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1/8/2014 4:54:01 PM EDT
Looking for advice on what is a good load for plinking 223 using IMR 4064.  My book says 24.5 grains, but wanted to go with a less amount.  Just wondering how small I can go.  Can I go to 20 grain's?  Looking at shooting a 55 grain bullets.  Wanted to stretch my powder as far as I could.

Any advice would be welcomed.

Thanks!
1/8/2014 6:37:52 PM EDT
[#1]
This too is relative to my interest.  I have bought a few pounds of this and really have no idea what to do with it other than load  Garand  ammo with it.
1/8/2014 7:05:57 PM EDT
[#2]

Quoted:


Looking for advice on what is a good load for plinking 223 using IMR 4064.  My book says 24.5 grains, but wanted to go with a less amount.  Just wondering how small I can go.  Can I go to 20 grain's?  Looking at shooting a 55 grain bullets.  Wanted to stretch my powder as far as I could.



Any advice would be welcomed.



Thanks!
View Quote
IMR-4064 is not the optimum powder for 223, but it will work. I could never get any accuracy with it in 223, so I used it in 308.

 



Do not go with a lower charge than the minimum shown. That's called the start load.




Never go lower than the start load. You may get a detonation, something to avoid.




You want to use less powder, get a faster burning powder.
1/8/2014 7:07:11 PM EDT
[#3]
It's a great 308 powder, much like 4320 and 4895.  It's probably decent for the heavier 224" bullets.

Consult a couple of manuals.

Speer #13 has for the 55g bullets in the 223 Rem., a starting load of 24.5gr.

Nosler #4 has 24.5gr.

Sierra #V has for AR-15s, has 24.8gr, as a starting weight with the 55s.

So there's your answer, in my mind.

You are, of course, free to do as you please.

Chris
1/8/2014 7:11:32 PM EDT
[#4]
nevermind
1/8/2014 7:14:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Use a different powder if you're looking to use less.

1/9/2014 4:53:33 AM EDT
[#6]
I actually had very good accuracy with 23.5gn and a 55gn Hornady FMJ-BT.
1/9/2014 5:29:36 AM EDT
[#7]
Hodgdon list 23gr as a "START" charge.  Start is another way of saying MINIMUM.  

They list a start/minimum for a reason.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
1/9/2014 7:39:19 AM EDT
[#8]
The best way is ALWAYS to work up your own load. Figure out wha your rifle likes for yourself. Trying to take shortcuts in reloading is asking for trouble.

Also, 4064 wouldn't be a good choice for a plinking load. It meters like crap due to being extruded and having long kernals. "Plinking" indicates you're going to load a lot of them and unless you're planning to hand weigh each charge, you're going to hate how 4064 meters.
1/9/2014 2:47:20 PM EDT
[#9]
What would be a better plinking powder and at what weight?
1/9/2014 3:09:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote History
Quoted:
What would be a better plinking powder and at what weight?
View Quote



Any of the common .223 BALL powders are far easier to reload with, the BALL powders meter through your powder measure far easier... Ramshot TAC is very popular.

With that said, any load you do use really should preform to your accuracy standards.  By that, ( IMHO ) I mean you will still want to load for the best ,easily obtained accuracy. Even if that means a grain or two more than the lowest charge weight.

Accurate reloads are far better than just blasting ammo.... especially when it comes to practice ammo and your time spent reloading . It will help hone your shooting skills for very little $ more.  

So start with your powder of choice, at the starting charge weight and try some of the other charge weights between the Min. and Max. charge weights. Your rifle could easily prefer any of the weights between Min. and Max. charge weight.

Just my 2 cents... but time is money... at the reloading bench and actual trigger time. And the difference in saving a few grains of powder is cheap comparatively speaking.


BTW what brand 55 FMJ ? AND what reloading manual told you 24.5 grains ?

1/9/2014 3:13:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote History
Quoted:
Hodgdon list 23gr as a "START" charge.  Start is another way of saying MINIMUM.  

They list a start/minimum for a reason.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
View Quote


steve it depends on the bullet. I was just on Hodgdon' s site. One start load is 21.0 and another is 21.2

It also has 23.0 as a compressed load.

This is why you need several data sources.

The fact that they list IMR-4064 with a 55gr bullet would be good enough for me to try it. They usually don't list unsuitable powders.

OP, What exact bullet are you wanting to load?
1/9/2014 3:21:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote History
Quoted:
This too is relative to my interest.  I have bought a few pounds of this and really have no idea what to do with it other than load  Garand  ammo with it.
View Quote


IMHO , use it in your Garand. It can be a PITA to use in .223 , because of the small case mouth that you are trying to pour it through. Plus it is in the correct burn range for your Garand. Make sure that any data you use for it is Specific to the Garand rifle.

Bolt action load data for 4064 is usually to high of a charge weight and will result in a bent Op-Rod at least.  For that matter there are a few additional safety reloading steps when reloading for a M14 / M1A and or Garand.

Google "Garand Load data"
1/9/2014 3:31:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote History
Quoted:
What would be a better plinking powder and at what weight?
View Quote


Hodgdon H335. Somewhere between the recommended weights in a reloading manual or on Hodgdon's website.
1/9/2014 3:32:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote History
Quoted:


steve it depends on the bullet. I was just on Hodgdon' s site. One start load is 21.0 and another is 21.2

It also has 23.0 as a compressed load.

This is why you need several data sources.

The fact that they list IMR-4064 with a 55gr bullet would be good enough for me to try it. They usually don't list unsuitable powders.

OP, What exact bullet are you wanting to load?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hodgdon list 23gr as a "START" charge.  Start is another way of saying MINIMUM.  

They list a start/minimum for a reason.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp


steve it depends on the bullet. I was just on Hodgdon' s site. One start load is 21.0 and another is 21.2

It also has 23.0 as a compressed load.

This is why you need several data sources.

The fact that they list IMR-4064 with a 55gr bullet would be good enough for me to try it. They usually don't list unsuitable powders.

OP, What exact bullet are you wanting to load?


True.
Hodgdon list three 55gr bullets.  The Barnes All Copper High Dollar bullet, the Lead free Sinterfire Specialty bullet and the Standard Cup-n-Core Speer SP bullet.

Being the OP is trying to save money and get an extra 40+ rounds out of a pound of powder, I figured the high dollar Barnes was not his bullet of choice.

Being the Sintefire Specialty bullet is not you average bullet available at your local Gun Shop, I also figured this bullet was not his bullet of choice.

That leaves the Standard Cup-n-Core 55gr bullet.

Sorry if I assumed to much, my mistake.

OP, if you are using the High  $$$ Barnes bullet and you are trying to save money per load, use a different bullet.

OP, if you are using the Sintefire bullets let us know how they perform, I've never seen one or fired one.

If you are using a standard cup-n-core bullet, 23gr is your Minimum.
1/9/2014 3:44:00 PM EDT
[#15]
The OP stated 24.5gr The last time I checked 23.0gr was less and less is what he asked for.

My point was to check out more data sources before giving up. Geeeze.

He has not told us what bullet he is using. I assume nothing.
1/9/2014 6:48:50 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
The OP stated 24.5gr The last time I checked 23.0gr was less and less is what he asked for.

My point was to check out more data sources before giving up. Geeeze.

He has not told us what bullet he is using. I assume nothing.
View Quote


Right and from all the data sources listed and all the data sources I have checked, Hodgdon has the lowest Start charge of 23gr with a standard Cup-n-core bullet. YMMV
1/9/2014 7:03:56 PM EDT
[#17]
You can shoot H4895 with reduced loads up to 60% of max per Hodgdon:

H4895 powder was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced charges. For years
H4895 has been the top choice of cast bullet shooters. For this type of shooting, loads are reduced even more than the
hunting loads listed here. To create this type of target and plinking loads, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895: Refer
to our latest reloading manual or the Reloading Data Center found on this website; take the maximum H4895 charge listed
for any given cartridge and multiply it by 60%. The shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 f/s load, depending on the bullet
weight shown. This works ONLY where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown.
View Quote


Personally I think H4895 meters well, and works quite well with 55 grain bullets in 223, however I don't know how

much of a reduced charge will cycle your rifle.  I use 25.0 grains, and it cycles strong.
1/9/2014 7:05:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Not the best 223 powder. Slow burning, prolly better in a longer barrel if you are gonna try it. Pretty sure the Lee reloading book debunks the min charge myth and has formulas for calculating loads and velocity way outside the "norm." Its been awhile since i read it. Not the i endorse or recommend. Just saying, the gun is not going to self destruct .5 grain low on a 20+grain load. But there is a very real downside to using a low charge.  You will get a poor chamber seal, resulting in more blowback of carbon and gas, causing your rifle to foul more, and possibly jam. Also, a poor seal puts more force on the lugs ans bolt face potentially causing wear or failure. Then on top of that, it likely will not cycle your action resulting in short strokes, jams etc.
1/9/2014 7:10:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote History
Quoted:


Hodgdon H335. Somewhere between the recommended weights in a reloading manual or on Hodgdon's website.
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Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
What would be a better plinking powder and at what weight?


Hodgdon H335. Somewhere between the recommended weights in a reloading manual or on Hodgdon's website.


I like H335 myself. Meters very well from my LnL powder measure.

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1/9/2014 10:54:13 PM EDT
[#20]
I had one of the first Mini-14's available and had functioning problems with handloads using IMR4064. Switched to Win 748 and no more problems. All time favorite load is WW brass, WW standard primer, Hornady 53gr Match(flat base HP) and 26.5grs 748.
1/10/2014 7:05:13 PM EDT
[#21]
I have had very good luck with it for my 62gr air pulled bullets. Running 25.0gr. To help with metering issues on my dillon 1050 I put a small aquarium air pump secured to the powder hopper lid which seemed to take care of the bridging that occured prior to that.
With that said I like h335 and cfe223 more for my 55gr loads.
1/12/2014 8:57:51 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote History
Quoted:
I have had very good luck with it for my 62gr air pulled bullets. Running 25.0gr. To help with metering issues on my dillon 1050 I put a small aquarium air pump secured to the powder hopper lid which seemed to take care of the bridging that occured prior to that.
With that said I like h335 and cfe223 more for my 55gr loads.
View Quote



Did you do this for the vibration effect?
1/12/2014 11:37:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote History
Quoted:
Not the best 223 powder. Slow burning, prolly better in a longer barrel if you are gonna try it.
View Quote


Funny that a lot of you say this but many think Varget is great in the 223, even though it is slightly slower then 4064.  I'd stay with ball powder IF you can FIND any.  Otherwise, load some up and try it.

Get a Lee perfect powder measure.  It measures extruded very well and when set up, I normally weigh charges like I do with ball powder, one in 10 or so.  The results on the chrono indicate that it is just as consistent as hand weighing in my experience and I'd have no problem throwing 223 charges.
1/12/2014 2:22:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Yeah but the only reason to use Varget in .223 with a light bullet is for the temperature insensitivity, IMHO, not for the efficiency.  For plinking powders in .223, I've used Varget and R15, but I'd prefer to find a jug of H335 around here.
1/12/2014 2:50:25 PM EDT
[#25]
I'm reloading .308 for two bolt guns and a M1A so IMR4064 is what I selected. With the Lee Perfect powder dispenser and a digital scale I find it throws a very accurate charge. I started with  40 grs and will work up from that and find what shoots the best.

Everything I have read so far to me indicates that extruded stick powders are not a good choice for .223/5.56mm and I would choose something else.
1/12/2014 7:32:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote History
Quoted:



Did you do this for the vibration effect?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have had very good luck with it for my 62gr air pulled bullets. Running 25.0gr. To help with metering issues on my dillon 1050 I put a small aquarium air pump secured to the powder hopper lid which seemed to take care of the bridging that occured prior to that.
With that said I like h335 and cfe223 more for my 55gr loads.



Did you do this for the vibration effect?


Yes for imr 4064 and unique. No need with powders like h335.
1/13/2014 7:41:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote History
Quoted:


Yes for imr 4064 and unique. No need with powders like h335.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have had very good luck with it for my 62gr air pulled bullets. Running 25.0gr. To help with metering issues on my dillon 1050 I put a small aquarium air pump secured to the powder hopper lid which seemed to take care of the bridging that occured prior to that.
With that said I like h335 and cfe223 more for my 55gr loads.



Did you do this for the vibration effect?


Yes for imr 4064 and unique. No need with powders like h335.



I do the same thing with a back massager I picked up at the drug store, but an aquarium pump would be way quieter...


Hmm... Off to Amazon.
1/24/2014 7:33:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote History
Quoted:


...Also, 4064 wouldn't be a good choice for a plinking load. It meters like crap due to being extruded and having long kernals. "Plinking" indicates you're going to load a lot of them and unless you're planning to hand weigh each charge, you're going to hate how 4064 meters.
View Quote


I keep reading about how crappy it meters. Maybe with new powder measures; but not my two, very old Lyman 55s. I have an old chart for setting the hopper volumes, including  the old DuPont 4064. It states to set the charge at graduation mark "30" for 24 grains, and that's what they drop with IMR 4064, consistently within a few 10ths. Very little occasional crunching, nothing more.
1/25/2014 4:39:37 AM EDT
[#29]
I use a Lee perfect powder measure and 4064 meters thru it just fine.
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