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Posted: 5/28/2014 9:02:34 AM EDT
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I finally found some time to load up some of my first 223 rounds.
Here is how I have my setup on my 650 Prep Tool Head: 1. Size/decap die 4. Rt1200 (just trim) Load Tool Head: 1. Decap to clear any debris 2. powder 4. Seat 5. crimp (backed off no crimp, but still in the slot) Here are my first loads Trimmed everything to 1.750" FC brass (i know its junk but its what I have the most of right now) CCI #400 Hornady 50gr V-Max 24gr, 24.1, & 24.3 of H-335 2.235" OAL I was going to load up a few different batches but I was an idiot and got my expander ball stuck in a neck and couldnt get it out which ended my loading session. I have solely loaded 9mm prior to this so these are my first rifle rounds I know that these loads are going to be on the light end, from what I have gathered from load data. I pulled my firing pin and extractor and check a few cases prior to see if I had any sizing issues, which i did not. am I missing anything? I checked every round in these batches in my case guage and all came back passing. Powder is spot on, all lengths are good, primers are all seated properly any thoughts? I am also open to any opinions on improving my loading sequence as I know there are lots of different ways out there as far as the RT1200 setup goes thanks! //Austin |
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.223 setup on xl650
My set-up is as follows. . . Brass prep tool head Station 1 - Dillon .223 Carbide Sizing/Decapping Die size 90% Station 2 - Empty naked to the wind Station 3 - Dillon 1200b Trimmer with custom insert pin and attach vacuum. Set to size the final 10% Station 4 - Empty naked to the wind Station 5 - Lyman M Die -set to knock of any inside burr and put a extreme very slight flare in less than .002 Hornady pocket ream primer pockets if necessary. Wet tumble Loading tool head Station 1 - Lee Universal Decapping Die to clear flash hole of any debri. Station 2 - Seat primer, drop powder Station 3 - Dillon Powder Check Station 4 - Redding Competition Pro Seating Die Station 4 - Lee Factory Crimp Die to take out the slight flare from the M die without crimping. .223/5.56 50gr Zmax Hornady H335 24.1gr Trim 1.750 OAL 2.246 Light crimp CCI 450 SRM 2727AVG FPS AR15 16 inch 1/9 twist barrel This load is the best for me. .223/5.56 50gr Zmax Hornady H335 25gr Trim 1.750 OAL 2.246 Light crimp CCI 450 SRM 2911AVG FPS AR15 16 inch 1/9 twist barrel |
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Hopefully your not shooting these in a AR, they are too long if you are. They may also be long for a 50 gr bullet. Yes, they will be shot from my 10.5" AR. I have had a very hard time finding solid load data for this bullet with H335.. I found the majority of people running this OAL so that is where i set it. I see some are setting at 2.200" and then i am seeing some setting at 2.260" which is even longer than what I am running. my manual does not have data for this particular bullet. THe Hogdon webpage has data for a 50gr SPR SP showing 2.210" PLease dont bash on me, I am trying to get this correct and keep my hobby going! This is my first go at rifle rounds |
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Your OAL is fine. 2.260 is the longest length that will feed in a AR mag. Used for the longer 69/75/77 gr bullets. I would be around 2.20, but it's never a bad idea fo follow the load data. Rule of thumb, seat bullet 1 bullet diameter into the case. So at least .224 of bullet in case neck. Just one question, did you check to be sure a sized case will chamber and eject normally? You don't want to find out at the range that your rounds won't chamber. |
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.223 setup on xl650 My set-up is as follows. . . Brass prep tool head Station 1 - Dillon .223 Carbide Sizing/Decapping Die size 90% Station 2 - Empty naked to the wind Station 3 - Dillon 1200b Trimmer with custom insert pin and attach vacuum. Set to size the final 10% Station 4 - Empty naked to the wind Station 5 - Lyman M Die -set to knock of any inside burr and put a extreme very slight flare in less than .002 Hornady pocket ream primer pockets if necessary. Wet tumble Loading tool head Station 1 - Lee Universal Decapping Die to clear flash hole of any debri. Station 2 - Seat primer, drop powder Station 3 - Dillon Powder Check Station 4 - Redding Competition Pro Seating Die Station 4 - Lee Factory Crimp Die to take out the slight flare from the M die without crimping. .223/5.56 50gr Zmax Hornady H335 24.1gr Trim 1.750 OAL 2.246 Light crimp CCI 450 SRM 2727AVG FPS AR15 16 inch 1/9 twist barrel This load is the best for me. .223/5.56 50gr Zmax Hornady H335 25gr Trim 1.750 OAL 2.246 Light crimp CCI 450 SRM 2911AVG FPS AR15 16 inch 1/9 twist barrel Thanks for these load info! Do you still use an expander ball while using the M die? |
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Yes, they will be shot from my 10.5" AR. I have had a very hard time finding solid load data for this bullet with H335.. I found the majority of people running this OAL so that is where i set it. I see some are setting at 2.200" and then i am seeing some setting at 2.260" which is even longer than what I am running. my manual does not have data for this particular bullet. THe Hogdon webpage has data for a 50gr SPR SP showing 2.210" PLease dont bash on me, I am trying to get this correct and keep my hobby going! This is my first go at rifle rounds Quoted:
Quoted:
Hopefully your not shooting these in a AR, they are too long if you are. They may also be long for a 50 gr bullet. Yes, they will be shot from my 10.5" AR. I have had a very hard time finding solid load data for this bullet with H335.. I found the majority of people running this OAL so that is where i set it. I see some are setting at 2.200" and then i am seeing some setting at 2.260" which is even longer than what I am running. my manual does not have data for this particular bullet. THe Hogdon webpage has data for a 50gr SPR SP showing 2.210" PLease dont bash on me, I am trying to get this correct and keep my hobby going! This is my first go at rifle rounds Ahhh fuck sorry I was posting and yakking on the phone and read the length wrong. 2.26 is the longest I have been able to get away with. |
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Your OAL is fine. 2.260 is the longest length that will feed in a AR mag. Used for the longer 69/75/77 gr bullets. I would be around 2.20, but it's never a bad idea fo follow the load data. Rule of thumb, seat bullet 1 bullet diameter into the case. So at least .224 of bullet in case neck. Just one question, did you check to be sure a sized case will chamber and eject normally? You don't want to find out at the range that your rounds won't chamber. Good to hear!! I did check to make sure a sized case will chamber and eject normally. THat was one of the things i spent the most time dialing in properly. At first I could chamber but was having a very tough time ejecting by hand, I realized that I was not completely in spec with my case guage. My cases now are all consistently gauging properly and they chamber and eject like butter, just like my factory PMC rounds do I tested them by chambering with no firing pin or ejector and pushing the bcg in by hand and it locked without much resistance. then i chambered in with everything installed with a normal chamber method and everything was a go. I only did 1 round this way as I have read quite a bit about CCI#400's and slam fire issues and did not want to have that happen in my house. I am not sure if that is a myth or not but rather play it safe I think these should be good to go then and I will make sure to get some chrono data so i can accurately work up a load Thanks Dryflash |
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Ahhh fuck sorry I was posting and yakking on the phone and read the length wrong. 2.26 is the longest I have been able to get away with. Quoted:
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Quoted:
Hopefully your not shooting these in a AR, they are too long if you are. They may also be long for a 50 gr bullet. Yes, they will be shot from my 10.5" AR. I have had a very hard time finding solid load data for this bullet with H335.. I found the majority of people running this OAL so that is where i set it. I see some are setting at 2.200" and then i am seeing some setting at 2.260" which is even longer than what I am running. my manual does not have data for this particular bullet. THe Hogdon webpage has data for a 50gr SPR SP showing 2.210" PLease dont bash on me, I am trying to get this correct and keep my hobby going! This is my first go at rifle rounds Ahhh fuck sorry I was posting and yakking on the phone and read the length wrong. 2.26 is the longest I have been able to get away with. haha no worries! I figured that might of been the case :) |
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Quoted: Good to hear!! I did check to make sure a sized case will chamber and eject normally. THat was one of the things i spent the most time dialing in properly. At first I could chamber but was having a very tough time ejecting by hand, I realized that I was not completely in spec with my case guage. My cases now are all consistently gauging properly and they chamber and eject like butter, just like my factory PMC rounds do I tested them by chambering with no firing pin or ejector and pushing the bcg in by hand and it locked without much resistance. then i chambered in with everything installed with a normal chamber method and everything was a go. I only did 1 round this way as I have read quite a bit about CCI#400's and slam fire issues and did not want to have that happen in my house. I am not sure if that is a myth or not but rather play it safe I think these should be good to go then and I will make sure to get some chrono data so i can accurately work up a load Thanks Dryflash Quoted: Quoted: Your OAL is fine. <snip> Good to hear!! I did check to make sure a sized case will chamber and eject normally. THat was one of the things i spent the most time dialing in properly. At first I could chamber but was having a very tough time ejecting by hand, I realized that I was not completely in spec with my case guage. My cases now are all consistently gauging properly and they chamber and eject like butter, just like my factory PMC rounds do I tested them by chambering with no firing pin or ejector and pushing the bcg in by hand and it locked without much resistance. then i chambered in with everything installed with a normal chamber method and everything was a go. I only did 1 round this way as I have read quite a bit about CCI#400's and slam fire issues and did not want to have that happen in my house. I am not sure if that is a myth or not but rather play it safe I think these should be good to go then and I will make sure to get some chrono data so i can accurately work up a load Thanks Dryflash Good to hear you took the time to set your sizing die correctly.  I have never had any issues with CCI 400's in 223. But I never chase 5.56 loads with them and check every case to ensure all primers are seated below flush. |
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Thanks for these load info! Do you still use an expander ball while using the M die? Quoted:
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.223 setup on xl650 My set-up is as follows. . . Brass prep tool head Station 1 - Dillon .223 Carbide Sizing/Decapping Die size 90% Station 2 - Empty naked to the wind Station 3 - Dillon 1200b Trimmer with custom insert pin and attach vacuum. Set to size the final 10% Station 4 - Empty naked to the wind Station 5 - Lyman M Die -set to knock of any inside burr and put a extreme very slight flare in less than .002 Hornady pocket ream primer pockets if necessary. Wet tumble Loading tool head Station 1 - Lee Universal Decapping Die to clear flash hole of any debri. Station 2 - Seat primer, drop powder Station 3 - Dillon Powder Check Station 4 - Redding Competition Pro Seating Die Station 4 - Lee Factory Crimp Die to take out the slight flare from the M die without crimping. .223/5.56 50gr Zmax Hornady H335 24.1gr Trim 1.750 OAL 2.246 Light crimp CCI 450 SRM 2727AVG FPS AR15 16 inch 1/9 twist barrel This load is the best for me. .223/5.56 50gr Zmax Hornady H335 25gr Trim 1.750 OAL 2.246 Light crimp CCI 450 SRM 2911AVG FPS AR15 16 inch 1/9 twist barrel Thanks for these load info! Do you still use an expander ball while using the M die? Yes to get out any dents in the necks. The Dillion trim die, when set correctly, tends to over size the necks so the M die does two things. One, knocks off any burrs left on the inside of the necks Two, very slightly open the top of the neck without expanding the whole neck to allow better seating especially with flat based bullets. |
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I didn't notice in any of the responses.... but make sure none of the FC brass has crimped primers.
Seems to be kind of hit and miss on the various Federal brand .223 / 5.56 ammo... If you do find some crimped then make sure to remove the milspec crimp prior to re-priming. BTW, I've used Nosler's load data for their 50 grain Ballistic Tip which is close to being interchangeable...Just use it as a loosely useable guide for starting charge weights and slowly work up as needed ( watch for pressure signs , of course ) until you get good accuracy. http://www.nosler.com/223-remington Speed is one thing with these bullets, accuracy is much more satisfying though. |
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I didn't notice in any of the responses.... but make sure none of the FC brass has crimped primers. Seems to be kind of hit and miss on the various Federal brand .223 / 5.56 ammo... If you do find some crimped then make sure to remove the milspec crimp prior to re-priming. BTW, I've used Nosler's load data for their 50 grain Ballistic Tip which is close to being interchangeable...Just use it as a loosely useable guide for starting charge weights and slowly work up as needed ( watch for pressure signs , of course ) until you get good accuracy. http://www.nosler.com/223-remington Speed is one thing with these bullets, accuracy is much more satisfying though. Ok, thank you, i will look into that data! Oh yeah lol i came across a few that were crimped when trying to prime. I had previously checked a few in the batch but now I have noticed that I have a handful with crimps in them so they will be decrimped before i load any more. I was under the impression that all FC wasnt crimped but now I see otherwise. At first i thought something was up with my primer punch and wondering why it was putting it in sideways |
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The hornady manual lists COL for the 50 gr vmax as 2.240" Minimum charge for hp335 is 21.8gr @ 2900fps and max is 25.7gr at 3300fps skipped over this! I wish you could multi-qoute on this board, unless i am missing something? I just picked up a Hornady manual as all my bullets are Hornady So the loads listed online must be from people working them up.. hmmm. I am within the limits but not sure how i feel about working down if I dont like what I see from shooting these |
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I have been out of town for over a week so did not get a chance to fire any yet. Planning on going 3 days this week as I get in for free for Fathers Day! Woooohoo!
I do have a quick question as far as lands go.. I noticed that on the round I chambered and ejected (everything went smooth), that there are triangle markings in the bullet all the way around and all the same shape. Is this land markings or jsut markings from extracting? |
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Lucky you.
I just bought a RCBS setup, Got it all mounted on my workspace. Headed out to some of the stores, carry supplies, NO ONE has H335 powder. Searched online. No one has it there. Some places will let you backorder, but then they say, "once your order processes, expect 4 to 6 weeks before it SHIPS" (they can KMA on that one). The other option, is gunbroker and pay over $300 for 8 lbs, more than 2x the price. So, right now.... I have about $350 worth of paperweight on my workbench. I would have been better off saving that money and just continuing to buy ammo. If its going to be this, every time... not worth the hassle, nor the cost. At this point/price, I won't even have a 50% savings and that's not close to worth it. |
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Lucky you. I just bought a RCBS setup, Got it all mounted on my workspace. Headed out to some of the stores, carry supplies, NO ONE has H335 powder. Searched online. No one has it there. Some places will let you backorder, but then they say, "once your order processes, expect 4 to 6 weeks before it SHIPS" (they can KMA on that one). The other option, is gunbroker and pay over $300 for 8 lbs, more than 2x the price. So, right now.... I have about $350 worth of paperweight on my workbench. I would have been better off saving that money and just continuing to buy ammo. If its going to be this, every time... not worth the hassle, nor the cost. At this point/price, I won't even have a 50% savings and that's not close to worth it. You have to constantly check local stores and check online and jump the second you see it. If you hesistate at all online it will be bought out. I got lucky during the start of the shortage and got in a big powder order with various kinds |
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Lucky you. I just bought a RCBS setup, Got it all mounted on my workspace. Headed out to some of the stores, carry supplies, NO ONE has H335 powder. Searched online. No one has it there. Some places will let you backorder, but then they say, "once your order processes, expect 4 to 6 weeks before it SHIPS" (they can KMA on that one). The other option, is gunbroker and pay over $300 for 8 lbs, more than 2x the price. So, right now.... I have about $350 worth of paperweight on my workbench. I would have been better off saving that money and just continuing to buy ammo. If its going to be this, every time... not worth the hassle, nor the cost. At this point/price, I won't even have a 50% savings and that's not close to worth it. I just ordered some h335 powder. Check jmreloadingsupply.com |
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You must have got the last of it. I had to settle for w748, buying 1lb containers, all he had left. He's local to me, to. Quoted:
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just ordered some h335 powder. Check jmreloadingsupply.com You must have got the last of it. I had to settle for w748, buying 1lb containers, all he had left. He's local to me, to. sign up for the email notifications on there and anywhere else that has them. The second you get a notice you have to jump on it |
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Well, even though some reloaders here use the Imperial wax for sizing lube, I have a better time with RCBS Case Lube-2. It is a little less viscous and seems to pick up less debris. I often start with 1X LC 5.56 range pickups which are only given a cursory cleaning sufficient for sizing, but with some residual soot still inside the necks.
The highly viscous Imperial wax seems to pick up and build up a slurry of soot and wax over time and increase the retraction force required to get the expander out back through the neck. Good 5.56 cases have fairly soft and weak shoulders and can deform under high expander retraction force. The only time I really locked up a sizer like you describe was when I was down-sizing some .308 to 7mm-08. I discovered it was better to remove the expander stem until the neck was reamed after downsizing. 
Anyway, it is a good idea to take the expander stem out from time to time and clean it off with some acetone or alcohol followed by reapplication of some CLP or something similar. Sometimes I polish the expander ball with some Flitz metal polish before reassembly. By the way, since you are new, I want to pass on this tip. When you are installing the decapper / expander stem in the die, use a decapped case pushed up in the die body to center the decapping pin in the flash hole before tightening the lock nut(s) between the stem and die body. |
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Quoted: Well, even though some reloaders here use the Imperial wax for sizing lube, I have a better time with RCBS Case Lube-2. It is a little less viscous and seems to pick up less debris. I often start with 1X LC 5.56 range pickups which are only given a cursory cleaning sufficient for sizing, but with some residual soot still inside the necks. The highly viscous Imperial wax seems to pick up and build up a slurry of soot and wax over time and increase the retraction force required to get the expander out back through the neck. Good 5.56 cases have fairly soft and weak shoulders and can deform under high expander retraction force. The only time I really locked up a sizer like you describe was when I was down-sizing some .308 to 7mm-08. I discovered it was better to remove the expander stem until the neck was reamed after downsizing. Anyway, it is a good idea to take the expander stem out from time to time and clean it off with some acetone or alcohol followed by reapplication of some CLP or something similar. Sometimes I polish the expander ball with some Flitz metal polish before reassembly. By the way, since you are new, I want to pass on this tip. When you are installing the decapper / expander stem in the die, use a decapped case pushed up in the die body to center the decapping pin in the flash hole before tightening the lock nut(s) between the stem and die body. This is very good advice.
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Got the Lee Universal Deprimer. Not sure how many rounds, I'm guessing around 400. The Lee handled all that Lake City military brass, like a champ. Though, my thoughts on why this was dumped on civilian markets, was the crimps on the primers. Very inconsistent.
Forgot to buy some spray case lube, ran to store and just happened to ask about powder. They open up the safe, 10lbs of H335. Said I would take two... jerks only sell me one. I highly recommend JM Reloading Supply. Especially if you're in the Bakersfield area (or close enough) and you can pick up. Wave those stupid UPS hazmat fees. Doesn't hurt, he's a nice guy, small business... trying to live the dream (he wants to open a shop). Foolishly overpaid (from the LGS) for a box of Hornady VMAX (only 100), my Xtreme will be here Wednesday. They were actually the cheapest they had on hand and I think I'll be itching to get some rounds made before Wednesday. |
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This is very good advice. Quoted:
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Well, even though some reloaders here use the Imperial wax for sizing lube, I have a better time with RCBS Case Lube-2. It is a little less viscous and seems to pick up less debris. I often start with 1X LC 5.56 range pickups which are only given a cursory cleaning sufficient for sizing, but with some residual soot still inside the necks. The highly viscous Imperial wax seems to pick up and build up a slurry of soot and wax over time and increase the retraction force required to get the expander out back through the neck. Good 5.56 cases have fairly soft and weak shoulders and can deform under high expander retraction force. The only time I really locked up a sizer like you describe was when I was down-sizing some .308 to 7mm-08. I discovered it was better to remove the expander stem until the neck was reamed after downsizing.
Anyway, it is a good idea to take the expander stem out from time to time and clean it off with some acetone or alcohol followed by reapplication of some CLP or something similar. Sometimes I polish the expander ball with some Flitz metal polish before reassembly. By the way, since you are new, I want to pass on this tip. When you are installing the decapper / expander stem in the die, use a decapped case pushed up in the die body to center the decapping pin in the flash hole before tightening the lock nut(s) between the stem and die body. This is very good advice. thanks for the tip!! I will remember that Sadly, i did not get a chance to hit the range. My grandpa had a heart attack Friday and since he was at rod show in LA I hit the road asap to get to the hospital for surgery. He is all good now but i did not make it back to Phoenix until late last night so my range time will be this week instead! |
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I hope your GF has a speedy recovery. Thank you! He is doing much better now. Still in quite a bit of discomfort and pain but much better. Now we are just trying to keep his mind alive. He has lately been kind of moopy and thinks he's useless. He was very active and always out working on his truck I finally have an update!! My gosh, it took forever to spring a few hours out to the range I shot 24.0 and 24.3 grains. The 24.3 grouped much better but to be honest I can't tell if that was shooter error or not. My magpul buis are not zero'd 100% and I didn't want to take the time to get them on center so I just kept them where they were at and tried to keep a good grouping. Distance was at 75yards and on a bag Now, I didn't have the chance to use my chrono this time around. So I can't look at that data to check the loads What should I be looking to do next as far as working the load up? When should I stop? This gun is never shot from a bench, other than today. So I'm not look for extreme precision. Just a load that shoots consistent and flat 24.0  [/URL]
24.3  [/URL]
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