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Posted: 11/19/2023 12:12:58 PM EDT
[#1]
Well crap now I gotta get one.
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Posted: 11/19/2023 12:15:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Damn man you forced me to go to Harbor Freight! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/578900/IMG_1047_jpeg-3032919.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By ACDer: 12 dollar Apache case from Harbor Freight works great. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/69887/20231119_080452_jpg-3032772.JPG Damn man you forced me to go to Harbor Freight! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/578900/IMG_1047_jpeg-3032919.JPG Yea this threw me. When I go to HF and look at their gun cases, they are nice, but at $150+, still rather premium priced, so I wrote them off for the most part, and stopped looking. Now I'm kind of interested - $12 for that case is pretty darned good! |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 1:20:09 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jwlaxton: If you configure it to prompt for projectile weight, then export a .csv the muzzle energy and power factor is included. I don't know if you can make it show on the screen, because I like the default and haven't tried to change it. No shit? I’ll have to try exporting it. Thanks for that. |
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Posted: 11/19/2023 1:21:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Yea this threw me. When I go to HF and look at their gun cases, they are nice, but at $150+, still rather premium priced, so I wrote them off for the most part, and stopped looking. Now I'm kind of interested - $12 for that case is pretty darned good! The larger pistol cases are $45-$60 or so and let’s face it, most of us don’t need a pelican. I’m not throwing it off the top of a building. (For reference, the pelican that is the same size as the one I just bought is almost $70) |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 9:45:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cb4017: I believe it's able to compute muzzle velocity. The velocities the Garmin comes up with, compared to my LabRadar, are almost identical. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cb4017: Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Does it report out the distance at which the speed was measured? That first 25 or 50 yards is usually a significant drop (-50 to -100 fps) from the muzzle velocity, especially for supersonic projectiles. I believe it's able to compute muzzle velocity. The velocities the Garmin comes up with, compared to my LabRadar, are almost identical. I believe the Garmin and LR are both taking readings at whatever distance the projectile actually enters the doppler beam. With the LR and Garmin usually being set up between 3-15" off to the side of the barrel, I presume this would put that intersection a few yards downrange. I don't think there's any calculations going on in the LR or Garmin to take the captured velocity at "X distance from muzzle" and then add some fps to assume the true muzzle velocity. That would seem to 1. not be needed as that difference between muzzle and muzzle +X yds is probably already lost in the ES/SD of most loads, and 2. be impossible to figure out as different projectiles are going to decelerate at different rates. For instance, I don't think taking the reading at "X distance from muzzle" (which will not be constant) and then adding Y% fps to it would be a reliable way to get a no shit "at the muzzle" velocity. I'm sure others who are smarter than I can confirm or refute this, and I look forward to how the industry and consumer base reacts to this new product. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 10:45:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: I believe the Garmin and LR are both taking readings at whatever distance the projectile actually enters the doppler beam. With the LR and Garmin usually being set up between 3-15" off to the side of the barrel, I presume this would put that intersection a few yards downrange. I don't think there's any calculations going on in the LR or Garmin to take the captured velocity at "X distance from muzzle" and then add some fps to assume the true muzzle velocity. That would seem to 1. not be needed as that difference between muzzle and muzzle +X yds is probably already lost in the ES/SD of most loads, and 2. be impossible to figure out as different projectiles are going to decelerate at different rates. For instance, I don't think taking the reading at "X distance from muzzle" (which will not be constant) and then adding Y% fps to it would be a reliable way to get a no shit "at the muzzle" velocity. I'm sure others who are smarter than I can confirm or refute this, and I look forward to how the industry and consumer base reacts to this new product. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Originally Posted By cb4017: Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Does it report out the distance at which the speed was measured? That first 25 or 50 yards is usually a significant drop (-50 to -100 fps) from the muzzle velocity, especially for supersonic projectiles. I believe it's able to compute muzzle velocity. The velocities the Garmin comes up with, compared to my LabRadar, are almost identical. I believe the Garmin and LR are both taking readings at whatever distance the projectile actually enters the doppler beam. With the LR and Garmin usually being set up between 3-15" off to the side of the barrel, I presume this would put that intersection a few yards downrange. I don't think there's any calculations going on in the LR or Garmin to take the captured velocity at "X distance from muzzle" and then add some fps to assume the true muzzle velocity. That would seem to 1. not be needed as that difference between muzzle and muzzle +X yds is probably already lost in the ES/SD of most loads, and 2. be impossible to figure out as different projectiles are going to decelerate at different rates. For instance, I don't think taking the reading at "X distance from muzzle" (which will not be constant) and then adding Y% fps to it would be a reliable way to get a no shit "at the muzzle" velocity. I'm sure others who are smarter than I can confirm or refute this, and I look forward to how the industry and consumer base reacts to this new product. Indeed. One thing to be aware of is these devices back calculate velocity to the face of the unit. They do a very very good job of it. So if you mount it 10" behind the muzzle, you will be reported a muzzle velocity that's a tiny bit faster than true, because it thinks your muzzle is even with it. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 11:02:45 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: I believe the Garmin and LR are both taking readings at whatever distance the projectile actually enters the doppler beam. With the LR and Garmin usually being set up between 3-15" off to the side of the barrel, I presume this would put that intersection a few yards downrange. I don't think there's any calculations going on in the LR or Garmin to take the captured velocity at "X distance from muzzle" and then add some fps to assume the true muzzle velocity. That would seem to 1. not be needed as that difference between muzzle and muzzle +X yds is probably already lost in the ES/SD of most loads, and 2. be impossible to figure out as different projectiles are going to decelerate at different rates. For instance, I don't think taking the reading at "X distance from muzzle" (which will not be constant) and then adding Y% fps to it would be a reliable way to get a no shit "at the muzzle" velocity. I'm sure others who are smarter than I can confirm or refute this, and I look forward to how the industry and consumer base reacts to this new product. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Originally Posted By cb4017: Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Does it report out the distance at which the speed was measured? That first 25 or 50 yards is usually a significant drop (-50 to -100 fps) from the muzzle velocity, especially for supersonic projectiles. I believe it's able to compute muzzle velocity. The velocities the Garmin comes up with, compared to my LabRadar, are almost identical. I believe the Garmin and LR are both taking readings at whatever distance the projectile actually enters the doppler beam. With the LR and Garmin usually being set up between 3-15" off to the side of the barrel, I presume this would put that intersection a few yards downrange. I don't think there's any calculations going on in the LR or Garmin to take the captured velocity at "X distance from muzzle" and then add some fps to assume the true muzzle velocity. That would seem to 1. not be needed as that difference between muzzle and muzzle +X yds is probably already lost in the ES/SD of most loads, and 2. be impossible to figure out as different projectiles are going to decelerate at different rates. For instance, I don't think taking the reading at "X distance from muzzle" (which will not be constant) and then adding Y% fps to it would be a reliable way to get a no shit "at the muzzle" velocity. I'm sure others who are smarter than I can confirm or refute this, and I look forward to how the industry and consumer base reacts to this new product. I'm pretty certain they do. I would think projectiles are tracked long enough for the device to extrapolate MV at the device position. My LabRadar reports MV and 5 other velocities down range at distances I set in. From the LabRadar website. "LabRadar will report the muzzle velocity and up to five other velocities at the distances that you select in increments of one (1). You will be able to select these distances prior to shooting. You can select feet, yards, meters, etc. Velocities can also be reported in metric and standard values." The Garmin MVs are almost identical to the LR MVs. From the Garmin manual. "Position Offset: There is no need to enter a position offset manually. The Xero C1 chronograph uses an advanced algorithm that does not need position input to measure true muzzle velocity." The Garmin is very simple to set up and use. As mentioned, the only advantage the LR had was being able to provide downrange velocities. For me that was neat but not something I really used. I wouldn't be surprised if the Garmin had a firmware/software update sometime in the future to do the same thing. |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 12:23:45 PM EDT
[#8]
I read over on snipershide.com about the pelican 1040 micro being a perfect fit for the xero, so I ordered one of those. They are $29 on Amazon. Works perfectly. Nice and compact too.
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Posted: 11/20/2023 2:36:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tug153: I read over on snipershide.com about the pelican 1040 micro being a perfect fit for the xero, so I ordered one of those. They are $29 on Amazon. Works perfectly. Nice and compact too. Does that house the tripod as well or just the unit? |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 3:07:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Firefly1032: Does that house the tripod as well or just the unit? Looking at the dimensions I’d say barely. Not enough padding for my tastes. Especially in thickness. This is the Apache 1800 case. Dimensions are quite a bit larger.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/20/2023 4:47:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Tug153]
[#11]
Tripod and unit. Plenty of room and padding.
I will try and get some pictures later. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 8:46:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Indeed. One thing to be aware of is these devices back calculate velocity to the face of the unit. They do a very very good job of it. So if you mount it 10" behind the muzzle, you will be reported a muzzle velocity that's a tiny bit faster than true, because it thinks your muzzle is even with it. Originally Posted By cb4017: I'm pretty certain they do. I would think projectiles are tracked long enough for the device to extrapolate MV at the device position. My LabRadar reports MV and 5 other velocities down range at distances I set in. From the LabRadar website. "LabRadar will report the muzzle velocity and up to five other velocities at the distances that you select in increments of one (1). You will be able to select these distances prior to shooting. You can select feet, yards, meters, etc. Velocities can also be reported in metric and standard values." The Garmin MVs are almost identical to the LR MVs. From the Garmin manual. "Position Offset: There is no need to enter a position offset manually. The Xero C1 chronograph uses an advanced algorithm that does not need position input to measure true muzzle velocity." The Garmin is very simple to set up and use. As mentioned, the only advantage the LR had was being able to provide downrange velocities. For me that was neat but not something I really used. I wouldn't be surprised if the Garmin had a firmware/software update sometime in the future to do the same thing. I'm just not sure how the LR or Garmin units would be able to accurately figure out true, no joke, at the muzzle velocity by getting a reading Xyds downrange and adding some velocity to the figure they display. Unless you had the LR or G unit positioned in the exact same position behind and to the side of the muzzle, it's going to detect the projectile at a different distance from the actual muzzle each time you're out. I guess the Garmin unit, using the rail mount, could be positioned in the same spot on a particular rifle time after time, but I think it's just a case of the difference between "muzzle" and muzzle+Xyds" being so miniscule to be of no meaningful impact on the data. I'm happy to be proven wrong if LR or G have put out information which specifically covers this, and they explain how they're getting the velocity at "muzzle+Xyds" downrange and then 'mathing it out' to generate as assessed velocity the projectile was moving the instant it left the muzzle. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 9:23:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: I'm just not sure how the LR or Garmin units would be able to accurately figure out true, no joke, at the muzzle velocity by getting a reading Xyds downrange and adding some velocity to the figure they display. Unless you had the LR or G unit positioned in the exact same position behind and to the side of the muzzle, it's going to detect the projectile at a different distance from the actual muzzle each time you're out. I guess the Garmin unit, using the rail mount, could be positioned in the same spot on a particular rifle time after time, but I think it's just a case of the difference between "muzzle" and muzzle+Xyds" being so miniscule to be of no meaningful impact on the data. I'm happy to be proven wrong if LR or G have put out information which specifically covers this, and they explain how they're getting the velocity at "muzzle+Xyds" downrange and then 'mathing it out' to generate as assessed velocity the projectile was moving the instant it left the muzzle. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Indeed. One thing to be aware of is these devices back calculate velocity to the face of the unit. They do a very very good job of it. So if you mount it 10" behind the muzzle, you will be reported a muzzle velocity that's a tiny bit faster than true, because it thinks your muzzle is even with it. Originally Posted By cb4017: I'm pretty certain they do. I would think projectiles are tracked long enough for the device to extrapolate MV at the device position. My LabRadar reports MV and 5 other velocities down range at distances I set in. From the LabRadar website. "LabRadar will report the muzzle velocity and up to five other velocities at the distances that you select in increments of one (1). You will be able to select these distances prior to shooting. You can select feet, yards, meters, etc. Velocities can also be reported in metric and standard values." The Garmin MVs are almost identical to the LR MVs. From the Garmin manual. "Position Offset: There is no need to enter a position offset manually. The Xero C1 chronograph uses an advanced algorithm that does not need position input to measure true muzzle velocity." The Garmin is very simple to set up and use. As mentioned, the only advantage the LR had was being able to provide downrange velocities. For me that was neat but not something I really used. I wouldn't be surprised if the Garmin had a firmware/software update sometime in the future to do the same thing. I'm just not sure how the LR or Garmin units would be able to accurately figure out true, no joke, at the muzzle velocity by getting a reading Xyds downrange and adding some velocity to the figure they display. Unless you had the LR or G unit positioned in the exact same position behind and to the side of the muzzle, it's going to detect the projectile at a different distance from the actual muzzle each time you're out. I guess the Garmin unit, using the rail mount, could be positioned in the same spot on a particular rifle time after time, but I think it's just a case of the difference between "muzzle" and muzzle+Xyds" being so miniscule to be of no meaningful impact on the data. I'm happy to be proven wrong if LR or G have put out information which specifically covers this, and they explain how they're getting the velocity at "muzzle+Xyds" downrange and then 'mathing it out' to generate as assessed velocity the projectile was moving the instant it left the muzzle. It's not so questionable when you study the LR data. LR collects about 50 readings that show both speed and distance. It does a good noise dampened curve fit and extrapolates back to its face. And then does the trigonometry based on your specified offset. It's actually quite accurate on the reported MV. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 1:33:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: It's not so questionable when you study the LR data. LR collects about 50 readings that show both speed and distance. It does a good noise dampened curve fit and extrapolates back to its face. And then does the trigonometry based on your specified offset. It's actually quite accurate on the reported MV. How do you know any of that, especially the "quite accurate" part? Is it given in Labradar's information somewhere? Do you work for Labradar and are presenting insider (proprietary) info? Absent either of those, this seems speculative. How does Garmin get to a true muzzle velocity, given that they measure somewhere down range and present only one velocity? The variation in velocity lost in the first 25 yards is large when looking at arrows to handgun bullets to rifle bullets. I'm glad people are happy with their new purchases but let's talk again in a year or two. After all, I am seeing more disgruntled Labradar users reporting in this thread than in any other thread. It will be interesting to touch base again once the"honeymoon" is over. P.S. - I was so very unhappy with my optical chronographs, I almost threw them away. I managed, finally, to figure out how to set them up and have them operate reliably. Whether they are accurate, or how accurate they are, is as-yet unanswered. I have to take them to the lab to find that out and haven't done so. There was and is, no way I was going to to spend $800 for a Labradar or $600 to get an "interesting" but largely useless piece of information. P.P.S. - Yes, I know, I know, it's a hobby - enjoy it as you please. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 1:53:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: How do you know any of that, especially the "quite accurate" part? Is it given in Labradar's information somewhere? Do you work for Labradar and are presenting insider (proprietary) info? Absent either of those, this seems speculative. How does Garmin get to a true muzzle velocity, given that they measure somewhere down range and present only one velocity? The variation in velocity lost in the first 25 yards is large when looking at arrows to handgun bullets to rifle bullets. I'm glad people are happy with their new purchases but let's talk again in a year or two. After all, I am seeing more disgruntled Labradar users reporting in this thread than in any other thread. It will be interesting to touch base again once the"honeymoon" is over. P.S. - I was so very unhappy with my optical chronographs, I almost threw them away. I managed, finally, to figure out how to set them up and have them operate reliably. Whether they are accurate, or how accurate they are, is as-yet unanswered. I have to take them to the lab to find that out and haven't done so. There was and is, no way I was going to to spend $800 for a Labradar or $600 to get an "interesting" but largely useless piece of information. Useless information? Hardly. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 1:56:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: How do you know any of that, especially the "quite accurate" part? Is it given in Labradar's information somewhere? Do you work for Labradar and are presenting insider (proprietary) info? Absent either of those, this seems speculative. How does Garmin get to a true muzzle velocity, given that they measure somewhere down range and present only one velocity? The variation in velocity lost in the first 25 yards is large when looking at arrows to handgun bullets to rifle bullets. I'm glad people are happy with their new purchases but let's talk again in a year or two. After all, I am seeing more disgruntled Labradar users reporting in this thread than in any other thread. I'm not unhappy with my LabRadar. To use it though, requires lugging the unit and a tripod to the range. With the Garmin, if shooting off a bench or prone, I just throw it in a pocket on my shooting bag. For me, the Garmin is simply a better form factor. As to accuracy of the MV, I've noticed a few things. With my old Oehler sky screen chronograph, I would typically set it up 5 to 8 yards in front of the muzzle. Probably closer to 5 yards, but I never measured it exactly. When I first bought my LabRadar, I compared the two and saw the LabRadar was roughly 20 fps faster. I'm going from memory, and it was a while back. On my Labradar, I tend to capture a point 10 yards in front of the muzzle. It tends to be around 30 fps slower than the MV. With my Garmin and LabRadar side by side, the difference in MV averaged out 3 fps different, with the LabRadar being faster. When I did the comparison, both were about 8" behind the muzzle. This also makes sense, since the LabRadar expects the barrel to be even with it, where the Garmin expects to be 5" to 15" behind the muzzle. The muzzle velocity range for the above tends to be in the 2200 fps range to 2800 fps. I haven't constructed experiments to prove anything, these are just observations I've made through using the various equipment. For me it seems to add up to both being pretty accurate in regard to MV. I've seen more people report results that don't seem right, with equipment other than a LabRadar. I also have no immediate plans to sell my LabRadar. I like to have backup equipment, and it still offers the velocity track over distance, which the Garmin doesn't |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 2:06:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Useless information? Hardly. All but entirely! It is interesting to me, though. I think the most important piece of information you can get from a chronograph is the standard deviation of velocity, not the velocity itself. Having an accurate value for that does require shooting quite a few rounds, though. I have observed that most people do not do that. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 3:21:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: How do you know any of that, especially the "quite accurate" part? Is it given in Labradar's information somewhere? Do you work for Labradar and are presenting insider (proprietary) info? Absent either of those, this seems speculative. How does Garmin get to a true muzzle velocity, given that they measure somewhere down range and present only one velocity? The variation in velocity lost in the first 25 yards is large when looking at arrows to handgun bullets to rifle bullets. I'm glad people are happy with their new purchases but let's talk again in a year or two. After all, I am seeing more disgruntled Labradar users reporting in this thread than in any other thread. It will be interesting to touch base again once the"honeymoon" is over. P.S. - I was so very unhappy with my optical chronographs, I almost threw them away. I managed, finally, to figure out how to set them up and have them operate reliably. Whether they are accurate, or how accurate they are, is as-yet unanswered. I have to take them to the lab to find that out and haven't done so. There was and is, no way I was going to to spend $800 for a Labradar or $600 to get an "interesting" but largely useless piece of information. P.P.S. - Yes, I know, I know, it's a hobby - enjoy it as you please. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: Originally Posted By lazyengineer: It's not so questionable when you study the LR data. LR collects about 50 readings that show both speed and distance. It does a good noise dampened curve fit and extrapolates back to its face. And then does the trigonometry based on your specified offset. It's actually quite accurate on the reported MV. How do you know any of that, especially the "quite accurate" part? Is it given in Labradar's information somewhere? Do you work for Labradar and are presenting insider (proprietary) info? Absent either of those, this seems speculative. How does Garmin get to a true muzzle velocity, given that they measure somewhere down range and present only one velocity? The variation in velocity lost in the first 25 yards is large when looking at arrows to handgun bullets to rifle bullets. I'm glad people are happy with their new purchases but let's talk again in a year or two. After all, I am seeing more disgruntled Labradar users reporting in this thread than in any other thread. It will be interesting to touch base again once the"honeymoon" is over. P.S. - I was so very unhappy with my optical chronographs, I almost threw them away. I managed, finally, to figure out how to set them up and have them operate reliably. Whether they are accurate, or how accurate they are, is as-yet unanswered. I have to take them to the lab to find that out and haven't done so. There was and is, no way I was going to to spend $800 for a Labradar or $600 to get an "interesting" but largely useless piece of information. P.P.S. - Yes, I know, I know, it's a hobby - enjoy it as you please. ? That seemed a bit passionate of a reply for here in a tech forum. Accuracy is easy, as it's been documented calibrated against known-good high-end industrial systems, and also agree's well with MagnetoSpeeds, which are cumbersome and limited, but quite accurate (it's hard not to be, with that tech). As to how it works, have you not studied a LabRadar SD card trace data? It's both obvious and not controversial how it works and why it works well, when you look at and graph the data dump. Since it knows precisely how far each bullet is when measured, and it has a long series of those; it's not difficult to extrapolate back to zero with obvious and easy accuracy. As to being paid - heh, no - I don't have YouTube channel; nobody pays me. They probably should - but then, would I really be as credible and accurate if they did? Anyway - ... have fun; hope you have a great Holiday. |
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Posted: 11/21/2023 5:32:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#19]
It's a technical forum, is it not? No "passion" involved in asking questions about the source of the info. IMO, more people should ask such questions. So, are you saying they use time delay to get distance and Doppler shift to get velocity?
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Posted: 11/21/2023 10:47:07 PM EDT
[#20]
I got my tracking # today. Im excited to see if this lives up to the hype
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Posted: 11/22/2023 8:06:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: towerofpower94]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Useless information? Hardly. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By Trollslayer: How do you know any of that, especially the "quite accurate" part? Is it given in Labradar's information somewhere? Do you work for Labradar and are presenting insider (proprietary) info? Absent either of those, this seems speculative. How does Garmin get to a true muzzle velocity, given that they measure somewhere down range and present only one velocity? The variation in velocity lost in the first 25 yards is large when looking at arrows to handgun bullets to rifle bullets. I'm glad people are happy with their new purchases but let's talk again in a year or two. After all, I am seeing more disgruntled Labradar users reporting in this thread than in any other thread. It will be interesting to touch base again once the"honeymoon" is over. P.S. - I was so very unhappy with my optical chronographs, I almost threw them away. I managed, finally, to figure out how to set them up and have them operate reliably. Whether they are accurate, or how accurate they are, is as-yet unanswered. I have to take them to the lab to find that out and haven't done so. There was and is, no way I was going to to spend $800 for a Labradar or $600 to get an "interesting" but largely useless piece of information. Useless information? Hardly. Agreed. Even if it's a few FPS off of the actual velocity of the projectile the instant it left the muzzle, my LR has given me loads of useful velocity data which, when paired with an accurate BC, has helped with proper elevation dials/holds at distances up to and including a mile. I've never hooked my LR up to a computer to see what the more detailed readouts entail, FWIW. ETA: and it's ridiculously superior to an optical chronograph placed downrange. That thing was the scourge of my existence.... |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 2:05:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94: ETA: and it's ridiculously superior to an optical chronograph placed downrange. That thing was the scourge of my existence.... This is truth! |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 2:09:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Mostly but not quite. A LR stores a more complete data set, which allows BC calculations, and other manipulation. But really, aside from that, there is almost no reason buy a LR over the Garmin today, as the Garmin is obviously much more modernized. And likely has more reliable triggering. If I could even straight up trade my LR for a Garmin, I probably would. I can't say there's a lot of reason to dump an existing LR to switch, at a loss though. I will say, shame on LabRadar. They sat on their haunches for years riding their monopoly, with no product improvements or price decreases. They left the door wide open for someone to finally eat their lunch. Amd frankly, shame on RCBS/dillon/Hornady for not being the ones, and instead letting a GPS mapping company be the one. Though, in fairness. It was likely easiest for Garmin, who has the economy of scale and people on staff with titles like "Chip Foundry Relations Manager" already, and who basically banged this out as another day in the office. Also, props to Garmin, someone in the development team and someone at the Stage-Gate sign-off level, is obviously a shooter. Garmin probably started down these shooting and archery projects that they have when they realized that handheld GPS is getting shredded by smartphones with Gaia or OnX. |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 10:00:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m1aconvert: I got my tracking # today. Im excited to see if this lives up to the hype Where did you order from? |
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Posted: 11/22/2023 10:26:05 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FightingHellfish: Garmin probably started down these shooting and archery projects that they have when they realized that handheld GPS is getting shredded by smartphones with Gaia or OnX. Doubt it. They have a very diverse product range. They do quite well, it’s unlikely that they put a chrono out to save their falling revenue. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2023 10:42:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer: snip snip ... After all, I am seeing more disgruntled Labradar users reporting in this thread than in any other thread. It will be interesting to touch base again once the"honeymoon" is over. If you separated the wheat from the chafe in the labradar threads...... the app and Bluetooth only worked some of the time for some of the people , most people needed an aftermarket trigger for it to work reliably etc etc... It was not perfect but people paid a lot of money for them and that makes them emotionally attached..... compared to setting up an optical chrono it's flat better Garmin been around more than a day and has survived i doubt labradar will as they had seemingly zero interest on improving their product. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/22/2023 11:45:52 PM EDT
[#27]
My new mantra:
It's a hobby. It's a hobby. It's a hobby. The nearly instantaneous set up has value, even to a curmudgeon like me. I've gotten used to setting up my chronograph but I have an atypical range and atypical access. |
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Posted: 11/23/2023 2:56:10 AM EDT
[#28]
I have guns that cost way more than a chronograph that I rarely shoot. A reloading tool that is easy to use quick to set up and will work with all my firearms, for me it was an easy decision. Spend the money, even if it eats into my gun money for my next purchase.
Even though I sold it, the Labrador was easy worth the coin. I'm hopeful the Garmin will be as well. I'm off to the range tomorrow and not looking forward to setting up the optical chrony...... |
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ON, CAN
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Posted: 11/24/2023 11:12:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Got mine yesterday...a mere $900 Trudeau Bucks after taxes. Anyway, taking it out tomorrow to see if it lives up to the hype.
Up until yesterday I was using a Chrony F1 Chronograph so this should be a usability upgrade at a minimum. |
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ON, CAN
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Posted: 11/27/2023 3:47:03 PM EDT
[#30]
Well, I deployed my Xero C1 Pro at the range the other day and I must say that I am utterly impressed by this. The ease of use is borderline short bus levels of simplicity, its apparent accuracy I can't besmirch and I had no failures whatsoever with it. I rarely walk away utterly impressed by something that's generated as much hype as this unit has, but I have to admit that it does in fact live up to it.
There is one but, however. I am a man who repairs and maintains his own equipment. This unit has a non-user replaceable battery inside. At a certain point this battery will die. It may even expand as many of these batteries do when they age. This is an expensive bit of kit that I can't repair something as prosaic as a damned battery. It's not a deal killer, but this is another example of a company making the decision that either only they will be allowed to repair something, or that it won't be repaired at all. That means, philosophically, you do not own this even though you paid for it. All that said, it is a very impressive unit and I can't see how current offerings of Labradar or Magnetospeed compete against this thing, except on the basis of price. |
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Posted: 11/27/2023 3:59:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GunsNotPuns: Well, I deployed my Xero C1 Pro at the range the other day and I must say that I am utterly impressed by this. The ease of use is borderline short bus levels of simplicity, its apparent accuracy I can't besmirch and I had no failures whatsoever with it. I rarely walk away utterly impressed by something that's generated as much hype as this unit has, but I have to admit that it does in fact live up to it. There is one but, however. I am a man who repairs and maintains his own equipment. This unit has a non-user replaceable battery inside. At a certain point this battery will die. It may even expand as many of these batteries do when they age. This is an expensive bit of kit that I can't repair something as prosaic as a damned battery. It's not a deal killer, but this is another example of a company making the decision that either only they will be allowed to repair something, or that it won't be repaired at all. That means, philosophically, you do not own this even though you paid for it. All that said, it is a very impressive unit and I can't see how current offerings of Labradar or Magnetospeed compete against this thing, except on the basis of price. FWIW, Li battery tech continues to improve. I'd guess it has the latest Li-Fe technology, which is quite a bit safer that the previous Li-Polymer, and will likely last longer. Also, "removing this sticker voids warrenty" is easily removed. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/27/2023 4:37:28 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: FWIW, Li battery tech continues to improve. I'd guess it has the latest Li-Fe technology, which is quite a bit safer that the previous Li-Polymer, and will likely last longer. Also, "removing this sticker voids warrenty" is easily removed. Unfortunately still Li-ion per their documentation. Can you run it while it charges? One way to lengthen the lifecycle of the battery. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/27/2023 7:41:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Can it be run from an external power source? If so, when the battery dies, do that.
Don't keep it on trickle charge. Don't run it down to below 20% state of charge. Keep it in the 20-80 SOC range to maximize cycle life. |
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ON, CAN
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Posted: 11/27/2023 9:00:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer:Also, "removing this sticker voids warrenty" is easily removed. That is true and it's (presumably) not difficult to open it...I only eye-balled it but it looks like its just T4 or smaller screws holding it together. I have a feeling, though, that its major surgery to get at the battery. When Garmin tells me the battery isn't user replaceable, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Anyway, I don't like it but I can grudgingly live with it. Hopefully I can power it with an external bank when the battery finally meets its maker. |
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Posted: 11/29/2023 4:46:19 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dyeager535: Unfortunately still Li-ion per their documentation. Can you run it while it charges? One way to lengthen the lifecycle of the battery. Doesn't look like you can. Below is from the troubleshooting section in the owners manual: The chronograph does not turn on Make sure the chronograph is within the approved operating or charging temperature range (Specifications). Charge the chronograph for 4 hours (Charging the Device (xero C1)). If the chronograph does not turn on, disconnect the charger, and charge it for another 4 hours. |
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Posted: 11/29/2023 8:56:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GunsNotPuns: That is true and it's (presumably) not difficult to open it...I only eye-balled it but it looks like its just T4 or smaller screws holding it together. I have a feeling, though, that its major surgery to get at the battery. When Garmin tells me the battery isn't user replaceable, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Anyway, I don't like it but I can grudgingly live with it. Hopefully I can power it with an external bank when the battery finally meets its maker. One of the guys over on Snipers Hide tore theirs apart (had an issue out of the box) and the Li battery was a fairly common type that’s relatively inexpensive. I think it will be pretty easy to replace the battery if needed, assuming you are handy. |
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ON, CAN
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Posted: 11/30/2023 8:55:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZA206: One of the guys over on Snipers Hide tore theirs apart (had an issue out of the box) and the Li battery was a fairly common type that’s relatively inexpensive. I think it will be pretty easy to replace the battery if needed, assuming you are handy. I am pleased that is the case. |
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Posted: 12/1/2023 11:28:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZA206: One of the guys over on Snipers Hide tore theirs apart (had an issue out of the box) and the Li battery was a fairly common type that’s relatively inexpensive. I think it will be pretty easy to replace the battery if needed, assuming you are handy. My question is why would someone tear into a new $600 device instead of sending it back? I can't find anything about the warranty on their website. |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 9:11:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jwlaxton]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Blowout: My question is why would someone tear into a new $600 device instead of sending it back? I can't find anything about the warranty on their website. Curiosity is why. If you know at some point the battery will need to be replaced, and the screws to take it apart are readily accessible, why not open it and take a look? Link Showing Battery picture: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/garmin-xero-c1-pro-chronograph.7189898/page-12 |
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Posted: 12/2/2023 11:49:08 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jwlaxton: Curiosity is why. If you know at some point the battery will need to be replaced, and the screws to take it apart are readily accessible, why not open it and take a look? Link Showing Battery picture: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/garmin-xero-c1-pro-chronograph.7189898/page-12 Here is that battery. Looks pretty common and used in a lot of Garmin stuff. OEM available on eBay for $28. Nice to know anyway.  Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 12/2/2023 3:16:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Lithium batteries have proven to be so dangerous, the lawyers want to minimize product liability by saying it is "not user replaceable".
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Posted: 12/10/2023 1:32:12 PM EDT
[#42]
Took the new Garmin out to get some info from some 300WM I had sitting around from loading several years ago. Stuff matched the previous findings from the ammo that I wrote down back then. 2800 FPS for 190 Hornady Ballistic tip, sitting in WW case, WLR primer and 68 Grains of AA3100. My findings from 10+ years ago were 2850 FPS. Different rifles between then and now too. So, that can easily explain the 50 FPS difference.
Only disappointment today was the 40-60 MPH wind gusts. That affected accuracy a little, but having the Garmin, it did not blow over like my LabRadar did in high wind a couple years ago. So big difference there. Probably won't sell the LR yet, but I am thrilled with the Garmin. Today was a good day. 
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Posted: 12/12/2023 12:01:45 AM EDT
[#43]
I took mine out again today to check some pistol loads. This thing is ridiculously easy to use compared to my Caldwell and Labradar. Operation was 100% perfect. I was shooting about a foot over the Garmin.
Target is 25 yards away.  Attached File |
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Posted: 12/12/2023 10:50:39 PM EDT
[#44]
This place, always costing me $$. Just got a back in stock notification from euro optic, so I have one inbound. Sounds like it's going to be a very nice upgrade from my decades old PACT, that has never been very user friendly anyways.
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Posted: 12/13/2023 12:50:00 AM EDT
[#45]
Got the ship notice for my order from Pew Pew Solutions. Should be here tomorrow, hoping to test it out this weekend.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/13/2023 12:40:29 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Firefly1032: Got the ship notice for my order from Pew Pew Solutions. Should be here tomorrow, hoping to test it out this weekend. When did you order? Curious where I am in the queue. |
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Posted: 12/13/2023 3:39:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: wildearp]
[#47]
Does it work with other shooters next to you?
I also must mention that a lot of us were not pleased with the bluetooth dropout issues of the Labradar. It got better with one software update, but would still cut out. I had issues with triggering and erroneous data from nearby shooters and one day I was shooting near a wall and couldn't get it to trigger. Even with the remote motion trigger, I got inconsistent triggering. There was always a misread or two in a string of fire. Aiming the device could be tricky as well. I could just smell it that someone would build another mousetrap soon, and sold mine for what I paid for it. It did solve some problems for me and established good data on my reloads. My question above is key to whether I purchase a Garmin. I love the size. (I have three Garmin mini dash cams, solid gear) 
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/14/2023 1:54:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By phdog: When did you order? Curious where I am in the queue. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By phdog: Originally Posted By Firefly1032: Got the ship notice for my order from Pew Pew Solutions. Should be here tomorrow, hoping to test it out this weekend. When did you order? Curious where I am in the queue. @Firefly1032 I’m curious to know as well. I’m taking some time off next week and plan to do some shooting, I’d really like to have mine before then. |
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Posted: 12/14/2023 2:11:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mblades: @Firefly1032 I’m curious to know as well. I’m taking some time off next week and plan to do some shooting, I’d really like to have mine before then. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mblades: Originally Posted By phdog: Originally Posted By Firefly1032: Got the ship notice for my order from Pew Pew Solutions. Should be here tomorrow, hoping to test it out this weekend. When did you order? Curious where I am in the queue. @Firefly1032 I’m curious to know as well. I’m taking some time off next week and plan to do some shooting, I’d really like to have mine before then. I ordered on 10/24 @ approx 5:45 PM. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/14/2023 2:51:53 PM EDT
[#50]
It's physically small (packing and storage).
It's easy to set up (range time). It's reliable. It's Christmas. |
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