Armory Sponsor
Posted: 7/3/2016 11:15:22 AM EDT
| I almost pulled the trigger on a 650 a little over a year ago and ended up waiting. I am now looking again. I would be mainly reloading rifle and would do most of my prep work before the progressive would be put to use. I may be wrong because I have never used a progressive but my plan would be to have the brass ready to go then use the progressive to prime, powder drop, seat bullet then crimp. What would be the best press for this method of operation and would I still be able to use my current powder drop and forester dies? Thanks |
|
If your plan is to use the press for only those operations, get a 550. Everything about a 550 is less expensive - initial purchase, tool heads, caliber conversions,...
The Dillon powder measures are very good performers and are well integrated into the system. Save your existing measure for off-press use(s). |
|
Can't answer all of your ?'s but will add that on my LNL I prime all of my cases as a single step. Too many times I've had a primer hiccup and have had to work the case out or actually remove the shell plate to clear a jam.
Wouldn't want to deal with some bullets being filled with powder or about to seat a bullet and have a stoppage due to primer issues. I'm sure others load in the order you describe but for me my method is best. |
|
I use a Hornady LnL progressive. The work flow is the same no matter the press.
For rifle I tumble my brass after the range. I then run it through the press to de-prime, size and trim. After this I tumble to clean off lube. I will usually process about 3-4000 cases before switching to loading. It might take me 3-4 visits to my press to complete this operation. After cases are processed I store them for later loading. I usually only have time to load 4-500 cases per sitting. When loading I prime as part of the operation. I have my press dialed in. I have a case feeder so I can process 500 per hour. I only load 2-300 per hour because I stop ever 100 or so to check powder drop accuracy and blow the press and of course load more primers and powder. Plus I like to watch the cases one last time for any defects as they drop. |
|
No matter what anyone says! They all have their right to think what they think! In reality well that is a whole different situation
#1 you are the quality control. If you pay attention and have good skills the ammo will be as good as it gets. #2 there are upgrades to 550 that enhance the reloaded ammo. Whidden Toolhead and clamps. Same for 650. the 550 would be the best option IMHO. #3 the Dillon PM depending on the powder can be balls on accurate, and it can darn close. Of course you can hook up a RL 450 Die and Powder measure adapter with a conventional powder measure if you want. |
|
Well, a kind of different opinion here. I have an XL650, set up now for 5.56/223. I like to load super-clean brass, which means that I deprime and wet tumble with stainless steel pins so as to clean out the primer pockets as well as shine up the brass. (Not everybody does this, but I do.) Primer crimp swaging is a separate operation, when needed.
I have an auto case feed on the XL-650 to speed things up big time, but it's not necessary because about 10 cases can be stacked in the tube that comes with it. Using several toolheads, I can do the following as discrete operations that go FAST. --Dump a bunch of moderately clean cases into the auto case feeder. Then, using a toolhead with only a decappng die installed in position one, I can decap several hundred cases in a short period of time. Every pull of the handle decaps a case. The shell plate fills up, rotates, and dumps decapped dies into the bin. Then I clean the cases via wet tumbling. --Using the cases I cleaned in the prior step, I lube them and then dump them into the case feeded. I use a toolhead with a sizing die in position one, and a Dillon RL-1500 trimmer in position 3 or 4, I do an initial resize and reshape of the case mouth, and then a final size and trim-to length. This is all one operation, though, just using two dies. After this step, I tumble the cases in dry, fine size corn cob (with a little alcohol added) to remove the case lube. Depending on how rough the trim ended up, I may clean again via wet tumbling. This is not common. --Then I use a third tool head with a decap die in position one (to remove any corn cob that stuck in the flash hole), and then prime and add powder, bullet, crimp as normal. These operations look time consuming. I find that they are much less time hogging than doing any of them on a single stage press. I know this because I have done it that way. This is what I do because I like it. But, your mileage will vary. |
|
Thanks for all the replies. The progressive would be used mainly for 300blk, 308 and 40 sw I also load up around 2000 223 every year for prairie dogs. Other calibers would remain on the single stage presses. I would definitely be interested in a case feeder and would also consider the case trimmer but I have gone through several case trimmers. I currently use the forester three in one that mounts to a drill press. It works well but it is slow and somewhat picky with 308 brass. I also currently use a rcbs powder drop with the precision dials and i use a scale to measure every tenth drop and it's still not perfect. With the method I use assuming the powder drop on the progressive is as accurate as the rcbs I don't see why my ammo couldn't be just as accurate with progressive. I'm just getting tired of pulling the handle about 6 or 7 times per round. I also currently mainly load with Varget but I'm trying different powders to find something that meters a little better I've been having pretty good luck with Cfe223
So from the replies I recieved I think a Dillon 550 with a case feeder may be the ticket |
| I'm a Dillon guy and I say definitely go Blue. I load 223 exactly as you describe. De-prime, size on a single stage, trim with Giraud trimmer, remove crimp with Dillon swager if necessary then into the 650 for primer, powder, bullet seat and crimp. I think the 550 or 650 would work well for you, the biggest difference will be the case feeder. If you're looking to spend a little less time at the press and budget is not a factor then go with the 650. If your trying to save a few bucks then I'm sure you'd be happy with the 550. One thing to note, you can add a case feeder to the 550, but I believe it only works on pistol cases. I have not regretted my 650 for a second. I would say the 2 best shooting related investments I've made are the 650 and then the Giraud trimmer. Both are fantastic tools. |
|
My honest opinion, go with the 650.
When prepping brass, de-priming, sizing, trimming, and now there seems to be a viable swage option for the 650 as well, you will want a true progressive. From what you describe I think the 650 is more what you're looking for. I spent a lot of wasted money and time finally getting to where I wanted to be, wish I had just gone to the 650 from the start. True I have since gone to a 1050,but might have kept the 650 if the Swage-it had been around, but the 650 will do what you want. |
|
I have three lee pro 1000s 9,40 the 223 and a lee load all 2 for 12 gauge are on the way I love lee products they are inexpensive and can run great after setting them up. The lee bench plate makes it super easy to install and if there is a sale even better! BUT as mentioned Dillion presses are top notch, even though I could afford the more expansive brands I decided to save and go with lee. low investment cost and the savings could go to supplies. good luck 
-jr |
|
Lee does make some good stuff, no question. I had a Loadmaster all set up, for pistol and .223, did a good job of everything but priming.
But as you state, You have 3 press's that You leave set up for a specific caliber. They work great that way, get all the bugs worked out, and all the proper tweaks and they run great. But converting them over to another caliber and getting them running is way more work then I needed to do. All I can say is if you want to run ALL Your calibers on one machine, I say it would be Blue. |
|
I'm biased, as I have a 650. I load 9MM, 223 and 300 BO (I do 45 ACP on my old Square Deal B, otherwise it would be done on the 650, too).
I faced the same 550/650 question. I choose the 650 for the automatic shellplate advance (too easy for me to forget to manually rotate the 550's shellplate) and the 5 die positions vs. 4. ETA: I didn't expect it, but I find the powder level checker in the fifth position to be very useful and reassuring. The 650 is more money, but in the long term the cost difference is negligible as compared to the reloading components you'll run through either press. Note: I'm not saying "get the 650" -- you need to assess your needs and how you work to figure out which is better suited to *your* way of operating. I'm just stating why I picked the 650. As for Dillon vs. the others, yeah, I'm a Blue fanboy -- excellent equipment backed by a 1st-class lifetime support. |
|
Anyone that is not a born tinkerer and with lots of patience should steer clear of Lee Progressive Presses! They are a tinker's wet dream! That's just plain God's Fact!
Lee support sucks! Any progressive press will have Fan Boys! Those with red get caught up in free bullets or conversions may be less etc, but adaptability and such well not so much! I know major reloading store that probably sells 20 XL650's /RL 550's/Super 1050's to every LNL AP press they sell. That speaks volumes! But, when the dust settles.... What color is it in the end for the vast majority? Blue! Dillon is right up there with their customer service. And, for those detractors there is always two sides to a story. Many detractors fail to provide full disclosure to all the points of contention and perhaps have UNREAL expectations. The world is not perfect and things do happen. But, by and large Dillon fixes things! One thing about progressive rifle reloading.....one should become anal about cleaning! Clean presses run better. And, to that end one should decap and resize off the progressive press with the idea of keeping debris off the machine. |
|
My breakdown of reloading goes like this.
Rifles calibers load on either a Forster Coax or Redding T7. .223 is a combo deal. I resize on a Single stage, trim on a giruad and then feed processed brass to my 550. .32, .38, .45 and misc pistol calibers get loaded on the 550. 1050 is dedicated to 9mm. Each tool has its strengths and drawbacks. A Single stage press and a 550 are a powerful combination that will cover almost every base in a very good order. Every thing else is chasing the unicorn of either increased automation, accuracy, speed or trying to stop cursing crimped in primers while my Jack Russell is near by. |
|
If you are looking at the case feeder option the 650 would be the best route. I went from the hornady progressive to the dillon because getting the case feeder to work properly on the hornady was more time consuming than anything. Since owning the 650 with case feeder I can say that it just works and in the long run their conversion kits are tailored for the round you are loading on the case feed system. To me the conversion kit are about the same price (the die bushings aren't cheap). If you are not looking at getting a case feeder then I would go with hornady. I would like to add I never had priming issues and a lot of people have had that issue with with the hornady.
If you plan on getting the 1200b trimmer you cannot trim 300blk on the Hornady Progressive, that was a kick in the nuts for me. |
|
Quoted:
My honest opinion, go with the 650. When prepping brass, de-priming, sizing, trimming, and now there seems to be a viable swage option for the 650 as well, you will want a true progressive. From what you describe I think the 650 is more what you're looking for. I spent a lot of wasted money and time finally getting to where I wanted to be, wish I had just gone to the 650 from the start. True I have since gone to a 1050,but might have kept the 650 if the Swage-it had been around, but the 650 will do what you want. All of this FTW!!! (except for swaging on the 650...it will kill your warranty) Just like a gun safe, buy bigger than what you think you will need. I found with reloading, buy once cry once, just like optics. I already had a 650, bought a 550 to do my precision .223 loads with, hated it, sold it, lost a little money, then bought another 650. Then I bought a 1050 just for blasting .223 ammo!!! Buy blue.....buy once cry once!!!! If you do any decent amount of shooting, go progressive and go casefeeder. Your time is worth something, right? |
|
I got a 650.
Before I made that decision, I looked at the 550, 650 and the 1050. The 550 was eliminated cause it was manual progressive not auto progressive and had no case feeder. I passed on the 1050 because of the cost of the caliber conversions and Dillon said the warranty was only good for a year since they considered it a "commercial" press. I've had my 650 going on fifteen years now and have been very happy with it. |
|
Quoted:
My honest opinion, go with the 650. When prepping brass, de-priming, sizing, trimming, and now there seems to be a viable swage option for the 650 as well, you will want a true progressive. From what you describe I think the 650 is more what you're looking for. I spent a lot of wasted money and time finally getting to where I wanted to be, wish I had just gone to the 650 from the start. True I have since gone to a 1050,but might have kept the 650 if the Swage-it had been around, but the 650 will do what you want. Adding a Swager voids warranty, doesn't it? One day I plan to get a progressive, and want a 1050 mainly for the swager. Hate to have to keep track of ALL my cases to make sure they have already been swaged. I also like the idea of adding the powder check etc. Lots of stuff to think about with progressives.... |
. I think I'm going with a 550 I may eventually get a 650 but I think a 550 will be perfect for me atm. Thanks a lot for all the help
Armory Sponsor