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10/4/2016 8:55:59 PM EDT
Looking for a good starting reload for subsonic .223 out of a 10" barrel with suppressor.  I would like a load that will cycle the bolt if possible.  

Any recommendations?

Im also curious if id even need to trim the case length on fired subsonic.  Im guessing no.
10/4/2016 8:51:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Subsonic .223 will not cycle the bolt. A 55gr .22 caliber bullet is essentially a 22lr.

300 blackout is what you seek for semi auto subsonic loads in an AR15.
10/4/2016 9:40:08 PM EDT
[#2]
300 blackout is not an option.  Ive got some subsonic 223 on order and was told it will not cycle the action as well.  So its not possible to handload a cartridge low enough for subsonic speeds but fast enough to cycle the gas system?
10/4/2016 10:39:09 PM EDT
[#3]
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300 blackout is not an option.  Ive got some subsonic 223 on order and was told it will not cycle the action as well.  So its not possible to handload a cartridge low enough for subsonic speeds but fast enough to cycle the gas system?
View Quote


It can be done, but you are better off with a dedicated .22LR upper. A .22 caliber bullet going at subsonic velocity is essentially a less stable .22LR. Not worth the effort IMO. This is why so many people have gone to 300blk for suppressed use.
10/5/2016 2:41:20 PM EDT
[#4]
.22 lr is not an option either.  It has to be .223 out of an AR with 10" barrel and suppressor.  Need a good starting point for a load that will cycle
10/5/2016 3:06:24 PM EDT
[#5]
You are unlikely to find a load which will cycle the action and be under 1000fps without modifications to the rifle, which would then make firing full power supersonic rounds in the same rifle a no-go.

A certain port pressure is required to operate the action, and in generating this pressure you are driving the bullet faster.

As to trimming your cases. Always trim cases to the proper length.

While there may be very little case growth after firing low pressure subs, there will be some. Might take a few cycles of firing and full length resizing to need to trim again, but there is no such thing as never needing to trim when it comes to bottle necked cases.
10/5/2016 3:26:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Just curious, why is 22lr not an option? CCMG conversion works real good. It's quiet and swaps out easily.
10/5/2016 4:59:59 PM EDT
[#7]
dont want to keep cycling the charge handle.  Its out of convenience.
10/5/2016 5:02:45 PM EDT
[#8]
It's not going to happen and if it does you are likely to get a baffle strike. No one I know reloads subsonic .223 for use in an AR.
10/5/2016 5:07:54 PM EDT
[#9]
You might as well be looking for unicorns and Bigfoot.

Any particular reason that you may like to divulge as to why 300 blk, or .22or are not an option
10/5/2016 6:04:30 PM EDT
[#10]
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You might as well be looking for unicorns and Bigfoot.

Any particular reason that you may like to divulge as to why 300 blk, or .22or are not an option
View Quote



I agree why is 22 and 300blk not an option?

Good luck getting. 223 to cycle subsonic. Waste of time anyways.
10/5/2016 9:16:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Well i guess i will just have to develop a light regular load and see how loud it is with this suppressor we are getting.  Im willing to bet AE223 will still be too loud to fire without ear plugs.  Thanks for the replies.
10/6/2016 3:38:46 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
Well i guess i will just have to develop a light regular load and see how loud it is with this suppressor we are getting.  Im willing to bet AE223 will still be too loud to fire without ear plugs.  Thanks for the replies.
View Quote


It's unlikely that a supersonic 223 load out of a 10" barrel will be anywhere near ear safe through a suppressor. Loading them down isn't likely to have much impact. Even subsonic 300 blk through a good suppressor is still pretty loud - the only suppressed caliber I'll leave my earpro off for is 22LR.

That said, 300 blk makes reloading subs for the AR way easier. You can use coated lead rounds and shoot steel close up with no jackets in the face, and it's about as loud as a suppressed 22LR super.
10/6/2016 4:51:22 PM EDT
[#13]
You need to convert to 300BLK - all that's required is a barrel and they've come way down in cost lately.

EDIT to add:  if anyone is NOT stuck on the requirement to cycle an AR-15:

- Hodgdon, surprisingly, publishes 2 loads in their published data for sub-sonic 223 loads.  

Since it's published, I presume it's been tested as safe by Hodgdon.

One caution though: before trying one of those loads through a suppressor, fire 5 or 10'on paper to make sure they are not tumbling coming out of your particular gun's barrel.  Better safe than sorry.
10/6/2016 4:57:55 PM EDT
[#14]
10" 300BK is the way to go, have 2 and am getting rid of one as I don't need that many.
10/6/2016 6:18:06 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm betting that OP bought a .223 silencer for his first can and didn't do his homework. That was my initial plan but thankfully a friend guided me in the right direction. If that is the case, you're up shit creek.
10/6/2016 8:42:07 PM EDT
[#16]
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I'm betting that OP bought a .223 silencer for his first can and didn't do his homework. That was my initial plan but thankfully a friend guided me in the right direction. If that is the case, you're up shit creek.
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I always recommend a .22 suppressor to start.
10/6/2016 8:44:55 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:


It's unlikely that a supersonic 223 load out of a 10" barrel will be anywhere near ear safe through a suppressor. Loading them down isn't likely to have much impact. Even subsonic 300 blk through a good suppressor is still pretty loud - the only suppressed caliber I'll leave my earpro off for is 22LR.

That said, 300 blk makes reloading subs for the AR way easier. You can use coated lead rounds and shoot steel close up with no jackets in the face, and it's about as loud as a suppressed 22LR super.
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Quoted:
Well i guess i will just have to develop a light regular load and see how loud it is with this suppressor we are getting.  Im willing to bet AE223 will still be too loud to fire without ear plugs.  Thanks for the replies.


It's unlikely that a supersonic 223 load out of a 10" barrel will be anywhere near ear safe through a suppressor. Loading them down isn't likely to have much impact. Even subsonic 300 blk through a good suppressor is still pretty loud - the only suppressed caliber I'll leave my earpro off for is 22LR.

That said, 300 blk makes reloading subs for the AR way easier. You can use coated lead rounds and shoot steel close up with no jackets in the face, and it's about as loud as a suppressed 22LR super.


300 blk through my Gemtech GMT300blk is pretty damn quiet. I would say just barley louder than my suppressed .22s. My octane 9hd also suppresses 300blk really well.
10/6/2016 11:51:06 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
You might as well be looking for unicorns and Bigfoot.

Any particular reason that you may like to divulge as to why 300 blk, or .22or are not an option
View Quote


It's not impossible but you just have to know what you're doing and what powders will get you the right PSI to cycle the bolt. I've consistently done it and it's a lot easier than one would think. The shorter the barrel and gas system, the more reliable the ammunition will be.
10/7/2016 6:37:28 AM EDT
[#19]
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It's not impossible but you just have to know what you're doing and what powders will get you the right PSI to cycle the bolt. I've consistently done it and it's a lot easier than one would think. The shorter the barrel and gas system, the more reliable the ammunition will be.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
You might as well be looking for unicorns and Bigfoot.

Any particular reason that you may like to divulge as to why 300 blk, or .22or are not an option


It's not impossible but you just have to know what you're doing and what powders will get you the right PSI to cycle the bolt. I've consistently done it and it's a lot easier than one would think. The shorter the barrel and gas system, the more reliable the ammunition will be.


I have been told that and even tried it.  I forget exactly what powders I tried since it was years ago.  But the best results I had was using blue dot and even then I could not get more then a few rounds to feed and then absolutely no consistency.  Even purchased some 100 he factory loads that claimed they would cycle.  I forget the name.  Tried all their suggestions, lots of lubricant, remove weights from buffer, etc.  Still not happening.

If you have a recipe, I for one would be willing to give it a shot, but I still believe it is mostly fantasy.
10/7/2016 4:44:10 PM EDT
[#20]
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I have been told that and even tried it.  I forget exactly what powders I tried since it was years ago.  But the best results I had was using blue dot and even then I could not get more then a few rounds to feed and then absolutely no consistency.  Even purchased some 100 he factory loads that claimed they would cycle.  I forget the name.  Tried all their suggestions, lots of lubricant, remove weights from buffer, etc.  Still not happening.

If you have a recipe, I for one would be willing to give it a shot, but I still believe it is mostly fantasy.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You might as well be looking for unicorns and Bigfoot.

Any particular reason that you may like to divulge as to why 300 blk, or .22or are not an option


It's not impossible but you just have to know what you're doing and what powders will get you the right PSI to cycle the bolt. I've consistently done it and it's a lot easier than one would think. The shorter the barrel and gas system, the more reliable the ammunition will be.


I have been told that and even tried it.  I forget exactly what powders I tried since it was years ago.  But the best results I had was using blue dot and even then I could not get more then a few rounds to feed and then absolutely no consistency.  Even purchased some 100 he factory loads that claimed they would cycle.  I forget the name.  Tried all their suggestions, lots of lubricant, remove weights from buffer, etc.  Still not happening.

If you have a recipe, I for one would be willing to give it a shot, but I still believe it is mostly fantasy.


I can't give out any load data but you're very close. If you have a midlength gas system, then you're not going to be very successful. It has nothing else to do with modifying your rifle in any way or shape but as I said before, the shorter the gas and barrel, the more reliable your rifle will be. I'm currently using a Rainier 14.5" barrel with a 1/7 twist, carbine gas.
10/7/2016 5:38:46 PM EDT
[#21]
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I can't give out any load data but you're very close. If you have a midlength gas system, then you're not going to be very successful. It has nothing else to do with modifying your rifle in any way or shape but as I said before, the shorter the gas and barrel, the more reliable your rifle will be. I'm currently using a Rainier 14.5" barrel with a 1/7 twist, carbine gas.
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Quoted:
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Quoted:
You might as well be looking for unicorns and Bigfoot.

Any particular reason that you may like to divulge as to why 300 blk, or .22or are not an option


It's not impossible but you just have to know what you're doing and what powders will get you the right PSI to cycle the bolt. I've consistently done it and it's a lot easier than one would think. The shorter the barrel and gas system, the more reliable the ammunition will be.


I have been told that and even tried it.  I forget exactly what powders I tried since it was years ago.  But the best results I had was using blue dot and even then I could not get more then a few rounds to feed and then absolutely no consistency.  Even purchased some 100 he factory loads that claimed they would cycle.  I forget the name.  Tried all their suggestions, lots of lubricant, remove weights from buffer, etc.  Still not happening.

If you have a recipe, I for one would be willing to give it a shot, but I still believe it is mostly fantasy.


I can't give out any load data but you're very close. If you have a midlength gas system, then you're not going to be very successful. It has nothing else to do with modifying your rifle in any way or shape but as I said before, the shorter the gas and barrel, the more reliable your rifle will be. I'm currently using a Rainier 14.5" barrel with a 1/7 twist, carbine gas.


You can't?  Like legally you can't give out load data?  Or you won't because of some other reason?
10/7/2016 7:30:00 PM EDT
[#22]
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You can't?  Like legally you can't give out load data?  Or you won't because of some other reason?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You might as well be looking for unicorns and Bigfoot.

Any particular reason that you may like to divulge as to why 300 blk, or .22or are not an option


It's not impossible but you just have to know what you're doing and what powders will get you the right PSI to cycle the bolt. I've consistently done it and it's a lot easier than one would think. The shorter the barrel and gas system, the more reliable the ammunition will be.


I have been told that and even tried it.  I forget exactly what powders I tried since it was years ago.  But the best results I had was using blue dot and even then I could not get more then a few rounds to feed and then absolutely no consistency.  Even purchased some 100 he factory loads that claimed they would cycle.  I forget the name.  Tried all their suggestions, lots of lubricant, remove weights from buffer, etc.  Still not happening.

If you have a recipe, I for one would be willing to give it a shot, but I still believe it is mostly fantasy.


I can't give out any load data but you're very close. If you have a midlength gas system, then you're not going to be very successful. It has nothing else to do with modifying your rifle in any way or shape but as I said before, the shorter the gas and barrel, the more reliable your rifle will be. I'm currently using a Rainier 14.5" barrel with a 1/7 twist, carbine gas.


You can't?  Like legally you can't give out load data?  Or you won't because of some other reason?


He wont cause it does not exist
10/7/2016 8:28:31 PM EDT
[#23]
He wont cause it does not exist
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What are you? The subject matter expert here? If you couldn't figure it out, then it's on you.

You can't? Like legally you can't give out load data? Or you won't because of some other reason?
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I reload professionally and develop new cartridges.
10/7/2016 11:07:03 PM EDT
[#24]
That's enough guys.
10/8/2016 12:24:33 AM EDT
[#25]
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That's enough guys.
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I didn't mean ill intent, dry, but I didn't appreciate being called a liar.
10/8/2016 9:05:02 AM EDT
[#26]

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I didn't mean ill intent, dry, but I didn't appreciate being called a liar.
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Quoted:

That's enough guys.




I didn't mean ill intent, dry, but I didn't appreciate being called a liar.

Nobody does, but we must keep posts technical in nature or you are in the wrong forum.


This also goes for aaholland who started it.


From the conduct code;

SPECIFIC TO THE TECH FORUMS



The tech forums (Ar15,AK47,Handgun,Armory,Training,Outdoors) are more  "formal" and actions permitted in the GD forum aren't permitted there.  These forums are there to share information and as a result, trolling,  heated arguments, insulting others,etc won't be ignored.



Time to close this thread out.





 
10/8/2016 9:05:20 AM EDT
[#27]
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