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Posted: 4/5/2016 9:07:41 PM EDT
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Does anyone do this? I recently had a stuck case in a 8mm die.
Managed to get the case out, but had other problems with the recapping stem and expander ball. I have a universal decapper, and decided to try sizing without the other stuff. Came out fine. Made a dummy round and it fit into the chamber no problem. Is this a common thing to do? Thanks. |
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Lube the inside of the case necks, so the expander pulls thru with less drag. Most standard full length dies need the expander. This is because the neck is sized down way more then needed. As much as .010" to much. Very hard to seat a flat base bullet with no expander. A boatail bullet can act as an expander, but may hurt accuracy. |
I've pretty much exclusively resize without an expander on both my 223 and 308 loads. I just use a universal decapper first. The neck tension is no doubt well above what is needed/desired, but I actually get very good accuracy with it that way. I also anneal every firing and never crimp, so maybe it evens out somehow.  I got an average .426" (308) groups for the past couple weeks. It's usually about that, but I typically don't measure. I've been on a "getting back to basics" kick lately and plan on reexamining my entire process as I contemplate getting into F-TR with both 308 and 223. |
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With a standard sizing die, the sizing die over squeezes the case neck. When case is withdrawn the expander button returns the neck to the proper dimension for good neck tension. (why is called an expander button) Without the expanding, you may not be able to start a flat base bullet and you will have way too much neck tension. Contact the die maker and get a new expanding stem. Then get a stuck case removal kit so you won'y damage your die next time. |
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Quoted:
I've pretty much exclusively resize without an expander on both my 223 and 308 loads. I just use a universal decapper first. The neck tension is no doubt well above what is needed/desired, but I actually get very good accuracy with it that way. I also anneal every firing and never crimp, so maybe it evens out somehow.
I got an average .426" (308) groups for the past couple weeks. It's usually about that, but I typically don't measure. I've been on a "getting back to basics" kick lately and plan on reexamining my entire process as I contemplate getting into F-TR with both 308 and 223. I've seen this too, but don't regularly load ammo this way. |
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Quoted:
I don't use the expander ball, decap with Universal die then expand with Lyman M die. For bulk 308 and 223, I am essentially doing the same since the Dillon trim (sizing die) does not have expander ball. I use M die when I am actually loading rounds as sometimes I flare a tad with lyman (for cast or flat base bullet feeding). |
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I removed expander from my Lee .223 and .308 sizing dies.
Neck tension is not too much, and cases don't get 'stretched' as much so less trimming required. BUT I only use Lake City brass for .223 loads and majority of .308 loads. The consistency of the brass helps reduce any potential for problems from too high neck tension. I think I'm getting around .003" on .223 and .004"-.005" on .308. |
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I use a Redding Type S bushing full length sizing die and I do not use the expander ball Me too. If you use a bushing die, I don't see any reason to use the ball. If you use a normal FL die without the expander ball, you'll likely end up with excessive neck tension as Dryflash said. But if you can get the bullet started and seated without crushing the case neck, etc., your ammo ought to still be fine without using the expander ball. |
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Quoted:
Me too. If you use a bushing die, I don't see any reason to use the ball. If you use a normal FL die without the expander ball, you'll likely end up with excessive neck tension as Dryflash said. But if you can get the bullet started and seated without crushing the case neck, etc., your ammo ought to still be fine without using the expander ball. Quoted:
Quoted:
I use a Redding Type S bushing full length sizing die and I do not use the expander ball Me too. If you use a bushing die, I don't see any reason to use the ball. If you use a normal FL die without the expander ball, you'll likely end up with excessive neck tension as Dryflash said. But if you can get the bullet started and seated without crushing the case neck, etc., your ammo ought to still be fine without using the expander ball. With the Type S die, you get to select the neck size, not so with a regular die. That excessive sizing kills case life and you end up using your bullets as the neck expander ball. The other thing about not using an expander is the neck wall defects end up on the inside of the case neck. If your brass is uniform, this is a non-issue. If you are using inexpensive, nasty brass (like some PMC I once had) it can be a real issue. Personally, I don't like the idea of using an expensive, soft, precision bullet as my neck expander. The Type S Full Length Sizing die may be expensive but it is the most versatile die on the market. Also, because it can be used in so many different ways, you can really learn a lot about the sizing process if you sit there and "play" (experiment) with one. |
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I've done away with the expander ball in the search for ever more accuracy. I believe the expander ball is the main cause of run out on case necks. I've made a die with an expander plug to give the neck tension I want, it's very smooth to use and is kind to the case.
Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTW20NzZ-OA |
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Quoted:
I've done away with the expander ball in the search for ever more accuracy. I believe the expander ball is the main cause of run out on case necks. I've made a die with an expander plug to give the neck tension I want, it's very smooth to use and is kind to the case. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTW20NzZ-OA Wow! Very nicely done. |
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Quoted:
I've done away with the expander ball in the search for ever more accuracy. I believe the expander ball is the main cause of run out on case necks. I've made a die with an expander plug to give the neck tension I want, it's very smooth to use and is kind to the case. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTW20NzZ-OA Nice! Sinclair sells dies that hold expander mandrels if anyone wants to go that route. I have them in 223, 6mm and 305. They work very well. |
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