16" barrel.  I'm settling on 25.8 grain.  8 shots recorded.

AVG 2806 fps
High 2855 fps
Low 2767 fps
Ext Spread 88
Std Dev. 34.8

Your opinion on this?

Getting some interesting data coming in.

My goal for a load is a 55 grain bullet at 3000 fps from a 20" rifle.  Give or take 50 fps.

I've got that with the 26.5 grain load.  I have about 500 rounds loaded with that and the Hornady 55 FMJ so far.  This is AR range ammo for working on skill-building at sitting and standing positions.  I'll give this a summer of shooting and see if the stuff goes wonky on me in higher temps, but really, I don't think that is in the cards.

My "working load" AKA load for bait shooting is still the Hornady 55 SP over 25 grains of H4895.  However, I like WC844 enough I might do an accuracy comparison and shift over to that.  It looks like it has good potential.  I also have 24 lbs of surplus RL15 which has done well in my AR's.  Using it also in my Sauer 9.3x62.

That was what I was doing with it.  It was my short range off hand practice ammo.  I trusted it enough to use in 200 yard walk and paste club matches.   Using my match bullets wouldn’t have bought me many points at 200 yards,  if any.   A good bullet is most of the accuracy potential and the hornady fmj is a good bullet.   My load was for accuracy not full military power.

ETA I added my Lot number to my data.

Anyone try this powder with 308 Win, or 7.62x51? I have some primed LC brass and some 150 Gr. Nosler ballistic tip bullets to try.

Not yet but it looks like a good one.  I have a plan to check it out w/ .308.

No real update, just saw this thread pop back to the top of my subscribed list and remembered I shot some this weekend.

I was consistently hitting 8" and 10" gongs at 275 yards on Saturday with this 26.5gr charge and the 55gr Hornady SPBT out of a 12.5" barrel with 1-6x optic.

From the 'go-to rifle challenge' its evident I'm not the top shooter on arfcom and obviously this isn't proving sub-moa groups or anything, but I'm happy with that accuracy for myself. I'll try to shoot some new scores for that this weekend now that I think about it.

+1!!

Going to bump this one up again as I just picked up another 32 lbs for 440 the other day. New lot, new data.

Apologies. I'll be back to add new lot data here sooner or later. This thread is an excellent resource.

Glad this got bumped.  I need to load some 7.62/.308 and post the results.

I've got some ladders made, two sets of the same charges to shoot through 16" and 12.5" guns. Just need a range trip! Life keeps getting in the way

I got to test my first rifle reloads yesterday with WC-844 and Hornady 62 grain fmj-bt w/cannelure. I only tested at 25 yards and no chrono data because the range was surprisingly busy... so more of a function test than anything.

Ladder load of 23-25 grains in .4 increments ran my 16" FN chf barrel PSA mid-length with no issues and held the bolt open on an empty mag. S&B srp showed no pressure signs.

It's only 25 yards but both 24.2 and 24.6 both shot 5 round groups inside 1/2" with a 2 moa rd and 3x magnifier. It was a breezy and the hanging targets were swaying a bit, but I tried to be patient and squeeze off shots when it was still.  

Hopefully it won't be quite as busy at the range next time so I can set up the chrony and a 100 yard target.

Just an observation but the smoke from this powder had a bit of that cat piss smell to it, like russian steel case ammo but not as strong.

As promised:

Rifle.
ArmaLite AR10B, NON-FL barrel.
Redfield 3-9 scope set on 9.




Load.
Average FPS of 5 shots.
Extreme Spread FPS of 5 shots.
5 shot 100 meter group in MOA.

Load 1
PMC Bronze 147 FMJ Factory load
2607
17
4.367

Load 2
150 Speer, 43 gr H4895, CCI 200, RP case
2592
34
XXX

Load 3
147 FMJ Unknown Make, 44 gr H335, CCI 200, Lapua case
2737
36
XXX

Load 4
147 FMJ Unknown Make, 44 gr WC844 Lot 91318, CCI 200, Lapua case
2633
22
3.493

Load 5
147 FMJ Unknown Make, 45 gr WC844 Lot 91318, CCI 200, Lapua case
2656
41
2.074

Load 6
147 FMJ Unknown Make, 46 gr WC844 Lot 91318, CCI 200, Lapua case
2734
24
1.965

Comments:

*  Groups were fired quickly at a roughly 3" diameter magic marker blob on a cardboard target.  Rain was coming in and I was hurrying, tho load 5 and 6 show promise.  The PMC factory load really is inaccurate, tho.  Not sure why.  Am tempted to pull some bullets and replace with some good 150 grain Speers I have.

*  Primers were rounded and showed no cratering or significant flattening on any.  Your rifle may be different, so all I can do is post up my results.  These loads may be dangerous in your rifle.

* My hunches seem to be panning out.  The stuff appears to perform very similarly to BLC2 which is to say WC846.  I like it.

*  Except for the PMC, all groups shot to very similar point of aim.  

@TGE @PointBlank82 @montyw42 @AR-Bossman @chevrofreak @dryflash3 @RegionRat @Chuck_Finley_IV @acman145acp @LeadBreakfast @Motor1 @SteelonSteel

I've had better results with it in .308 than I have in 5.56. This was with lot 91318, mixed cases, and 150 Barnes Tac-X (Berry's had some bulk on sale a while back). Rifle was an 18" PSA correction: MVP.  It's been a little bit since I messed with it (as evidenced by the date in the sheet).

@Naporter

Very interesting stuff there.  Thanks for posting that.  You are getting much faster speeds than I from your 18" bbl.  My hunch paid off in my rifles...that it would duplicate the military "spec" for W846 147 grain 7.62x51.  Your test here shows it to burn faster in your rifle.

Have you ever gone farther than 44 grains?

Were there any signs of excess pressure in your 44 grain load?

I agree the stuff seems to perform well in .308 and with the information I have now would not hesitate to run it in any round that uses BLC2 or comparable types of mid-speed powders.  I shoot a bit of 9.3x62 and it looks like it would be a great powder in that cartridge, tho I have a good load for that one using another milsurp, RL15.

All in all I find this stuff pretty good.  As stated earlier, I'll keep using my H4895 for my baitshooting ammo but this stuff is great for range use and looks like it would be nice for larger cal hunting ammo too.

Looking back at the handwritten notes, it was actually a Mossberg MVP patrol.  Similar barrel length though.  Worth remembering those were solid copper bullets so they have lower case capacity than a lead core bullet, meaning same charges have different results.

Very good point.

Great report.


I expected you to be happy with it for that type of load.

I was hoping for a duplicate of the W846 service load;  46 grains/2750 fps.   Got that pretty closely.  Yeah, I'm really happy with it.  Been a fun project.

I am thinking this stuff would make a good powder for heavier bullet .223/5.56 loads, too.

First round of testing results for Midwest Powder WC844 lot # 041120:
22.0 gr 2480fps
22.3gr 2497fps
22.6gr 2501fps
22.9gr 2561fps
23.2gr 2604fps
23.5gr 2596fps
23.8gr 2648fps
24.1gr 2675fps
24.4gr 2718fps
24.7gr 2743fps
25gr 2809fps
25.3gr 2839fps
25.6gr 2870fps
25.9gr 2889fps
26.2gr 2943fps
26.4gr 2949fps
26.6gr 2989fps
26.8gr 3002fps

These results came from a Colt SOCOM profile 16" 1:7 barrel at 70 degrees F. Chrono 15' from muzzle.  These numbers are the average of two rounds fired at each powder charge weight. Care was taken to keep each round out of the chamber until immediately prior to firing (1-3 seconds) so as not to induce temperature related changes. My focus during the second round of work ups with this powder will be on the 26.2-26.4 grain spread. My last lot of WC844 showed the best results at 26.5 grains so these results are fairly close and not inconsistent with bulk powder deviations. I'll be back to update what the second round of testing shows. Not sure how many have purchased powder from this newer lot but it went fast so I'd expect quite a few of us.

Very interesting.  My lot w/ 26.5 gave 3040 fps in a 20" bbl.  Pretty darn close.

The last lot I settled on 26.5gr which produced about 3015fps in a 20" barrel. It will be interesting to see where I end up with this one.

That's it for me, too.

I'm about to test my ladder load from this same lot (23-23.5-24-24.5-25gr). Good to see some reference data for this same lot that I got. After seeing this I think I may have to bump up my charge...

Do you mind me asking from 23-25gr which grouped best?

For those charge weights my velocities were so low I didn't even pay attention to accuracy.

@max_chao

I have a hunch 23 might be at the ragged edge of reliable functioning.  

Anyway, I settled on 26.5 and have no interest in going below that due to the low velocities I got in my rifle.  However, if you run the ladder on it, post up your results as it would give that much more information.  No idea if my loads are safe in your rifle or anybody else's and just as I have no idea if a 23 grain charge {or other} would gin up its own set of function or safety problems.  

Damn... well I may just load up another ladder up to 27gr sometime before Friday. No big deal sounds like recent lots of WC844 are pretty slow...
I don't have a chrono but ill post up some groups hah

Easy for me to spend your money for you, but I'd get a chronograph before shooting that ladder!

It is one of the top gun-related purchases I've ever made.  You will NOT regret it.

Yep.  Most of you have $90 wrapped up in 3k primers...for $90 you can have a chrono.  And two eyes, two hands, 10 fingers, and a nose

I handloading for many years w/o one, but man was the Truth exposed when i got one!!

I guess if all you did was shoot at 100 yards for rifle and 10 for pistol, you could just follow book guidelines and look the other way.

But anyone that shoots competitively, hunts, long range, wants to know 'for sure', or otherwise feels like taking their reloading to the next level...it's a no brainer.

Holding out for you to reload some 30-06 with this powder. I reloaded a ton with a friend last summer. Wish I had some left for 308.

Looks to me it would work well with 130-150 grain bullets in the old '06.

Yeah, we got a ton of the Hornady 150 gr SP’s (seconds) from Midway and loaded about 4500 cases between us with that load. He was moving so wanted to stock up since he used my equipment. Garand safe loads. He plans to use on deer on his new ranch in New Mexico. If the panic dies down by hunting season, I may take my Garand out there in the fall.

I made the mistake and bought the BLC2-like surplus powder for my 308. I haven’t found a good load with it so I am going back to Varget for that since I have a ton. Great to see you are putting the time in to see how this powder works in 308. Maybe get a jug next time I need some powder. Been enjoying the read, thanks!

@EVR

HMmm now you have me thinking if i ever stumble into a good deal on 308 projectiles this would build decent FAL fodder too.

Im waiting on hot summer to push my powder charges up into 5.56 land since my lot number is the same but mine seems to be faster.

I agree on the chrono purchase with the variance in burn rate it’ll be nice to do a quick ladder to test a new jug when its opened ..... We bought a lot
Of this powder so it’s beyond worth it.

Same. I do a ladder with .2 or .3gr increments, usually smaller increments towards the top end. I see no need to load charges that low, although I am aware that many do. My rationale is that I want all of my ammo to behave identically, even across lot numbers, and accuracy with different lots is usually found at similar velocities. Load ladder, shoot through chrono, graph, load second batch of five rounds at each increment, shoot again to confirm and look at data, then pick maybe the best two or three and load ten or twenty apiece, shoot for accuracy. Select best load and press a bunch out.

*UPDATE*
I ended up going to the range this past Friday.
All my 223 I've bought up till now has been from a trusted reloader who does a lot of competitor loads here in Southern California - I used about 30 rounds to make sure POI was on with POA. Since you guys said that 23 would barely cycle, I just started halfway up at 25 grains.
First shot and I hear my buddy say WHOA SH*T THOSE ARE HOT!
Felt the increased power as well - and since I'm a lame reloader without a chrono I can only go by feel.
I tried 23gr - 24gr and they both stronger than what I was buying. I also tried 2 rounds of 27 gr and I saw very slight pressure signs.
I think I will have to settle on 24-25 gr I will have to redo a ladder and see what accuracy I can get as I was only able to get a 25 yard berm.

LOAD DATA:
55gr FMJBT (Hornady)
LC brass trimmed to 1.75"
23gr - 27 gr increased by .5 gr
cci #400 primers

Thanks for submitting that material!!

You are right to be very careful in your working up of a load.   Without a chronograph you are really hamstrung and more or less loading in the dark.  Impressions from a bystander are of course pretty meaningless.

One of the things a chronograph does for you is let's you know what the FACTORY rounds are doing.  We have lots of options today, and performance varies.  For example, I don't even get involved in discussions on this site about how "M193" {etc} does this or that as factory ammo is often all over the map.  It's just plain silly to think that because some company loads a 55 grain FMJ for example, that it actually meets government spec for components and velocity of "M193" tho it may get called that. I've shot a lot of factory stuff said to be "M193" that is so ridiculously underloaded using it as a standard would be counterproductive unless all I care about is blasting ammo that makes the gun run.  I suspect it is not uncommon for some folks to get used to underloaded ammo for example and think that is "normal". I don't shoot steel case ammo but seem to remember some of the chrono results being quite amazing as to how low are the velocities of some of that stuff. Real M193 loaded to gubmnt spec is actually pretty fast stuff.

You are more trusting than me.  I don't shoot anyone's handloads but mine and my family's as we load together.

I think you would really benefit by and enjoy using a chronograph.   It's like a whole new thing, a new world in shooting.

Actually thank you for the constructive criticism! I know a lot of places I'd probably get flamed for just sending rounds/ working up loads without a chrono. I know it's probably not the best now but it's all I got at the moment.
In terms of a chrono I've actually been researching which to get - its my next investment.

I wouldn't say this guy advertised his loads as M193 spec they were just blasting 223 that I've been getting from him for the past 10+ years. I will say I was a bit wary but was referred to him from a lot of my buddies once I started shooting competitively as he was the guy to go to.
Once I saw his operation though my worries went away.

But I guess now that I am looking in retrospect... I was using the reloaded 223 just to see where my rounds were impacting and rezeroing… and I was I guess going for 556 loads... so I guess comparing 223 feel vs 556 feel is worlds different...

@EVR I know we have shared a lot of data on this powder in the past. I wanted to update you and others tuned in to this thread on the newest lot/latest work up. All rounds loaded in Lake City brass, matched head stamp year, with a CCI 450 primer, Hornady 55gr SPBT and a COAL of 2.20".

Lot #041120
Tested out of a 20" Ballistic Advantage barrel
Best accuracy and consistency came at 26.4gr which averaged 3,140fps at 70* (on the spicy side compared to the last lot). I loaded five rounds apiece at each charge weight and shot four for accuracy at 100yds through the chrono. The fifth was reserved for a small test in my 10.5" pistol.  This is a perfect example of why you always work up - my last lot averaged 3,080 fps from the same barrel with 26.5gr at essentially the same temperature.

Results (charge, average velocity):
26.2, 3091
26.3, 3118
26.4, 3140 (held sub MOA for the four round group).
26.5, 3148
26.6, 3172

Results for the pistol were limited since it was just a simple five shot ladder. These are for the previously referenced new lot 041120.

10.5" PSA nitride pistol, carbine gas results (charge, velocity):
26.2, 2609
26.3, 2672
26.4, 2640
26.5, 2672
26.6, 2661

The same pistol with the old lot loaded at 26.5 gr WC844 averaged 2,604 fps over a string of ten shots. A 16" Colt SOCOM barrel averaged 2,950fps at 26.4 and 3,000 fps at 26.8gr with the new lot. I can make the rest of the work up available if anyone is interested, just let me know. It covers 22 to 26.8 grains in the Colt barrel. The old lot was worked up to 26.5gr expressly for this gun with best accuracy at 2.963fps - that data can be found in this and the other archived wc844 thread.

In short, the newer lot appears to be a touch hotter all around than an older lot. That is okay if you buy this powder in bulk. A couple load development sessions and you're set to load cheap ammo for a while. Works out to 14.9 cents per round IIRC with components purchased in the past year. This price is obviously not reflective of the current market due to supply constraints but it sure feels good to load these up from a savings and performance perspective versus $450/case xm193 right now.

I hope this information is useful to any who have interest in this powder. I wanted to dump it via post as a member had PM'd me with some questions and I hadn't seen this thread pop up in a long time.

Thanks for the post.  If the stars align I plan to get out Sunday with my first workup using WC844.  I'll be shooting from a 16" and a 12.5 suppressed rifle and do have a chronograph.  I'll post up results when I have them.

@LeadBreakfast

THANKS for that!

Very interesting.

I notice your 26.5 gr charge produced 74 fps more than mine.  However, mine was shot w/ CCI400 primers.  Even so, your average is within the extreme spread for mine.

I know some folks say it's not worth it due to the extra effort that goes into coming up w/ a load, but I find that effort quite interesting in and of itself.

Thanks again for posting.  Glad this thread is still w/ us.

You're very welcome. I am of the same mindset - the extra effort is what makes the difference. I believe that is what made it possible to put a 5.56 on paper at 986 yards in my first ever effort for 13/15 shots. The devil is in the details. I figure that if I'm collecting all that data for myself I may as well share it too. It's no use keeping a secret, even though wc844 is great I can't buy it all so may as well convince some others to get in on the fun.

It is interesting how barrels differ, same with lots of powder, types of brass, etc. I posted a lot of data on the old lot in the archived thread which I know you've seen but that was all focused on 16" barrels, I wanted to get some data on other lengths for this round as I want an inexpensive and still sub MOA varmint round so I don't shoot up all my TMKs. Just so happens that the 55gr Hornadys and the TMKs have a very similar POI out to a few hundred yards...very convenient. There is an article about that out on the interwebs as well which is kinda what spurred this project. Also interesting to find out how useful the 10.5" pistol is...results say that the SP is still well within expansion at effective ranges.

FWIW I did use the CCI400 primers when I first started in on 5.56/.223. After going through a thousand and comparing them to the 450's the results favored using 450's for everything so that is what I have continued to do. I do have some Rem 7 1/2s around too but haven't made a concerted effort into digging into the differences yet as the loads I've found this far don't have much to improve on.

Outstanding, I love reading about everyone's experimentation with this stuff. Thank you.

Same here. That's at least half the fun or reloading for me.

Wanted to update: ended up that 26.5 gr was better than 26.4 for accuracy and I ended up with the same charge weight as the last lot even though velocity is significantly higher. Hornady 55gr seated to 2.200". This powder is funny but the price makes it more than worth it.

Went and shot today and sweated through every piece of clothing. It was worth it.