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Posted: 8/29/2016 1:26:23 PM EDT
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I had some time to load several different loads in 9mm. I don't know if I went with too narrow of a spread, but I figured it can't hurt anything with the exception of wasted time which I had plenty of last night. I loaded up between my min and maximum tested loads in .1 grain increments. So that would be - 5.1 grains - 5.7 grains. Is that too thin of jump between loads? Should I have perhaps gone 5.1 to 5.3 to 5.5 etc? My second question - what's the method for testing loads for accuracy? Shooting like normal, on a bench with a sandbag or ? I plan to use a distance of 25 yards. I have a 100 rounds of each load. |
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Personally I would have started at 5.1 then 5.3, 5.5 etc and worked my way up.
And done about 20 each for accuracy testing and chrono, more than that seems like a waste of components to me. Then if you find one you like at 5.5 for example then that will give you a starting point and you can adjust to say 5.4 or 5.6 and go from there. But on the plus side at least you did something productive with your evening! 
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Nothing wrong with your .1gr increments.
I go wider myself with a simple math equations. I normaly load my minimum and maximum grains of a given load work up and fit 3 loads divided up equally in between. That gives me a ladder of 5. Then make ten completed rounds of each load. When I feel like making quick work I'll do the same with 1 load in between my max/min. and make 5 completed rounds each. . |
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I would have gone with .2 steps until just under max listed and done the .1 gr step on the last two charges. How to test depends how close you can hold and if you can call your shots. Most will test of a sand bag rest. (wrists on sandbags) I start at 15 yds offhand, if "most" of the holes don't touch, I don't bother with 25 yds. If they do, I move out to 25 yds. |
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Shoot it off a bench on sandbags at 25 yards.
Not your wrists on the sandbags, but the gun on the sandbags. You want to minimize the movement of the gun during this process, so it should be on the sandbags. The point of this is to eliminate any influence from the shooter (you), so you want the gun as firmly secured as possible. If your wrists are on the sandbags, it's too easy for you to introduce wiggle or shaking or something else when holding the gun and pressing the trigger. Those actions will cause shots to scatter, and you won't know if it's because you moved or the ammo is not accurate. |
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What will the load be used for ? ( target self defense )( how many guns ) what weight bullet ? I look in 3 manuals to see their accuracy load for that type and weight bullet ( they are usually fairly close )( in speed of load ) Starting below their accuracy speed, I use 0.2gr increments (for pistol ) until I get above their accuracy speed I will have 5 rounds per weight, per different powders for several guns I use a sand bag for a rest ( to eliminate any problems I have that day ) and will use a lot of targets labeled as to load and pistol An example is that I load for my son and granddaughter for IDPA 9MM, 115gr FMJ, concave base (they do not need a heavier bullet that would have more recoil ) minimum speed to knock down the steel targets consistently is 1100FPS ( slower for less recoil )( most commercial ammo is 1150FPS ) they need a FMJ for the Glocks used ( Glocks did not work well with lead and plated bullets ) I tested 6 different pistols, each at 0.2gr interval, with FMJ and FMJ concave base and 3 different powders settled on the 115gr, FMJ concave base, Win. 235 (burns cleanest ) at 1100FPS Then he found that load did not work ( accurately )with a new pistol it has a 2.75 inch barrel ( shorter barrel did not get the speed and went below the accuracy node ) he now has ammo for that pistol that has a faster speed ( 1150 FPS in a 5 inch barrel )( put that pistol back into the accuracy node ) |
For rifle I start at .3.....sometimes 
Then I weeded out the crappy parts of the "ladder" I load at .2 and do a OCW workup. Say... 24 24.2 24.4 24.6 24.8 find the good spot, say 24.6 Then work up another "ladder" for OCW using, in the example....24.6 so I load... 24.3 24.5 24.7 24.9 Then maybe the sweet spot is 24.7... and that verifies the 1st numbers load up a ... 24.5 24.6 24.7 24.8 and the time Iv fired the last test, its more or less been tested 3 times. Iv got to go shooting 3 times, and if I get weird results, and the numbers make no sense, try another powder/combo If its a new combo for me, I may or may not work up maybe 2 or 3 powder combos at the same time for the 1st trip out. Weed out the crap, off the top and not look back You to answer question.... I always go with .1 
But its easier to see results with .2 (even numbers first time, odd numbers the next) |
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For pistol I start with .5 gr increments (but also include 3-5 powders). I shoot2) 5-shot groups at 12 yds off a sandbag rest. Since I am not trying for Bullseye competition, and am more interested in defensive capability, 12 yds is good enough to start the eliminations with. Even then, different groups will print at different locations or will open up too much- if I were shooting 25yds many might not even hit the 8" target/1"dot I use. Once I find the best load (based on a number of factors) I may refine it from there with .1 or.2 increments. Rifle is a different matter. I still shoot 5 shot groups but do it at 200 and 300 yds and initial increments of .3 gr are normal for me. |
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Competitive pistol shooters (NRA Bullseye) will buy or borrow a Ransom rest. They have replaceable friction grips machine for specific handguns. They are very expensive and almost a requirement if you really want to fine tune loads.
I rarely shoot at 25 yards with a handgun and any "group" I fired at that range would tell me very little about my handgun or my load one way or the other. It would tell me plenty about my skills, or lack thereof. I simply don't shoot a handgun well enough to get any useful information at that range. I shot very well today with a 1911 .45acp. I used a load that was handed down to me almost 30 years ago. 5.2 grains of WW-231, Winchester large pistol primers, 200 grain H&G #68 bullets seated at 1.240". I shot knots dead center in the X-10 ring of a B-27 target and also clustered perfectly centered groups in the head area. I was only shooting at 30 feet, not 75 feet. This makes a huge difference in my experience. This load runs exactly 800 fps from my 1911. I load handgun ammo that is reasonably accurate, but do not put any effort into finding "the load". My criteria is: The load must be safe and published velocities never exceeded for any given load. I use the bullet manufacturer's manuals as my guide, my chronograph as the tool. The load has to be 100% reliable. It has to have enough oomph to cycle the action rain or shine, summer or winter. It has to group well enough at the short ranges to give me honest input about my performance. If it won't group well at 30 feet then something needs to be changed. Most any ammo can do this if the shooter has a moderate level of skill. I consider handguns as almost useless, the only redeeming value is that they can be carried concealed and available for immediate use should a threat arise. Despite my description of my skills, I am not a bad shot by any means. But everything you do gets magnified when firing a handgun, it's the nature of the beast. Extremely short sight radius and reduced recoil support (no stock, no sling, no cheek weld) makes for the lowest level of accuracy. It's much harder to discover if it's you, the gun or the load when performance is less than expected. |
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in 9mm, the most important thing is the jump to land distance,
So out the gate, work with the OAL of the round for each specific bullet, in each specific pistol, to get that ideal bullet jump to lands to begin with. 
Once you have this figured out, start off with 15 rounds each on your ladder, with say .5gr works up on the ladder. Now, with having a assortment of recoil springs, since you may have to change it out from weaker to stronger as you work up the loads in strength, break out the ransom rest rest to do your initial short strings. Hence the first 5 shots are just to make sure that you have the correct tension recoil spring in play free handing the pistol to is cycling/recovering correctly, then the other 10 rounds for groups out of the ransom rest. As your working up the ladder of load in the .5 grains, your going to find the break point of ideal groups with the correct recoil spring for that load, and then you can work down from where the groups starting opening up in the ladder to fine tune just under the break point. Also, if this pistol is going to be used for match shooting, it has to make 125MPF. So to figure this out, take 125,000, and decide it by the bullet weight, and this will be the min speed that the bullet has to chronic out of the pistol, This can be done during the first 5 rounds to make sure that you have the correct recoil spring tension in play for the load, and to check the deviations of speeds for the rounds as well. So if we take a 115 bullet, then 125,000/115 = 1087FPS to just make 125mpf. As for deviation in speed, your looking for a number under 15FPS for all 5 rounds if you are using mixed head stamp cases. |
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I will back up my test shots to 15 yards, vs. the 25 I was planning. I've seen that head space illustration above, saved it a while back actually, but now that I look at it closer I'm confused. Am I looking at top of the case rim, or the case portion below the rim? Also, the barrel in this illustration only has a top nub. I'm looking at CZ barrels and there is more raised area (I forget what they're called?) around the barrel than there is flat area. Maybe a picture is in order. If so let me know and I'll get one or two to throw up. |
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Just do the Plunk test, case mouth is what head space is about in a 9mm, your loaded rounds should drop in easy, you will hear the plunk when the mouth of the case hits the chamber, then double check it by trying to spin the loaded case in the chamber, then turn the barrel upside down and the loaded round falls out, all this with the case mouth not roll crimped, just the case mouth turned back in to where it was, simple test and it works and your gun will run. Quoted:
I will back up my test shots to 15 yards, vs. the 25 I was planning. I've seen that head space illustration above, saved it a while back actually, but now that I look at it closer I'm confused. Am I looking at top of the case rim, or the case portion below the rim? Also, the barrel in this illustration only has a top nub. I'm looking at CZ barrels and there is more raised area (I forget what they're called?) around the barrel than there is flat area. Maybe a picture is in order. If so let me know and I'll get one or two to throw up. |
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I test my reloads at the yardage I plan on using it at, IE If I plan on shooting 50ft bullseye I test @ 50ft. If I don't have a specific plan for the ammo I test everything @25yds.
Typical tests are done with a .2gr ladder test beginning with the starting load and working up to .2gr under max. Why .2gr increments??? Because most powder throws are +/- .1gr. Why .2gr under max??? Because with most powders (chronograph tested) there's what's know as diminished return, meaning you add more powder and there isn't any real gain in velocity. Typically the most accurate loads are either with powder charges at their peak performance levels or fast burning powders with enough powder to create enough pressure to seal the cylinders/chambers. Peak performance levels ='s when you do a ladder test with .2gr increments and shoot over a chronograph and see consistent gains in velocity (could be 40fps/50fps/etc). You will get to a point where you add more powder and the gains in velocity aren't as much. Where this happens with your ladder test is where the peak performance is for your powder/bullet combo. Slower burning powders tend to do this. Faster burning powders like bullseye, titegroup, clays tend to do their best when they have enough pressure to seal the cylinders/chamber and expand the bullet's base to seal the bore, adding more powder doesn't do anything for accuracy. What is acceptable accuracy??? To me It's the 10-ring on a nra target for the yardage your testing/shooting at. 50ft ='s .9" 25yds ='s 1.5" 50yds ='s 3.3" When I test semi-aouto I do 10-shot test groups When I test revolvers I do 6-shot test groups If I find a load that looks promising I retest that load with a 50 round sample. If that load passes the 50 round test I put that load in a log book for future use. A 10-shot test group with a nm 1911 chambered in 9mm. I was looking for a 50ft target load because I only shoot 50ft nra bullseye anymore. A 125gr hp/1100fps target load. 
Was testing some 38spl/revolver loads for shooting shotgun shells. Most people shoot bowling pins @ 25ft, we set 12ga shotgun shells up instead of bowling pins and shoot them @50ft. Same rules just shotgun hulls and 50ft instead of bowling pins and 25ft. These are 6-shot groups with 158gr hp's/950fps in 38spl cases. This makes excellent practice for shooting bowling pins 
Note the bullets are loaded long (bottom crimp groove), even though they are 38spl's they will be shot in a 357's. 2 of my favorite bowling pin guns. Trigger jobs, heavy bbl's with weights and muzzle breaks, target sights and finger grooved rubber grips. These pistols burn through piles of ammo in a hurry. Pictured with another plinking load (110gr wc/1200fps+) that will chew bugholes in targets. 
Most shooters don't think of the 44cal's as being a target caliber. From around 1900 to the 1930's the 44cal's were the caliber to use when target shooting with handguns. They are extremely accurate, some plinking loads for 629. Was looking for 25yd loads that were minute of golfball/1.5" @25yds nra 10-ring. Quit testing after I found 13 loads that would do 1.5" @25yds. Only tested 6 different bullets with 7 different powders. 
And yes I do have a 50ft bullseye load for the 45acp. A 10-shot 50ft test group from a nm 1911 chambered in 45acp, the boringly accurate h&g #68 and bullseye powder (200gr swc/780fps). 
I don't shoot shoot nra 25yd and 50yds bullseye anymore. Switched over to 10m/25/50m pistols events. A 10m (top) pellet pistol, 25m sport pistol/22lr (middle) & a 50m free pistol (botttom) also in 22lr. 
Custom grips fitted to the shooter, 4-way adjustable trigger, excellent target sights. What's not to like, world class pistols with world class accuracy. The only centerfire pistols I shoot past 25yds anymore is a contender. A picture of the contender setup for practicing 50m freepistol. The contender is allot heavier with the 10" long 9mm bull bbl and has a terrible extremely heavy 14oz trigger pull. But the combo of those 2 things make it an excellent choice to practice with, ie endurance and follow thru. 
And yes the 9mm is more accurate then most shooter think or give it credit for. A 10-shot @ 50yd test group with a 9mm when I was looking for a load for that contender to practice for 50m free pistol. 
Typically pistols are more accurate then the people that own/use them. When you reload you should be able to find extreme accuracy in the firearm you're reloading for. |
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Well, if there is any difference in the loads I tested I can't tell beyond the recoil. At 7 yards I could shoot five shots in one hole. At 16 yards I shot all shots in a 5" round target. I'm sure the issue is me, not the different powder charges in the bullets. We decided to stick with the 5.1 grain load for now mainly because my daughter (who couldn't wait to get to 5.7 grains) actually shoots better with it due to the lower recoil. A bonus is it is subsonic out of our pistols, but not the 7.7" CZ Scorpion barrel. Thanks for all the input. I'll refer back to this thread for a long time. |
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