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Posted: 1/9/2014 12:17:44 PM EDT
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Just started working on loading for this round.. Ok...initial pics... right side is various .223 brass while two brass cases on left is unsized and sized .222. Steel cases on left show .224 projo fits easily into 5.45 fired cases neck. This shows there is enough space in the chamber (of MY rifles) to allow .224 bullets to chamber.  |
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As you can see by the wrinkling you're getting when forming 5.45 from .223 brass, you need to anneal the brass before reforming it, as you're trying to compress the already thick case wall of the .223 to form a neck and shoulder. This is why your .222 case formed into 5.45 without the wrinkling, as you're just bumping the shoulder and neck down slightly, instead of fully beyond where they are formed on the original case.
Also while .224" bullets work in a fired case, the necks of your formed cases will be much smaller, and you will have much greater neck tension than with .221" bullets, raising your chamber pressure, though they can be used if you don't push for maximum powder loads. Also, without the cases being annealed, you might have trouble getting the .224" bullets to seat easily. This can all be ignored by getting one of the Lee bullet sizing dies for your press, which will squeeze your .224" bullets down to .221", to eliminate any issue from this. The die is about $20, and I use it to resize 63gr tracer bullets which are long enough to seat fully in the 5.45 case, and give me the long 5.45 style nose that feeds reliably (they also work great with the 1:8 twist of the 5.45). Another note, since the extractor grove is smaller on the .223 and .222 cases, if you plan to use resized brass in any amount it is easier to buy a replacement extractor and have it ground to match the extractor grove of the brass cases, so it works reliably (the normal 5.45 extractor will not fully engage the grove, and can bend or rip the rims off the cases, kinda defeating the point of having reloadable brass). Hope this helps, and welcome to the fun world of 5.45. |
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Quoted: As you can see by the wrinkling you're getting when forming 5.45 from .223 brass, you need to anneal the brass before reforming it, as you're trying to compress the already thick case wall of the .223 to form a neck and shoulder. This is why your .222 case formed into 5.45 without the wrinkling, as you're just bumping the shoulder and neck down slightly, instead of fully beyond where they are formed on the original case. Also while .224" bullets work in a fired case, the necks of your formed cases will be much smaller, and you will have much greater neck tension than with .221" bullets, raising your chamber pressure, though they can be used if you don't push for maximum powder loads. Also, without the cases being annealed, you might have trouble getting the .224" bullets to seat easily. This can all be ignored by getting one of the Lee bullet sizing dies for your press, which will squeeze your .224" bullets down to .221", to eliminate any issue from this. The die is about $20, and I use it to resize 63gr tracer bullets which are long enough to seat fully in the 5.45 case, and give me the long 5.45 style nose that feeds reliably (they also work great with the 1:8 twist of the 5.45). Another note, since the extractor grove is smaller on the .223 and .222 cases, if you plan to use resized brass in any amount it is easier to buy a replacement extractor and have it ground to match the extractor grove of the brass cases, so it works reliably (the normal 5.45 extractor will not fully engage the grove, and can bend or rip the rims off the cases, kinda defeating the point of having reloadable brass). Hope this helps, and welcome to the fun world of 5.45. |
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Good Q. - are these available as a custom order from Lee? If not Lee, who can make these dies? Quoted:
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Interesting project. I keep waiting to see some dies for sale so I can play around with some .223 brass and bullets in my 5.45 AR upper and AK74s Good Q. - are these available as a custom order from Lee? If not Lee, who can make these dies? Custom from Lee. Also available through CH4D, but you'll like Lee's price much better than CH4D. |
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we just had a three page thread on this WTF
you make 5,45 brass from 222 or 223 brass, annealed to run through custom Lee dies, you buy 5.45 projectiles from Hornady or get a custom lee resizer to convert 223 projectiles I can't believe another thread when we just discussed this in full , do a search its all there |
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Quoted: we just had a three page thread on this WTF you make 5,45 brass from 222 or 223 brass, annealed to run through custom Lee dies, you buy 5.45 projectiles from Hornady or get a custom lee resizer to convert 223 projectiles I can't believe another thread when we just discussed this in full , do a search its all there Lighten up, you are in a technical forum. |
| The Soviet subsonic 5.45x39 bullet weighs 80 grains and has an oversize diameter for better gas sealing. It is only being pushed to less than 1000 fps though. It's largest diameter is 5.62 mm but it is only 5.50 mm in the middle of the bullet. It is 24.20 mm long. Other sources refer the subsonic bullet as having a diameter of 5.6 mm. |
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The Soviet subsonic 5.45x39 bullet weighs 80 grains and has an oversize diameter for better gas sealing. It is only being pushed to less than 1000 fps though. It's largest diameter is 5.62 mm but it is only 5.50 mm in the middle of the bullet. It is 24.20 mm long. Other sources refer the subsonic bullet as having a diameter of 5.6 mm. Interesting. I know they had them in 7.62x39, but wasn't aware they made a subsonic round for the 5.45. Any links to your source(s)? |
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Quoted:
Interesting. I know they had them in 7.62x39, but wasn't aware they made a subsonic round for the 5.45. Any links to your source(s)? Quoted:
Quoted:
The Soviet subsonic 5.45x39 bullet weighs 80 grains and has an oversize diameter for better gas sealing. It is only being pushed to less than 1000 fps though. It's largest diameter is 5.62 mm but it is only 5.50 mm in the middle of the bullet. It is 24.20 mm long. Other sources refer the subsonic bullet as having a diameter of 5.6 mm. Interesting. I know they had them in 7.62x39, but wasn't aware they made a subsonic round for the 5.45. Any links to your source(s)? The specified diameter is 5.6mm behind the step transition of the subsonic 5.45 cartridge 7u1. It uses a 5.1-5.2gram (78-80grain) bullet at 300m/s, and is designed to be fired only from an AKS-74U with the PBS-4 suppressor. The bullet is cored with lead instead of steel, and uses a thinner bullet jacket than normal 5.45 cartridges in order to gain the additional weight, and produce tumble upon impact. The change in materials also results in the bullet being shorter than the normal 7n6 by just over 1mm. The cartridge is considered accurate and effective for a maximum of 200m. A picture of the cartridge with its distinctive black-green nose paint and the visible step: 
And the bullet, again with the step seen halfway between the neck seal and tip color: 
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Quoted: The specified diameter is 5.6mm behind the step transition of the subsonic 5.45 cartridge 7u1. It uses a 5.1-5.2gram (78-80grain) bullet at 300m/s, and is designed to be fired only from an AKS-74U with the PBS-4 suppressor. The bullet is cored with lead instead of steel, and uses a thinner bullet jacket than normal 5.45 cartridges in order to gain the additional weight, and produce tumble upon impact. The change in materials also results in the bullet being shorter than the normal 7n6 by just over 1mm. The cartridge is considered accurate and effective for a maximum of 200m. A picture of the cartridge with its distinctive black-green nose paint and the visible step: http://gunsru.ru/images/patroni/5_45x39_US.jpg And the bullet, again with the step seen halfway between the neck seal and tip color: http://gunsru.ru/images/patroni/5_45x39_US_2.jpg Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Soviet subsonic 5.45x39 bullet weighs 80 grains and has an oversize diameter for better gas sealing. It is only being pushed to less than 1000 fps though. It's largest diameter is 5.62 mm but it is only 5.50 mm in the middle of the bullet. It is 24.20 mm long. Other sources refer the subsonic bullet as having a diameter of 5.6 mm. Interesting. I know they had them in 7.62x39, but wasn't aware they made a subsonic round for the 5.45. Any links to your source(s)? The specified diameter is 5.6mm behind the step transition of the subsonic 5.45 cartridge 7u1. It uses a 5.1-5.2gram (78-80grain) bullet at 300m/s, and is designed to be fired only from an AKS-74U with the PBS-4 suppressor. The bullet is cored with lead instead of steel, and uses a thinner bullet jacket than normal 5.45 cartridges in order to gain the additional weight, and produce tumble upon impact. The change in materials also results in the bullet being shorter than the normal 7n6 by just over 1mm. The cartridge is considered accurate and effective for a maximum of 200m. A picture of the cartridge with its distinctive black-green nose paint and the visible step: http://gunsru.ru/images/patroni/5_45x39_US.jpg And the bullet, again with the step seen halfway between the neck seal and tip color: http://gunsru.ru/images/patroni/5_45x39_US_2.jpg |
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The 5.45x39 dies are available on the RCBS website for $143 and change.
https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=1406 |
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Quoted:
The specified diameter is 5.6mm behind the step transition of the subsonic 5.45 cartridge 7u1. It uses a 5.1-5.2gram (78-80grain) bullet at 300m/s, and is designed to be fired only from an AKS-74U with the PBS-4 suppressor. The bullet is cored with lead instead of steel, and uses a thinner bullet jacket than normal 5.45 cartridges in order to gain the additional weight, and produce tumble upon impact. The change in materials also results in the bullet being shorter than the normal 7n6 by just over 1mm. The cartridge is considered accurate and effective for a maximum of 200m. A picture of the cartridge with its distinctive black-green nose paint and the visible step: http://gunsru.ru/images/patroni/5_45x39_US.jpg And the bullet, again with the step seen halfway between the neck seal and tip color: http://gunsru.ru/images/patroni/5_45x39_US_2.jpg Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Soviet subsonic 5.45x39 bullet weighs 80 grains and has an oversize diameter for better gas sealing. It is only being pushed to less than 1000 fps though. It's largest diameter is 5.62 mm but it is only 5.50 mm in the middle of the bullet. It is 24.20 mm long. Other sources refer the subsonic bullet as having a diameter of 5.6 mm. Interesting. I know they had them in 7.62x39, but wasn't aware they made a subsonic round for the 5.45. Any links to your source(s)? The specified diameter is 5.6mm behind the step transition of the subsonic 5.45 cartridge 7u1. It uses a 5.1-5.2gram (78-80grain) bullet at 300m/s, and is designed to be fired only from an AKS-74U with the PBS-4 suppressor. The bullet is cored with lead instead of steel, and uses a thinner bullet jacket than normal 5.45 cartridges in order to gain the additional weight, and produce tumble upon impact. The change in materials also results in the bullet being shorter than the normal 7n6 by just over 1mm. The cartridge is considered accurate and effective for a maximum of 200m. A picture of the cartridge with its distinctive black-green nose paint and the visible step: http://gunsru.ru/images/patroni/5_45x39_US.jpg And the bullet, again with the step seen halfway between the neck seal and tip color: http://gunsru.ru/images/patroni/5_45x39_US_2.jpg Wow, I thought I saw everything. Probably doesn't cycle the bolt, huh? |
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