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Posted: 10/13/2015 6:34:50 PM EDT
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I have just started reloading for 338 Lapua mag. I purchased a RCBS full length sizing die with a neck sizing bushing. My plan is to use the full length sizing die to only bump the shoulder back and resize the neck. Even with the die screwed in until my press cams over only 1/3 of the neck is being sized by the bushing.I understand the neck bushing retainer can be backed off to allow for only partial neck sizing but mine is not backed off at all. I think more of the neck should be resized but don't see how. Any ideas? This is my first time using a die with neck sizing bushings so I may be missing something obvious. If you were wondering the press is a Dillon 550B.
Thank You, MBanning |
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Do you have a Hornady Head & Shoulders gage set? If not, buy one. Use it to measure the shoulder set back. Report that value here.
Have you tried to chamber a sized case? The partially sized case neck is used to center the front end of the case in the chamber. It's been fire formed to your chamber. Still, sizing only 1/3 its length sounds like not enough and causes concern about whether the shoulder is being pushed back at all. P.S. - a 338 LM is a monster case for a 550B. Use Imperial Sizing Wax when resizing, inside the case neck, too. |
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Bushing dies do not move the shoulder.
They are normally used with a body die when a shoulder require moving. A body die does not touch the neck. Bushing dies are often set up for only part of the neck. This leaves a section of the neck to help center up the case in the chamber. |
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I have never seen a full length sizing die that uses a bushing. The full length die sizes the whole case. The bushing die uses the proper neck bushing and does not touch the rest of the case. On Redding bushing dies you adjust the amount of neck that is sized by
screwing down the decapping stem. |
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I have never seen a full length sizing die that uses a bushing. The full length die sizes the whole case. The bushing die uses the proper neck bushing and does not touch the rest of the case. On Redding bushing dies you adjust the amount of neck that is sized by screwing down the decapping stem. Redding Type S Bushing Full Length Sizer Die 223 Remington |
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Yes RCBS makes a full length bushing die. Could not find out how much of the neck is sized with the bushing.
I would assume most if not all but I do not know why you would need to. These Full Length Sizer Dies use precision-machined neck bushings (sold separately) to size the case neck just enough provide the exact amount of bullet tension without overworking the brass. To determine the proper neck bushing size, measure the outside neck diameter of a loaded cartridge and subtract .002" to .003" to allow for a small amount of brass spring back. By removing the neck bushing, the Full Length sizing die can be used as a "bump" die to set headspace back the desired a.mount without disturbing the case neck. Shellholder sold separately. Link to Midway selling the RCBS full length bushing die |
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Yes RCBS makes a full length bushing die. Could not find out how much of the neck is sized with the bushing. I would assume most if not all but I do not know why you would need to. These Full Length Sizer Dies use precision-machined neck bushings (sold separately) to size the case neck just enough provide the exact amount of bullet tension without overworking the brass. To determine the proper neck bushing size, measure the outside neck diameter of a loaded cartridge and subtract .002" to .003" to allow for a small amount of brass spring back. By removing the neck bushing, the Full Length sizing die can be used as a "bump" die to set headspace back the desired a.mount without disturbing the case neck. Shellholder sold separately. Link to Midway selling the RCBS full length bushing die A solution in search of a problem. |
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A solution in search of a problem. Quoted:
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Yes RCBS makes a full length bushing die. Could not find out how much of the neck is sized with the bushing. I would assume most if not all but I do not know why you would need to. These Full Length Sizer Dies use precision-machined neck bushings (sold separately) to size the case neck just enough provide the exact amount of bullet tension without overworking the brass. To determine the proper neck bushing size, measure the outside neck diameter of a loaded cartridge and subtract .002" to .003" to allow for a small amount of brass spring back. By removing the neck bushing, the Full Length sizing die can be used as a "bump" die to set headspace back the desired a.mount without disturbing the case neck. Shellholder sold separately. Link to Midway selling the RCBS full length bushing die A solution in search of a problem. Why post something like that if you offer no supporting evidence? Why is having perfect neck tension for your load a bad thing? Fine.. plinking rounds dont need but everything helps when shooting out to 1k.. |
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AeroE and Trollslayer Thanks! I had not gotten to checking headspace yet when I ran into this problem. I ran the die down until the press would cam over and wrongly assumed I was full length sizing. I have not even touched the shoulders yet.
My die is contacting the raised portion of the Dillon shell plate. All my other dies have the threads machined off at the bottom. This RCBS sizing die has full threads all the way to the bottom causing the outer diameter to be too large to fit in the relieved, lower area of the shell plate. I feel foolish for not seeing this before. If I planned on full length sizing and had not noticed the amount of neck being sized this could have led to some hard to chamber reloads. This is a good reminder to always use my Hornady headspace gauge. I guess I will call RCBS and see if they missed a step. I have a friend with a metal working lathe as well so I can make it work. Trollslayer, I have always used Dillon spray lube with good results. I have only half ass sized 1 piece of 338LM though. Is the Imperial sizing wax going to make it that much easier? Honest question, I have never tried it. Thank you again, MBanning |
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Bushing dies do not move the shoulder. Quoted:
Bushing dies do not move the shoulder. Wrong! 
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I have never seen a full length sizing die that uses a bushing. Wrong!
I'm just goofing around with your posts. As pointed out earlier, Redding has been making Type S Full Length Sizing Dies for a long time (over a decade). I have them. I like them. They are a very versatile die - body die, neck-only die FL die, decapper, all in one. |
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Always make sure you have brass in all 4 stations of your 550 when sizing brass. If you change brand of brass in a reloading session, you may need a slight adjustment. Rim thickness varies a lot with the various brands of brass out there.
There is a conversion out there for the 550 to convert it to a single stage press, and this might work well for you to allow for better control over your sizing operations. A smarter idea is to get a Redding body die for bumping the shoulder, and then use your busing die as a neck sizer. Much akin to the just buying a Redding Type S Match Neck Die set with Body die, Type S Neck die, and a Competition Seater. |
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I own full length bushing type dies and neck sizer only dies, plus body only dies.
As for the Imperial Sizing Die Wax, it's simply great stuff. Some users will complain that it's slow, but there are two methods available to speed that up and they are explained in the tacked thread at the top of the forum, one is 7zero1's method, which I use, and the other was submitted by someone else who I forget. A small tin sizes thousands of small cases, but that big Lapua case is going to use it up a little quicker, so you might want to buy two tins. I'm still not certain about the exact issue with the die in this thead, the last description makes me think it missed a trim and deburr operation to finish the machining. RCBS will make it right in any case. |
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A smarter idea is to get a Redding body die for bumping the shoulder, and then use your busing die as a neck sizer. Much akin to the just buying a Redding Type S Match Neck Die set with Body die, Type S Neck die, and a Competition Seater. Why should he do that when he already has a full length sizing die that uses a bushing to size the neck? Are you suggesting there is some advantage to that? It sounded as if he got a defective die and needs to get replacement from RCBS. |
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Why post something like that if you offer no supporting evidence? Why is having perfect neck tension for your load a bad thing? Fine.. plinking rounds dont need but everything helps when shooting out to 1k.. Quoted:
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Yes RCBS makes a full length bushing die. Could not find out how much of the neck is sized with the bushing. I would assume most if not all but I do not know why you would need to. These Full Length Sizer Dies use precision-machined neck bushings (sold separately) to size the case neck just enough provide the exact amount of bullet tension without overworking the brass. To determine the proper neck bushing size, measure the outside neck diameter of a loaded cartridge and subtract .002" to .003" to allow for a small amount of brass spring back. By removing the neck bushing, the Full Length sizing die can be used as a "bump" die to set headspace back the desired a.mount without disturbing the case neck. Shellholder sold separately. Link to Midway selling the RCBS full length bushing die A solution in search of a problem. Why post something like that if you offer no supporting evidence? Why is having perfect neck tension for your load a bad thing? Fine.. plinking rounds dont need but everything helps when shooting out to 1k.. It offers nothing new except another chance to remove money from your wallet. Go forth and spend. |
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It offers nothing new except another chance to remove money from your wallet. Go forth and spend. Quoted:
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Yes RCBS makes a full length bushing die. Could not find out how much of the neck is sized with the bushing. I would assume most if not all but I do not know why you would need to. These Full Length Sizer Dies use precision-machined neck bushings (sold separately) to size the case neck just enough provide the exact amount of bullet tension without overworking the brass. To determine the proper neck bushing size, measure the outside neck diameter of a loaded cartridge and subtract .002" to .003" to allow for a small amount of brass spring back. By removing the neck bushing, the Full Length sizing die can be used as a "bump" die to set headspace back the desired a.mount without disturbing the case neck. Shellholder sold separately. Link to Midway selling the RCBS full length bushing die A solution in search of a problem. Why post something like that if you offer no supporting evidence? Why is having perfect neck tension for your load a bad thing? Fine.. plinking rounds dont need but everything helps when shooting out to 1k.. It offers nothing new except another chance to remove money from your wallet. Go forth and spend. Not true you could full length size the body of the brass, and still adjust the amount of tension you are placing on the bullet. |
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Not true you could full length size the body of the brass, and still adjust the amount of tension you are placing on the bullet. Quoted:
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Yes RCBS makes a full length bushing die. Could not find out how much of the neck is sized with the bushing. I would assume most if not all but I do not know why you would need to. These Full Length Sizer Dies use precision-machined neck bushings (sold separately) to size the case neck just enough provide the exact amount of bullet tension without overworking the brass. To determine the proper neck bushing size, measure the outside neck diameter of a loaded cartridge and subtract .002" to .003" to allow for a small amount of brass spring back. By removing the neck bushing, the Full Length sizing die can be used as a "bump" die to set headspace back the desired a.mount without disturbing the case neck. Shellholder sold separately. Link to Midway selling the RCBS full length bushing die A solution in search of a problem. Why post something like that if you offer no supporting evidence? Why is having perfect neck tension for your load a bad thing? Fine.. plinking rounds dont need but everything helps when shooting out to 1k.. It offers nothing new except another chance to remove money from your wallet. Go forth and spend. Not true you could full length size the body of the brass, and still adjust the amount of tension you are placing on the bullet. +1... dont knock it till u tried it. |
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I don't have RCBS's bushing die but I do have Redding's. I can adjust the amount, or depth if you prefer of the case neck being sized by screwing the die up or down more.
Never snug the bushing all the way to the bottom, they need to float so they center on the neck. If I shake the die in my hand I can hear the bushing move. Your headspace needs to be established first, then use the neck die to establish neck tension. I feel you would want to full length resize a .338 Lapua because the case is so large any resistance to the bolt closing is going to be problematic. If only neck sizing I would resize most of the neck because of the recoil being produced. Bench rest competitors usually resize 1/3 of the neck for PPC and similar rounds. The .338 is an entirely different animal. |
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I'll tell you why I use neck bushing dies.
Let me preface this by stating that I was appalled by how much the case necks were being worked by standard dies. I resized a case in my FL die (sans decapper and expander ball). I measured the diameter of the case neck before and after the die sized down the neck. I don't remember the number but the die scrunches down the neck a huge amount. The expander ball then stretches it back out that same amount. If you wonder why your brass splits so early, you should really try that experiment. It also explains the prevalence of case neck annealing machines amongst those who value long brass life. I wonder what is the cost of a 338 LM case. I bet our OP would also appreciate long case life. I use bushing dies to limit how much cold-working of the necks occurs during resizing. I do not turn case necks. I use the carbide expander ball to move neck wall irregularities to the outside of the case neck. I get a bushing that gives about 0.002" sizing. I have the gages and set up my die so I push the shoulder back only about 0.002". I use bushing dies to extend the life of my brass without annealing. If you value your brass, you will, too. |
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Well I called RCBS and they were helpful but the die was made the way it is for a reason. AeroE, you said you were not quite sure about the issue I was trying to describe with my die. I wish I was able to add a picture but I'm not too sharp with computer stuff. All standard dies are 7/8" outside diameter. Every other sizing die I own, and I'm guessing yours too, has the bottom 1/2" made to a smaller outside diameter. The threads on the outside of the die start above this reduced diameter area. This reduced diameter allows the die to fit in to a recess in my Dillon shell plates. My problem is the 338LM die is full 7/8" diameter all the way to the bottom and will not fit into the recessed area of the shell plate where all other dies do fit. I hope that explains it. Again, sorry this is a case of a picture being worth a thousand words.
Anyway, RCBS tech said the die was not made to a smaller diameter at the bottom because the bore in the die for the large 338LM case left too little wall thickness and they felt that farther reducing the outer diameter at the bottom of this die could cause it to crack. Fair enough and I believe most single stage shell holders would work fine. I think I will chuck the die in my friend's lathe and push my luck turning down the die so it fits in my Dillon shell plate. I don't want to weaken the shell plate by milling the recess larger because I think that needs to be stronger than the very bottom edge of my die, especially if I am not quite full length sizing and only going far enough to bump the shoulders back a bit. If I screw it up I will come up with a plan B. Most 338LM sizing dies use neck bushings. They seem to be far more common than they are for most other cartridges. That led me to try it. I do hope this helps with case life because the brass is quite expensive. I guess one shouldn't shoot 338LM to save money but I do not want to waste brass and shorten it's life if I can avoid it. I got an RCBS die set that included their competition seating die. I have several Reading micrometer dies and like them very much but the RCBS has a window in the side of the die body that lets you load bullets from the top. I think this will be helpful with the long brass and long bullets in the limited opening of my press. Maybe I didn't make the best choice in dies and I may be asking too much of my press but I think I can make this work. There is always plan B! Thanks again and a tin of Imperial sizing wax is on the way, MBanning |
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