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Posted: 4/9/2016 10:45:36 AM EDT
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Recently I moved from FMJBT to FMJ Varmint, and I noticed a difference when seating them in the 223 case. The Boat tails are easy to seat because of the design of the bullet, but the Varmint is pretty much straight-walled and I cant start them into the case by hand; I have to balance them on top and let the press center and push them in. This usually works fine, but every so often the angle of entry is just a hair crooked inside the die and the bullet scrapes the neck case so badly going in that I get copper shavings.
Should I be concerned about this scraping? Will it effect accuracy? Also I know that when I load my 9mm I have an expander die that makes dropping in bullets easy, but there does not seem to be such a die for 223 (I use LEE Dies), so does anyone have any tips, tricks or different processes for seating 223 bullets easily? |
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I used to have the same trouble when loading .224 55gr V-Max bullets because of the flat base. Started using an RCBS VLD Champfer tool during my case prep and the trouble went away.
RCBS VLD Champfer Tool. I also use a Forster Seating Die, which holds the bullet in alignment while seating... Forster Seating Die |
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You should chamfer the case mouth and that makes seating flat base bullets easier. If you had Hornady dies, the bullet seating sleeve aligns the bullet before the die starts seating the bullet. Couple of other brands of dies have something similar. Without this you hold the bullet with your fingers and align the bullet as it goes into the seating die. Yes it's important to accuracy to seat the bullet straight without scraping off part of the jacket.  Top die in this pic shows the bullet alignment sleeve. |
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I use a 45 degree and a 60 degree VLD (very low drag) cutter when prepping my brass. This takes care of any shaving issues.
Some people who load on progressive presses do use a mouth expanding die like what is used for pistol and cast bullet rifle loading. I would not bother with this using a single stage press for jacketed .223 ammo. If you make sure that the inside of the case neck is de burred and that your de burring cutter is not making a burr of it's own, which is why I use the 60 degree to finish, you shouldn't have any problems. Motor |
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Quoted:
Recently I moved from FMJBT to FMJ Varmint, and I noticed a difference when seating them in the 223 case. The Boat tails are easy to seat because of the design of the bullet, but the Varmint is pretty much straight-walled and I cant start them into the case by hand; I have to balance them on top and let the press center and push them in. This usually works fine, but every so often the angle of entry is just a hair crooked inside the die and the bullet scrapes the neck case so badly going in that I get copper shavings. Should I be concerned about this scraping? Will it effect accuracy? Also I know that when I load my 9mm I have an expander die that makes dropping in bullets easy, but there does not seem to be such a die for 223 (I use LEE Dies), so does anyone have any tips, tricks or different processes for seating 223 bullets easily? Sir, there are a few points I would I would like to add to what has already been posted in response to your question. First, the VLD champfer tool is a simple solution to the scrapping problem but I have found that my Giraud trimmer does the same thing given proper adjustment of the cutter blade. I have used a lyman VLD champfer tool but since I learned how to adjust the cutter blade properly seldom use it anymore. Another point that goes along with the first is the inside diameter of the case neck. In my experience a diameter that is between .002" and .003" less than the OD of the bullet is adequate neck tension to hold the bullet when seated. Excessive neck tension, ie: more than mentioned above, can lead to accuracy problems and contribute to the shaving of copper you mention especially with flat based bullets. Most commercial resizing dies on the market resize the case neck OD leaving the ID smaller than it really needs to be. Before I seat my bullets I expand the case neck ID with the expander mandrel Sinclair Int. sells. Without going down and actually measuring mine with my mic I believe the mandrel OD is .221". Lastly, I have used a Forester Ultra seater die for other cartridges for years and really like the high quality. However, for .223 Rem. I use a Redding competition seating die. I've never used any of the Hornady products. HTH, 7zero1. |
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Quoted:
Sir, there are a few points I would I would like to add to what has already been posted in response to your question. First, the VLD champfer tool is a simple solution to the scrapping problem but I have found that my Giraud trimmer does the same thing given proper adjustment of the cutter blade. I have used a lyman VLD champfer tool but since I learned how to adjust the cutter blade properly seldom use it anymore. Another point that goes along with the first is the inside diameter of the case neck. In my experience a diameter that is between .002" and .003" less than the OD of the bullet is adequate neck tension to hold the bullet when seated. Excessive neck tension, ie: more than mentioned above, can lead to accuracy problems and contribute to the shaving of copper you mention especially with flat based bullets. Most commercial resizing dies on the market resize the case neck OD leaving the ID smaller than it really needs to be. Before I seat my bullets I expand the case neck ID with the expander mandrel Sinclair Int. sells. Without going down and actually measuring mine with my mic I believe the mandrel OD is .221". Lastly, I have used a Forester Ultra seater die for other cartridges for years and really like the high quality. However, for .223 Rem. I use a Redding competition seating die. I've never used any of the Hornady products. HTH, 7zero1. Quoted:
Quoted:
Recently I moved from FMJBT to FMJ Varmint, and I noticed a difference when seating them in the 223 case. The Boat tails are easy to seat because of the design of the bullet, but the Varmint is pretty much straight-walled and I cant start them into the case by hand; I have to balance them on top and let the press center and push them in. This usually works fine, but every so often the angle of entry is just a hair crooked inside the die and the bullet scrapes the neck case so badly going in that I get copper shavings. Should I be concerned about this scraping? Will it effect accuracy? Also I know that when I load my 9mm I have an expander die that makes dropping in bullets easy, but there does not seem to be such a die for 223 (I use LEE Dies), so does anyone have any tips, tricks or different processes for seating 223 bullets easily? Sir, there are a few points I would I would like to add to what has already been posted in response to your question. First, the VLD champfer tool is a simple solution to the scrapping problem but I have found that my Giraud trimmer does the same thing given proper adjustment of the cutter blade. I have used a lyman VLD champfer tool but since I learned how to adjust the cutter blade properly seldom use it anymore. Another point that goes along with the first is the inside diameter of the case neck. In my experience a diameter that is between .002" and .003" less than the OD of the bullet is adequate neck tension to hold the bullet when seated. Excessive neck tension, ie: more than mentioned above, can lead to accuracy problems and contribute to the shaving of copper you mention especially with flat based bullets. Most commercial resizing dies on the market resize the case neck OD leaving the ID smaller than it really needs to be. Before I seat my bullets I expand the case neck ID with the expander mandrel Sinclair Int. sells. Without going down and actually measuring mine with my mic I believe the mandrel OD is .221". Lastly, I have used a Forester Ultra seater die for other cartridges for years and really like the high quality. However, for .223 Rem. I use a Redding competition seating die. I've never used any of the Hornady products. HTH, 7zero1. Welcome back 7zero1, the forum appreciates your input. |
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Ok, I went out to Gander, got a Lyman Hand Chamfer tool, 20' VLD. Used it on 200 prepared rounds and I must say, it did work wonders! The varmint loads press in nice and smoothly now with no scraping in all 200 rounds, so I will say this problem is SOLVED for now :)
Thanks for all the awesome advice. sfraden |
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Quoted:
Sir, there are a few points I would I would like to add to what has already been posted in response to your question. First, the VLD champfer tool is a simple solution to the scrapping problem but I have found that my Giraud trimmer does the same thing given proper adjustment of the cutter blade. I have used a lyman VLD champfer tool but since I learned how to adjust the cutter blade properly seldom use it anymore. Another point that goes along with the first is the inside diameter of the case neck. In my experience a diameter that is between .002" and .003" less than the OD of the bullet is adequate neck tension to hold the bullet when seated. Excessive neck tension, ie: more than mentioned above, can lead to accuracy problems and contribute to the shaving of copper you mention especially with flat based bullets. Most commercial resizing dies on the market resize the case neck OD leaving the ID smaller than it really needs to be. Before I seat my bullets I expand the case neck ID with the expander mandrel Sinclair Int. sells. Without going down and actually measuring mine with my mic I believe the mandrel OD is .221". Lastly, I have used a Forester Ultra seater die for other cartridges for years and really like the high quality. However, for .223 Rem. I use a Redding competition seating die. I've never used any of the Hornady products. HTH, 7zero1. Quoted:
Quoted:
Recently I moved from FMJBT to FMJ Varmint, and I noticed a difference when seating them in the 223 case. The Boat tails are easy to seat because of the design of the bullet, but the Varmint is pretty much straight-walled and I cant start them into the case by hand; I have to balance them on top and let the press center and push them in. This usually works fine, but every so often the angle of entry is just a hair crooked inside the die and the bullet scrapes the neck case so badly going in that I get copper shavings. Should I be concerned about this scraping? Will it effect accuracy? Also I know that when I load my 9mm I have an expander die that makes dropping in bullets easy, but there does not seem to be such a die for 223 (I use LEE Dies), so does anyone have any tips, tricks or different processes for seating 223 bullets easily? Sir, there are a few points I would I would like to add to what has already been posted in response to your question. First, the VLD champfer tool is a simple solution to the scrapping problem but I have found that my Giraud trimmer does the same thing given proper adjustment of the cutter blade. I have used a lyman VLD champfer tool but since I learned how to adjust the cutter blade properly seldom use it anymore. Another point that goes along with the first is the inside diameter of the case neck. In my experience a diameter that is between .002" and .003" less than the OD of the bullet is adequate neck tension to hold the bullet when seated. Excessive neck tension, ie: more than mentioned above, can lead to accuracy problems and contribute to the shaving of copper you mention especially with flat based bullets. Most commercial resizing dies on the market resize the case neck OD leaving the ID smaller than it really needs to be. Before I seat my bullets I expand the case neck ID with the expander mandrel Sinclair Int. sells. Without going down and actually measuring mine with my mic I believe the mandrel OD is .221". Lastly, I have used a Forester Ultra seater die for other cartridges for years and really like the high quality. However, for .223 Rem. I use a Redding competition seating die. I've never used any of the Hornady products. HTH, 7zero1. I also like to hit the necks with a M-Die , it's just part of brass prep, it sits in station 8 to fix the necks from trimming with the rt1500 |
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Quoted:
I also like to hit the necks with a M-Die , it's just part of brass prep, it sits in station 8 to fix the necks from trimming with the rt1500 Quoted:
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Quoted:
Recently I moved from FMJBT to FMJ Varmint, and I noticed a difference when seating them in the 223 case. The Boat tails are easy to seat because of the design of the bullet, but the Varmint is pretty much straight-walled and I cant start them into the case by hand; I have to balance them on top and let the press center and push them in. This usually works fine, but every so often the angle of entry is just a hair crooked inside the die and the bullet scrapes the neck case so badly going in that I get copper shavings. Should I be concerned about this scraping? Will it effect accuracy? Also I know that when I load my 9mm I have an expander die that makes dropping in bullets easy, but there does not seem to be such a die for 223 (I use LEE Dies), so does anyone have any tips, tricks or different processes for seating 223 bullets easily? Sir, there are a few points I would I would like to add to what has already been posted in response to your question. First, the VLD champfer tool is a simple solution to the scrapping problem but I have found that my Giraud trimmer does the same thing given proper adjustment of the cutter blade. I have used a lyman VLD champfer tool but since I learned how to adjust the cutter blade properly seldom use it anymore. Another point that goes along with the first is the inside diameter of the case neck. In my experience a diameter that is between .002" and .003" less than the OD of the bullet is adequate neck tension to hold the bullet when seated. Excessive neck tension, ie: more than mentioned above, can lead to accuracy problems and contribute to the shaving of copper you mention especially with flat based bullets. Most commercial resizing dies on the market resize the case neck OD leaving the ID smaller than it really needs to be. Before I seat my bullets I expand the case neck ID with the expander mandrel Sinclair Int. sells. Without going down and actually measuring mine with my mic I believe the mandrel OD is .221". Lastly, I have used a Forester Ultra seater die for other cartridges for years and really like the high quality. However, for .223 Rem. I use a Redding competition seating die. I've never used any of the Hornady products. HTH, 7zero1. I also like to hit the necks with a M-Die , it's just part of brass prep, it sits in station 8 to fix the necks from trimming with the rt1500 I do the same, also with a Lyman M Die, in an XL650. just the minimum touch needed. |
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Quoted:
You should chamfer the case mouth and that makes seating flat base bullets easier. If you had Hornady dies, the bullet seating sleeve aligns the bullet before the die starts seating the bullet. Couple of other brands of dies have something similar. Without this you hold the bullet with your fingers and align the bullet as it goes into the seating die. Yes it's important to accuracy to seat the bullet straight without scraping off part of the jacket. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Dies/P6260188.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Dies/P6260188.jpg</a> Top die in this pic shows the bullet alignment sleeve. This^ Long ago I had the same issues with seating flat base bullets. Thanks to advice here I started chamfering and using the Hornady seating die, trouble went away. The Hornady die also seats "tipped" bullets better(I assume thanks to ogive design) vs the Lee I was using. The Lee would handle FMJ & SP's fine but I always struggled seating v-max deep enough, I like my OAL of finished rds to be 2.20". |
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Quoted:
Welcome back 7zero1, the forum appreciates your input. Quoted:
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Quoted:
Recently I moved from FMJBT to FMJ Varmint, and I noticed a difference when seating them in the 223 case. The Boat tails are easy to seat because of the design of the bullet, but the Varmint is pretty much straight-walled and I cant start them into the case by hand; I have to balance them on top and let the press center and push them in. This usually works fine, but every so often the angle of entry is just a hair crooked inside the die and the bullet scrapes the neck case so badly going in that I get copper shavings. Should I be concerned about this scraping? Will it effect accuracy? Also I know that when I load my 9mm I have an expander die that makes dropping in bullets easy, but there does not seem to be such a die for 223 (I use LEE Dies), so does anyone have any tips, tricks or different processes for seating 223 bullets easily? Sir, there are a few points I would I would like to add to what has already been posted in response to your question. First, the VLD champfer tool is a simple solution to the scrapping problem but I have found that my Giraud trimmer does the same thing given proper adjustment of the cutter blade. I have used a lyman VLD champfer tool but since I learned how to adjust the cutter blade properly seldom use it anymore. Another point that goes along with the first is the inside diameter of the case neck. In my experience a diameter that is between .002" and .003" less than the OD of the bullet is adequate neck tension to hold the bullet when seated. Excessive neck tension, ie: more than mentioned above, can lead to accuracy problems and contribute to the shaving of copper you mention especially with flat based bullets. Most commercial resizing dies on the market resize the case neck OD leaving the ID smaller than it really needs to be. Before I seat my bullets I expand the case neck ID with the expander mandrel Sinclair Int. sells. Without going down and actually measuring mine with my mic I believe the mandrel OD is .221". Lastly, I have used a Forester Ultra seater die for other cartridges for years and really like the high quality. However, for .223 Rem. I use a Redding competition seating die. I've never used any of the Hornady products. HTH, 7zero1. Welcome back 7zero1, the forum appreciates your input. Sir, I'm here more than you think, I just refrain from posting unless I think I can make a positive contribution to what has already been posted. I appreciate your comment. 7zero1 out. |
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Quoted: Sir, I'm here more than you think, I just refrain from posting unless I think I can make a positive contribution to what has already been posted. I appreciate your comment. 7zero1 out. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Recently I moved from FMJBT to FMJ Varmint, and I noticed a difference when seating them in the 223 case. The Boat tails are easy to seat because of the design of the bullet, but the Varmint is pretty much straight-walled and I cant start them into the case by hand; I have to balance them on top and let the press center and push them in. This usually works fine, but every so often the angle of entry is just a hair crooked inside the die and the bullet scrapes the neck case so badly going in that I get copper shavings. Should I be concerned about this scraping? Will it effect accuracy? Also I know that when I load my 9mm I have an expander die that makes dropping in bullets easy, but there does not seem to be such a die for 223 (I use LEE Dies), so does anyone have any tips, tricks or different processes for seating 223 bullets easily? Sir, there are a few points I would I would like to add to what has already been posted in response to your question. First, the VLD champfer tool is a simple solution to the scrapping problem but I have found that my Giraud trimmer does the same thing given proper adjustment of the cutter blade. I have used a lyman VLD champfer tool but since I learned how to adjust the cutter blade properly seldom use it anymore. Another point that goes along with the first is the inside diameter of the case neck. In my experience a diameter that is between .002" and .003" less than the OD of the bullet is adequate neck tension to hold the bullet when seated. Excessive neck tension, ie: more than mentioned above, can lead to accuracy problems and contribute to the shaving of copper you mention especially with flat based bullets. Most commercial resizing dies on the market resize the case neck OD leaving the ID smaller than it really needs to be. Before I seat my bullets I expand the case neck ID with the expander mandrel Sinclair Int. sells. Without going down and actually measuring mine with my mic I believe the mandrel OD is .221". Lastly, I have used a Forester Ultra seater die for other cartridges for years and really like the high quality. However, for .223 Rem. I use a Redding competition seating die. I've never used any of the Hornady products. HTH, 7zero1. Welcome back 7zero1, the forum appreciates your input. Sir, I'm here more than you think, I just refrain from posting unless I think I can make a positive contribution to what has already been posted. I appreciate your comment. 7zero1 out. Just want to add to what borderpatrol said, your posts are welcome in any thread. |
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