 auto rounds today. Mixed headstamp and loaded 2-3 times before. I had 4 cases split at the mouth while belling or seating rounds.
I noticed they were all Winchester cases that split. I was under the impression that 45 cases lasted quite a few reloads. I've got 357/44 brass that has been loaded more than a doezen times. Mostly Starline though. So I guess my question is, is Winchester known to crack or wear out faster than other brands? |
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USA
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Posted: 5/5/2024 10:43:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: SteelonSteel]
[#1]
Likely a bad batch of brass alloy. It happens. I find it happens more often in nickeled cases. Cases get dipped in a pickling solution to etch the brass prior to the nickel plating, I guess sometimes they soak to long or aren’t rinsed correctly.
ETA I have range pickups that are WW1 era .45 acp brass. I loaded them. 
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SD, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 12:21:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#2]
Normally 45 auto cases have a really, really long service life. I saw one test where they stopped at 45 or 50 reloads on some cases because the head was getting visibly deformed, otherwise the brass was still reloading and functioning perfectly. Sometimes bad cases happen.
Some other causes can be an out of spec sizing die. According to the SAMMI drawing, a 45 acp body diameter should be .473" - .006" tolerance. So if your sizing die is sizing your cases under .467", then your die is out of spec and overworking your brass. Another cause is probably not the case, but soaking your brass in something such as vinegar can weaken them. Usually a quick wash doesn't hurt, but if you are soaking them for say 30+ minutes, that is not helping. More than likely you just got unlucky. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 2:01:19 AM EDT
[#3]
How old are they? How long were they stored?
Note - this is not about how many times they were fired but the chronological age of the brass? |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 2:06:39 AM EDT
[#4]
How much are you belling the case mouth? Over belling the case mouth will reduce case life significantly.
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OK, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 9:08:42 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: How old are they? How long were they stored? Note - this is not about how many times they were fired but the chronological age of the brass? Tough to say. I organize my brass by how many times it's been loaded and mix it. So it could be up to 12 years old. Most likely just a few years old though. Stored indoors in a climate controlled room in a plastic coffee can. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 10:00:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pepe-lepew: How much are you belling the case mouth? Over belling the case mouth will reduce case life significantly. Was thinking the same. Moreso with revolver rounds with a roll crimp, but even a taper crimp is working the brass if the flare is excessive. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:04:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: Was thinking the same. Moreso with revolver rounds with a roll crimp, but even a taper crimp is working the brass if the flare is excessive. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: Originally Posted By pepe-lepew: How much are you belling the case mouth? Over belling the case mouth will reduce case life significantly. Was thinking the same. Moreso with revolver rounds with a roll crimp, but even a taper crimp is working the brass if the flare is excessive. Very minimal. Just enough to barely start the bullet and not scrape the plating off. Like I said, I always try to work my brass as little as possible for longevity. That's why I was so shocked to have that many failures with the Win brass. None of the other headstamps had issues with the same die setting/loading. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:35:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Try a Lyman M die for belling. It will change your world.
 Having loaded win brass for a long time, you must of got a bad lot. Win brass, belled correctly, lasts a long time in 45 ACP. |
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Posted: 5/6/2024 1:50:03 PM EDT
[#9]
I have some 45 ACP brass (TZZ Match) from back in 1989. I still see some that go in my autoloader brass bucket for reloading. I bought some spam can RA 42 headstamp ammo back in early 2000's from sportsmans guide, and that brass is still going pretty good through my autoloader brass supply. I have plenty of brass that the headstamp is barely visible. That brass that cracks the most is nickel plated stuff. I figure I have gotten my money out 45 ACP brass shoot it till splits or gets lost. Pretty much like 38 special brass. Revolver brass is easier to keep track of. Sometimes bad batches of brass pop up. 45 ACP brass is cheap enough not to worry about.
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 8:31:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Where these headstamped WINCHESTER ? From 230 gr ball load. I have had a few. My son bough some and the split the entire case length
I have tons of Winchester brass mostly from 185 gr wadcutter match. Not one has ever split. I also have tons of mixed range brass picked up in that time period. Some have been used so much the headstamp is not readable. Lot of 1970-1990 military loads. Primer pockets are fine. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/6/2024 8:56:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#11]
OP is having WINCHESTER pistol case failures.
I am having WINCHESTER rifle case failures (50%). Another poster (2grimjim) is having WINCHESTER primer cup failures (10%). I'm seeing a pattern here. How about you? |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 5/7/2024 2:12:59 AM EDT
[#12]
typical junk winchester brass and ammo
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Posted: 5/7/2024 11:29:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tommee-boy-72: typical junk winchester brass and ammo I like Win brass and will not load FC rifle brass. (gone over why too many times) Every seasoned reloader has their likes and dislikes. 
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IA, USA
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Posted: 5/7/2024 3:41:55 PM EDT
[#14]
your right. But I have seen way more junk Winchester brass than all others. I pick up over 3000 lbs of brass a year at our range. I see what is junk and what is good. I see lots of FC 556 that has dead primers. I see mainly Win brass that is split. And not just one caliber it is the same across their whole line. I also see Win brass that the head diameter is smaller in most calibers. So then it leaves a ring around the web almost having a case head failure. Almost all high pressure FLAT primers I see are Win. Rifle and pistol. The round that I see that has the most problems overall is 350 Legend. It does not matter who's make it is. I find them with blown primers. Hornady the most out of them.
The volume I see over and over year after year says to me that Win has more problems. |
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Posted: 5/7/2024 3:55:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Blowout]
[#15]
Very interesting perspective above..
Typically when I find a 45acp split in the case it occurs about where the base of the bullet would be seated. I find them after firing and not when reloading/seating a new bullet. Might see it after sizing though. The ram feels too easy to push down and that triggers an inspection of the case. The split might be 1/4” or less but it’s pretty obvious. Can’t recall a split at the case mouth w/45 though. I don’t separate 45 brass by age or times fired, just inspect each before reloading them again. I’ve got some 50+ year old brass mixed in there. Next time I find a split I’ll check the head stamp. |
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Posted: 5/7/2024 10:52:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pepe-lepew: How much are you belling the case mouth? Over belling the case mouth will reduce case life significantly. <This. You only need the case mouth opened up just enough to accept a bullet. |
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