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Posted: 10/21/2016 4:45:43 PM EDT
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Anyone know the story behind this stuff? I bought some surplus powder that is labeled "GD" which really only seems to go back to General Dynamics.
Anyway, I did some googling and it sounds like GD owns St. Marks Powder which actually produces a lot of the commercial powder in the US. Supposedly Hodgdon/Win/IMR just buy bulk from St. Marks and private label for retail. I'm curious if it's just excess product that found its way through various channels. I'd also like to know if there's a way to safely test it out. |
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Didn't the vendor give you a data sheet with it? or at least tell you what it burns 'like' or caliber it was pulled from? Is it ball or extruded? I don't know if the Florida plant makes any extruded (think that comes from Canada). If extruded you "might" narrow it down to a couple probabilities and maybe find an overlapping staring load zone to test from (with a chrono of course). If it's ball powder it's probably unlikely you will guess what it is and (IMO) is too dangerous to try test loads . other choices seem to be in the realm of Fertilizer or pyrotechnics. |
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Win used own the plant (Olin powder), GD is now running the LC plant, needs the ball powder st marks makes, so the bought the plant when Olin lost the LC plant and sold off pretty much the win name products.
As for the suplus powder, should have come with a non canister product number (WC8XX if a pull down powder), and once you have that number, will tell you close to what kind of burn rate is has, and what you can start working up loads as. Hence St marks does not do much over runs sell off's to the public, so chances it a surplus ammo pull down powder, and you need to know what non canistor powder is it to begin with. |
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Anyone with $$$ can place an order with St. Marks, as I am sure that Western Powder does business with them, in addition to Hodgdon.
And, larger OEM do business with them. Actually, Radford Arsenal is really run by BAE, now. And, ATK is a client. Quoted:
There are only three smokeless powder plants in North America: GD-Saint Marks in Florida; ATK - Radford, Virginia; and GD - Valleyfield, Canada. |
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BAE is the British counter competitor to GD if you think in the terms of parent companies , but ATK is owned by GD itself.
So in the states, it's GD as the parent company of ATK that is running the LC plant, and since LC produces ball ammo, needs the ball powder that the ST mark plant produces. So again, when Win/Olin was running the LC plants, why the needed the st marks plant since it was producing the ball powder they needed, and when GD won the contract to run the LC plant, why they bought the St marks plant from Olin. As for BAE/GD and it's ATK division, they have so many joint ventures at all the America's ammo plants (including the Canada plant), it pretty hard to find any ammo plant or milirtary project that both do not having something going on either with them together, or at a separate at one of the plants. Hence you have to break up that it not only small arms ammo that is being produced at the ammo plants, but much larger military items as well. Hell in the bigger picture, you have naval ship repair, and both have contracts at the Norfolk shipyard as well. But to digress, since you know that the powder is a US produced spherical powder, then it came out of the St marks plant, so should be able to trace that powder back to St marks powder type. If it's a canister powder or not (canister powder is the type we get that is always same/same from lot to lot , with a non canistor powder you will have to work the loads up per lot number each time) should not matter, so long as you have the st marks powder type to begin with. As for St marks producing a 4350 powder (extruded grain shape), they do not produce such extruded grain powders, so at best may have a burn rate close to 4350 in a ball powder, but will still need to work the load up from reduced start points to watch for signs of over pressure like a hawk. So again, list the ST marks powder designation marking of the powder, and we should be able to tell you if it close to a burn rate of 4350 or not, and suitable for what you intend to use the powder to reload as. |
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Quoted:
I'll try to post up some pics once it arrives. It's supposedly a 4350 type powder. Ah... did you snatch up that 34 lb lot for $6/lb? I sent AR an email about that too. Here's hoping it's not from 50's Era 7.62x54mm pulls. 
From the email: GD 4350 (Very similar to Hodgdon 4350 and IMR 4350 but you’ll need to work up your own load data... |
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GD 4350 (Very similar to Hodgdon 4350 and IMR 4350 Would have to be from Australia H4350 (AR2209) or Canada IMR 4350 or Accurate 4350. MSDS OF POWDERS> http://www.hodgdon.com/msds.html Find photos and measurements of powders here. > http://www.ilrc.ucf.edu/powders/sample_detail.php?powder_id=113 |
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Quoted:
Ah... did you snatch up that 34 lb lot for $6/lb? I sent AR an email about that too. Here's hoping it's not from 50's Era 7.62x54mm pulls.
From the email: GD 4350 (Very similar to Hodgdon 4350 and IMR 4350 but you’ll need to work up your own load data... Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll try to post up some pics once it arrives. It's supposedly a 4350 type powder. Ah... did you snatch up that 34 lb lot for $6/lb? I sent AR an email about that too. Here's hoping it's not from 50's Era 7.62x54mm pulls.
From the email: GD 4350 (Very similar to Hodgdon 4350 and IMR 4350 but you’ll need to work up your own load data... Yeah that was me. 
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Alright it finally came in.
Here's a pic of the label. 
Comparison to Hodgdon H4350: 
And closeup of GD4350: 
It doesn't mean anything, but the extruded cut sizes look similar, although the color is off. The Hodgdon is a green/yellow tinge and the GD is gray/black. |
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Quoted:
Alright it finally came in. Here's a pic of the label. http://www.therightshine.com/imghost/4350.jpg Comparison to Hodgdon H4350: http://www.therightshine.com/imghost/4350_2.jpg And closeup of GD4350: http://www.therightshine.com/imghost/4350_3.jpg It doesn't mean anything, but the extruded cut sizes look similar, although the color is off. The Hodgdon is a green/yellow tinge and the GD is gray/black. Reminds me of H4895 vs IMR4895 |
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