Armory Sponsor
Posted: 1/30/2017 12:05:45 AM EDT
|
Hey fellas - for years I've sized 9mm separately, using hornady one shot or dillon lube and a single stage, then priming and loading on my Hornady LNL. This process worked great, but I always thought it added an unnecessary step.
I figured I may as well start running all five stations on the LNL, starting with sizing die, expander, powder, seater and Lee factory crimp. No lube, since I don't like the idea of lubed cases interacting with powder. What a mess! My OAL (set to 1.10) was running between 1.098-1.107 The sizing required quite a bit of force, and I tried this in both Lee and Hornady dies. I even bought new dies for this. Does everyone run into this? Is there a better way to use all five stations at once, or am I better off going to my old ways of sizing first, tumbling, then running through the progressive to prime, expand, charge, seat and crimp? Thanks for your thoughts! |
|
A, Shim the drive hub, so the shell plate is not way too loose on the sub plate when the nut is tightened (with lock washer to keep the nut tight). If the side bolts on the sub plate are not pulling the bottom of the sub plate tight against the ram, then you may have to shim the sub plate to ram as well.
B, Even with the drive hub shimmed to take up the slop between the sub plate and shell plate (and maybe even the sub plate to ram if needed), you still need to balance the pressure across the plate as you are keeping all the stations full. Also, Diy lube the cases to help reduce the pressure from the sizer and adjoining carbide crimp die on that side of the shell plate. the finished rounds you can put into a dry tumble for a few mins to remove the DIY case lube when your done. As for you set up, sizing die, expander, powder, seater and Lee factory crimp, Would ditch the separate case mouth expander, use a Ptx powder through expander in the dispenser with measure stop to open up a station, and get either a powder checker or powder cop into the mix isntead. Next on the list, pull the bullet seater stem out of the seating die and make sure it matching the bullet type in play. For pistol, the seater die should come with a round nose steam and a flat nose stem. If you are not seating round nose bullets, but flat nose bullets instead, then use the flat nose stem and maybe even build up the face of it with some wax if the flat area on it is much larger than the bullet noses you are seating. Also, double check the top of the seating stem to adjustment screw and clean up the surfaces so both are smooth and square. Lastly, and the huge draw back on the LnL, you can induce a lot of different full ram heights via the way you are cam'g the handle all the way down. If you cam the handle off to the side at cam over, then this causes the ram to push farther up then if you handle straight down isntead. Short of pulling the machine apart to install bushings to fix the problem, you just have to make sure that you are cam'g the handle straight down each time. If you are still running into problem after the above mods, then make sure that you have the powder cop/powder checker set to add pressure on the opposite side of the shell plate from the sizer and carbide bullet crimper. So sizer, dispenser with PTX expander, powder cop/powder checker, bullet seater, then carbide bullet seater. On the sizer, cop and sizer, make sure that they are all applying even pressure to the empty shell plate at set up during cam over, since this is need to keep even pressure across the correctly shimmed drive hub shell plate. One last thing, and you did not state what dies are in play. If lee, or some other less expensive type, pull them apart and start polishing. When you go to put them back together, a light coat of Johnson paste (with the excess polished off) was will keep the parts from rusting. It also does wonders when its used on the powder dispenser parts instead of any oil/grease lubes as well. 
|
|
Well, 1.098 to 1.107 is only a swing of .009" (+/- .0045") which is normal.
That said, since the ram is in the middle of the shell plate and all the stations are on the edges, sizing (which by far takes the most force) tilts the plate slightly. You can put cases in there to size, if you want, when you're setting your OAL. Good use for crimped primer cases. |
|
Quoted:
Well, 1.098 to 1.107 is only a swing of .009" (+/- .0045") which is normal. That said, since the ram is in the middle of the shell plate and all the stations are on the edges, sizing (which by far takes the most force) tilts the plate slightly. You can put cases in there to size, if you want, when you're setting your OAL. Good use for crimped primer cases. Is a .009 swing acceptable? I've never had that much. Thoughts? |
|
Quoted:
Hey fellas - for years I've sized 9mm separately, using hornady one shot or dillon lube and a single stage, then priming and loading on my Hornady LNL. This process worked great, but I always thought it added an unnecessary step. I figured I may as well start running all five stations on the LNL, starting with sizing die, expander, powder, seater and Lee factory crimp. No lube, since I don't like the idea of lubed cases interacting with powder. What a mess! My OAL (set to 1.10) was running between 1.098-1.107 The sizing required quite a bit of force, and I tried this in both Lee and Hornady dies. I even bought new dies for this. Does everyone run into this? Is there a better way to use all five stations at once, or am I better off going to my old ways of sizing first, tumbling, then running through the progressive to prime, expand, charge, seat and crimp? Thanks for your thoughts! Have you actually checked the bullets???? Even OAL? using a micromweter to 1/10,000? Calipers are routinely only 1/1,000? With an actual standard? Like gauge blocks? Can you tell on the target? can you call a shot? |
|
First, which bullets are you using? The (tiny) LOA variation you're seeing could be simply ogive shape variations in the bullets. And what brass? Mixed brass can offer variable case thickness and hardness, which could contribute to seating issues as well as sizing issues.
I think your very small LOA variation is due to variations in the bullets and probably also due to variations in the brass. If you're loading range brass, it's almost certainly contributing to the problems with sizing as well. But feeling like you're fighting the press when you're loading can't help the consistency of your finished rounds. I size everything in a single pass on my LnL AP. And I LUBE everything (including pistol cases) too. I use lanolin-based home brewed lube, size the brass, then tumble it off in plain corn cob media in a vibratory tumbler. This has improved my sizing consistency, decreased (especially with lube) sizing effort, and allows me to have all of my brass for a particular caliber sized the same, whether I'm about to load it or not. Lanolin in alcohol (the "case lube for cheap bastards") can't hurt powder or primers, but I don't like the brass to be slick when I start loading it. This step is the culmination of my brass prep process: hand deprime and inspect, wet tumble with stainless pins and inspect, size and inspect, de-lube and inspect, then put away ready for loading. Making the LnL AP physically and mechanically more consistent is a lengthy subject. Check out this thread for some details. In a nutshell, it's a great press that has a few quirks - some of which occasionally need substantial attention. On the other hand, your 0.009" LOA variation isn't enough to attribute to the press. I'd expect something more like 0.010" (an order of magnitude higher) from press issues. |
|
Quoted:
First, which bullets are you using? The (tiny) LOA variation you're seeing could be simply ogive shape variations in the bullets. And what brass? Mixed brass can offer variable case thickness and hardness, which could contribute to seating issues as well as sizing issues. I think your very small LOA variation is due to variations in the bullets and probably also due to variations in the brass. If you're loading range brass, it's almost certainly contributing to the problems with sizing as well. But feeling like you're fighting the press when you're loading can't help the consistency of your finished rounds. I size everything in a single pass on my LnL AP. And I LUBE everything (including pistol cases) too. I use lanolin-based home brewed lube, size the brass, then tumble it off in plain corn cob media in a vibratory tumbler. This has improved my sizing consistency, decreased (especially with lube) sizing effort, and allows me to have all of my brass for a particular caliber sized the same, whether I'm about to load it or not. Lanolin in alcohol (the "case lube for cheap bastards") can't hurt powder or primers, but I don't like the brass to be slick when I start loading it. This step is the culmination of my brass prep process: hand deprime and inspect, wet tumble with stainless pins and inspect, size and inspect, de-lube and inspect, then put away ready for loading. Making the LnL AP physically and mechanically more consistent is a lengthy subject. Check out this thread for some details. In a nutshell, it's a great press that has a few quirks - some of which occasionally need substantial attention. On the other hand, your 0.009" LOA variation isn't enough to attribute to the press. I'd expect something more like 0.010" (an order of magnitude higher) from press issues. Mr Porter, You're not talking about trimming, correct, just resizing? I have a LNL and love it but I may have to give your recommendation a try. Thank you. |
|
Correct, I'm not talking about trimming, just sizing 9mm cases. There isn't a good reason to trim these cases, and it could be a problem, since they headspace on the case mouth.
But different brands of 9mm brass can behave VERY differently in the same sizing die. Using a little lube and a consistent process (which is why I size in a separate pass) helps with sizing consistency. |
|
Quoted:
Hey fellas - for years I've sized 9mm separately, using hornady one shot or dillon lube and a single stage, then priming and loading on my Hornady LNL. This process worked great, but I always thought it added an unnecessary step. I figured I may as well start running all five stations on the LNL, starting with sizing die, expander, powder, seater and Lee factory crimp. No lube, since I don't like the idea of lubed cases interacting with powder. What a mess! My OAL (set to 1.10) was running between 1.098-1.107 The sizing required quite a bit of force, and I tried this in both Lee and Hornady dies. I even bought new dies for this. Does everyone run into this? Is there a better way to use all five stations at once, or am I better off going to my old ways of sizing first, tumbling, then running through the progressive to prime, expand, charge, seat and crimp? Thanks for your thoughts! I always resize and deprime first then wet tumble. Hand prime and put in batches for loading later. But that's just me. Why are you sizing on your single stage though? Why not run them through the progressive? Last but not least, how are you measuring for oal? Are you measuring off the ogive? The 9mm I load on my LnL hardly varies in length off the ogive at all. But then again I'm a very weird person who uses all the same headstamp 9mm brass too... |
Armory Sponsor