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Posted: 9/2/2014 1:48:41 PM EDT
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I recently started loading some 200gr Lead bullets i had purchased a year ago or so. Immediately I start getting a bulge in the case that will not allow cartridge to drop into vase gauge or barrel. I have used this exact setup to loads 1000's in the past. I adjust crimp from none to heavy, bell from minimal to large, etc. the resized cases fit fine into case gauge. I cleaned the seat die (Lee) and eventually tried a hornady seat die I had with the same result. I measured the bullets and came up with a .454-.455 diameter. I called the manufacturer they sent me more no charge. This next shipment has the same problem. I contact and speak with a manager who pulls a lot of the same date and comes up they are oversized. He pulls a later lot, measures them, ships them, I git them today and same F-ing problem. These measure .453 but I am still getting a bulge that wont allow it to drop into case gauge. I don't want to name the manufacturer as they have been working very hard to fix the problem, i want to see if anyone has any ideas of something I'm doing wrong before I proceed.
Load is 200gr lead over 4.5 bullseye 1.2col You can see he bulge in the reflection 
Here's the original lot mic 
Here's the case gauge 
Thanks in advance |
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I had the same issue loading .45 when attempting to seat the bullet and crimp in one step, with both Lee and Hornady dies. The last few thousandths of seating depth is applied as the crimp is also being done, and I believe the case mouth is digging into the lead bullet and buckling outward as the bullet finishes seating into the case. Either try tweaking the crimp on your seater die very very precisely until it is just barely removing the case bell expansion and not rolling over, or as I did, buy a factory crimp die and seat and crimp in separate steps. |
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Quoted:
I had the same issue loading .45 when attempting to seat the bullet and crimp in one step, with both Lee and Hornady dies. The last few thousandths of seating depth is applied as the crimp is also being done, and I believe the case mouth is digging into the lead bullet and buckling outward as the bullet finishes seating into the case. Either try tweaking the crimp on your seater die very very precisely until it is just barely removing the case bell expansion and not rolling over, or as I did, buy a factory crimp die and seat and crimp in separate steps. If you are crimping and seating in the same operation, stop. At the very least, stop during the troubleshooting operations. Fully seat a few. Crimp those in a separate step (may require pulling the seating stem or other change to die setting). Do these fit the case gage? |
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oversized bullets aren't ever going to be your friend.... if you slug your barrel you'll get a feel how oversized they are for your weapon. have you tried the barrel to plunk them? 45acp bullets should be .452 for lead in general, though some guns have a tendency of having oversized bores.
could it be that you are shaving lead? are you crimping/seating in the same operation? that could lead to a problem. |
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Quoted: oversized bullets aren't ever going to be your friend.... if you slug your barrel you'll get a feel how oversized they are for your weapon. have you tried the barrel to plunk them? 45acp bullets should be .452 for lead in general, though some guns have a tendency of having oversized bores. I re-read the OP and I guess I missed the mention of oversize bullets, yikes! Yea, .453 is about the oversize MAX for .45 ACP, and even that is rare. The common sizing for lead is .452 Thinking about it now, the bullet profile looks a lot like a .45 colt bullet, and I believe some bullet manufactures sell up to .454 sized lead bullets for the older spec .45 colt guns that had a bigger bore diameter. Could it be possible they sent you such bullets made for .45 colt by mistake? My previous post on the crimp was because it looked like you had a rounded bulge just at the case mouth, which I've seen from case buckling due to over crimp or crimping into the lead while it's still seating, and oversized bullets would probably serve to even worsen such effects since once the case mouth encounters the crimping taper in the die, even for a "strait wall, just remove the case flair" type of crimp that you're looking for, you'd be digging the case mouth into the bullet because it is oversized and buckling the case. |
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Basic troubleshooting - Does the sized brass fit all the way into the case gage (before belling the case mouth)? Sized brass fits gauge and barrel no problem How much do you expand the mouth during belling (how many mils does the diameter increase)? I have adjusted the bell from zero (shaved lead) to .005 oversize |
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I re-read the OP and I guess I missed the mention of oversize bullets, yikes! Yea, .453 is about the oversize MAX for .45 ACP, and even that is rare. The common sizing for lead is .452 Thinking about it now, the bullet profile looks a lot like a .45 colt bullet, and I believe some bullet manufactures sell up to .454 sized lead bullets for the older spec .45 colt guns that had a bigger bore diameter. Could it be possible they sent you such bullets made for .45 colt by mistake? My previous post on the crimp was because it looked like you had a rounded bulge just at the case mouth, which I've seen from case buckling due to over crimp or crimping into the lead while it's still seating, and oversized bullets would probably serve to even worsen such effects since once the case mouth encounters the crimping taper in the die, even for a "strait wall, just remove the case flair" type of crimp that you're looking for, you'd be digging the case mouth into the bullet because it is oversized and buckling the case. Quoted:
Quoted:
oversized bullets aren't ever going to be your friend.... if you slug your barrel you'll get a feel how oversized they are for your weapon. have you tried the barrel to plunk them? 45acp bullets should be .452 for lead in general, though some guns have a tendency of having oversized bores. I re-read the OP and I guess I missed the mention of oversize bullets, yikes! Yea, .453 is about the oversize MAX for .45 ACP, and even that is rare. The common sizing for lead is .452 Thinking about it now, the bullet profile looks a lot like a .45 colt bullet, and I believe some bullet manufactures sell up to .454 sized lead bullets for the older spec .45 colt guns that had a bigger bore diameter. Could it be possible they sent you such bullets made for .45 colt by mistake? My previous post on the crimp was because it looked like you had a rounded bulge just at the case mouth, which I've seen from case buckling due to over crimp or crimping into the lead while it's still seating, and oversized bullets would probably serve to even worsen such effects since once the case mouth encounters the crimping taper in the die, even for a "strait wall, just remove the case flair" type of crimp that you're looking for, you'd be digging the case mouth into the bullet because it is oversized and buckling the case. That's what I wondered when I saw the diameter. It almost looks like a roll crimp in the first picture, as well. |
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I re-read the OP and I guess I missed the mention of oversize bullets, yikes! Yea, .453 is about the oversize MAX for .45 ACP, and even that is rare. The common sizing for lead is .452 These say .452 on the box the manager said they use a sizing die made to .453 Thinking about it now, the bullet profile looks a lot like a .45 colt bullet, and I believe some bullet manufactures sell up to .454 sized lead bullets for the older spec .45 colt guns that had a bigger bore diameter. Could it be possible they sent you such bullets made for .45 colt by mistake? I made it very clear and we discussed it being for 45acp My previous post on the crimp was because it looked like you had a rounded bulge just at the case mouth, which I've seen from case buckling due to over crimp or crimping into the lead while it's still seating, and oversized bullets would probably serve to even worsen such effects since once the case mouth encounters the crimping taper in the die, even for a "strait wall, just remove the case flair" type of crimp that you're looking for, you'd be digging the case mouth into the bullet because it is oversized and buckling the case. I have backed the seat die all the way out to zero crimp, i will try that with the hornady dies tonight Quoted:
Quoted:
oversized bullets aren't ever going to be your friend.... if you slug your barrel you'll get a feel how oversized they are for your weapon. have you tried the barrel to plunk them? 45acp bullets should be .452 for lead in general, though some guns have a tendency of having oversized bores. I re-read the OP and I guess I missed the mention of oversize bullets, yikes! Yea, .453 is about the oversize MAX for .45 ACP, and even that is rare. The common sizing for lead is .452 These say .452 on the box the manager said they use a sizing die made to .453 Thinking about it now, the bullet profile looks a lot like a .45 colt bullet, and I believe some bullet manufactures sell up to .454 sized lead bullets for the older spec .45 colt guns that had a bigger bore diameter. Could it be possible they sent you such bullets made for .45 colt by mistake? I made it very clear and we discussed it being for 45acp My previous post on the crimp was because it looked like you had a rounded bulge just at the case mouth, which I've seen from case buckling due to over crimp or crimping into the lead while it's still seating, and oversized bullets would probably serve to even worsen such effects since once the case mouth encounters the crimping taper in the die, even for a "strait wall, just remove the case flair" type of crimp that you're looking for, you'd be digging the case mouth into the bullet because it is oversized and buckling the case. I have backed the seat die all the way out to zero crimp, i will try that with the hornady dies tonight |
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I have backed the seat die all the way out to zero crimp, i will try that with the hornady dies tonight If you're expanding the mouth to seat the bullet, you'll need to remove the flare or else it will still not fit the gage. Since it sounds like you have 2 seating dies, take one and remove the seating plug and basically use it as a crimp only die and crimp in a second step after seating and see if that helps as well. |
OP. It seems you have found your problem. Your chamber may be on the tight side and won't allow you to use the .453's. Your fix is simple too. Buy a Lee bullet sizer die. A .452" would probably be just fine but they probably make a .451" also. They are around $20. By the sounds of it you may need it again at some time. 
BTW: I would not get the .451" unless you really need it. Probably would not hurt to slug the barrel too. I have been very lucky I guess because I cast my own and use them all "as cast" which means they run a little big. Contrary to some beliefs there are many self casters that belong to the "BIGGER IS BETTER CLUB" Bigger boolits simply fill the bore better but if they won't chamber its a moot point. |
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OP. It seems you have found your problem. Your chamber may be on the tight side and won't allow you to use the .453's. Your fix is simple too. Buy a Lee bullet sizer die. A .452" would probably be just fine but they probably make a .451" also. They are around $20. By the sounds of it you may need it again at some time.
BTW: I would not get the .451" unless you really need it. Probably would not hurt to slug the barrel too. I have been very lucky I guess because I cast my own and use them all "as cast" which means they run a little big. Contrary to some beliefs there are many self casters that belong to the "BIGGER IS BETTER CLUB" Bigger boolits simply fill the bore better but if they won't chamber its a moot point. Doesn't the hardness of the bullet become a factor here? (red) |
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At this point, your best bet may be to run the loaded rounds through a Lee Factory Crimp die (set it to zero crimp)
That die will swage the entire cartridge (bullet included) back down to SAAMI spec. A lot of folks don't like the FCD, but it works. Other than that, you could use them in a sloppy .45 colt. The .45 Colt should be .451/.452 the same as the .45 acp, but a lot of them have sloppy throats such that .454 shoot better. |
| Normally the .45 ACP dies and pistol will handle .452 lead. Not sure about .453 or .454. Regardless, best results are usually if you seat and crimp in separate steps, that is have a 4th crimp die or crimp as the last step. Best results in .45 ACP for semi auto pistol is a good taper crimp die. As stated, the Lee Factory Crimp die is designed for and may get rid of the bulge in this case. Other option is to go back to drawing board on bullets with a .451 style designed specifically for .45 ACP. |
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Quoted:
At this point, your best bet may be to run the loaded rounds through a Lee Factory Crimp die (set it to zero crimp) That die will swage the entire cartridge (bullet included) back down to SAAMI spec. A lot of folks don't like the FCD, but it works. Other than that, you could use them in a sloppy .45 colt. The .45 Colt should be .451/.452 the same as the .45 acp, but a lot of them have sloppy throats such that .454 shoot better. that may work, but be sure to check that you still have sufficient neck tension as you are swaging the soft lead, but the brass has some "spring back". |
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Doesn't the hardness of the bullet become a factor here? (red) Quoted:
Quoted:
OP. It seems you have found your problem. Your chamber may be on the tight side and won't allow you to use the .453's. Your fix is simple too. Buy a Lee bullet sizer die. A .452" would probably be just fine but they probably make a .451" also. They are around $20. By the sounds of it you may need it again at some time.
BTW: I would not get the .451" unless you really need it. Probably would not hurt to slug the barrel too. I have been very lucky I guess because I cast my own and use them all "as cast" which means they run a little big. Contrary to some beliefs there are many self casters that belong to the "BIGGER IS BETTER CLUB" Bigger boolits simply fill the bore better but if they won't chamber its a moot point. Doesn't the hardness of the bullet become a factor here? (red) That's the funny thing about casting and loading your own. Everything is a factor. Some times all goes well, other times you need to "read" the problem and try to find what works. I'm not sure what "factor" you are thinking of. Softer bullets obturate easier but may not be hard enough to withstand the pressure. Its a really fun hobby, and when you find something that works well you tend to stick with it. |
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RNFPs were the first bullet type I tried when I got into .45ACP cast lead reloading. It was a terrible idea. They are designed for revolver use with a roll crimp groove, and have a very abrupt ogive. I had to seat way too deep to get them to chamber in my 1911, and ran into all sorts of feeding and other problems.
I discarded the rest of the box and switched to 200gr LSWC and all my problems went away. It's been mentioned, but I also had to get away from seat/crimp with the same (Lee) die. No matter how much bell I put on the case, it still shaved the bullet with the simultaneous seat/crimp. |
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Good, bad, or indifferent it sounds like the manufacturer is trying very hard to make it right for you.
I have loaded a few thousand of that size and profile with no issue (shot in various 1911s) so the profile should not be an issue. Worst case you might find a local caster who would trade you in spec bullets for yours. |
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