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Posted: 1/3/2014 6:39:28 AM EDT
Hey guys, did a little experimenting with my pmc crimped brass last night... used my chamfer tool to get rid of enough material to allow the primer to go in. Im not confident this will end well though so putting up pics for the hives opinions
 
And just for fun. Somehow this happened... how do I fix this? lol 
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It's hard to tell for sure but it looks like you have FAR too much chamfer. You just "kiss" it to remove the crimp--you do NOT want to make a V-shaped channel, as it leaves the primer unsupported for too much of its depth.
The upside-down primer can be <very gently and slowly> pushed out with a universal decapping die. |
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It's hard to tell for sure but it looks like you have FAR too much chamfer. You just "kiss" it to remove the crimp--you do NOT want to make a V-shaped channel, as it leaves the primer unsupported for too much of its depth. The upside-down primer can be <very gently and slowly> pushed out with a universal decapping die. so using the lee Full length sizing die with built in decapper is a bad idea? I tried getting the primer in after each turn of the chamfer tool, and that is when it finally when in, and with a little more force than usual i might add.. I tapped the bottom of the case against the desk to see if it disloged the primer and it did not. I will try to put it in with less chamfer tonight when i get home. I'm still a little gun shy with primers. I've had a few flatten out in the pocket from too much force, they shot fine, but not sure if it has any negative side-effects |
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Every once in a while you will get a smashed in primer... for general blasting ammo I keep driving on. I've fired precision intended loads with smashed primers with no noticeable negative effect. I've smashed many primers over the years and have never had one of them fail to fire.
As mentioned... SLOWLY run the case up in the die and GENTLY push the upside down primer out... I've also experienced this over the years and have reused the SAME primer with no negative effect. |
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A photo of the primer pocket without a primer would be easier to examine, and shot with a glancing light instead of head on will help, too (the bottom photo is an example).
I would fish that primer out with a pocket knife or a sharp scribe. Or push it out with my universal decapping die. Try to develop a feel for primer seating. Seat til they just bottom. They'll still shoot if over seated enough to notice on the cup, but it might crack the nugget of priming compound. I shot a bunch that way when I first started. |
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Way, way too much of the case was removed when the crimp was gouged out. Do not ruin any more cases like this with a poor make shift tool.  Get a proper primer pocket reamer. Hornady makes a good one, Lyman a poor one. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/176759/hornady-primer-pocket-reamer-tool-large This is what you want. The other option is swaging, RCBS swager die $40 or Dillon swager $100. |
| make-shift tool? I have read numerous times the Chamfer tool can be used to take the crimp out? No where local has the swage or reamer tool, and Im not paying more for shipping than the dam tool costs. So if I can figure out a sweet spot doing it this way that would be great. But like i said , $13 for shipping on a $10-12 item is freaking retarded. |
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Quoted: make-shift tool? I have read numerous times the Chamfer tool can be used to take the crimp out? Only by folks who who do it wrong and hog out primer pockets. The thing about the internet is you get bad advice that you need to filter out. No where local has the swage or reamer tool, and Im not paying more for shipping than the dam tool costs. So if I can figure out a sweet spot doing it this way that would be great. But like i said , $13 for shipping on a $10-12 item is freaking retarded. |
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One of these might help so you don't have to ream as much. http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/lgprod/9-61680.jpg what is that? My once fired Black Hills blue box brass looks like the brass on the left of that pic  I was planning on giong to cabelas today and picking up the tumbler, i dont think they have any reamers.. I will look
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The reversed primer happens occasionally.
Gentlly de-prime the case, making sure to wear ear and eye pro whilst doing so. Most primers have an internal coating of lacquer or some similar substance, and the old adage of using WD-40 to neutralize them seldom works quickly, if at all. IIRC, some poster made an attempt to neutralize primers by immersing them in various oils of varying viscosities for varying lengths of time, and all the primers went >>BANG<<, nevertheless. |
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what is that? My once fired Black Hills blue box brass looks like the brass on the left of that pic I was planning on giong to cabelas today and picking up the tumbler, i dont think they have any reamers.. I will lookQuoted:
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One of these might help so you don't have to ream as much. http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/lgprod/9-61680.jpg what is that? My once fired Black Hills blue box brass looks like the brass on the left of that pic I was planning on giong to cabelas today and picking up the tumbler, i dont think they have any reamers.. I will lookIt's a primer pocket uniformer, it will help open them up so it doesn't take as much force. |
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thanks guys. Cabelas has a RCBS swager die, looks like I might be able to get that to work with my Breechlock press with a little modification. Its $35 at cabelas vs 89 for the RCBS version of the dillon 600.
Im thinking im going to hold off on a tumbler, and just clean the brass by hand if they are that dirty for now, and get the tools that will actually help in loading vs just making things pretty. We will see what cabelas has and go from there lol. |
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It's a primer pocket uniformer, it will help open them up so it doesn't take as much force. Quoted:
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One of these might help so you don't have to ream as much. http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/lgprod/9-61680.jpg what is that? My once fired Black Hills blue box brass looks like the brass on the left of that pic I was planning on giong to cabelas today and picking up the tumbler, i dont think they have any reamers.. I will lookIt's a primer pocket uniformer, it will help open them up so it doesn't take as much force. No, a primer pocket uniformer is a simple end milling device that cuts the primer pocket to a uniform depth. It does not "open up" the primer pocket, nor does it reduce the force required to fully seat a primer. |
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Be sure to read the set up and adjustment tutorial up top for the swager.
I'm in the same spot. I have a Wilson crimp remover, but I don't like it because it burnishes the side of the primer pockets too much and enlarges them slightly; they feel like the brass from my 3 times fired Highpower loads, looser than I would prefer. I have a bunch of WCC and LC brass that either needs to be reworked or traded off, and right now I'm leaning towards setting them back for Hard Times. I planned to buy a Dillon or RCBS die this week, but haven't been far from the house. Question for the forum. Has anyone confirmed that Magtech primers will seat through the crimp without issue? I bought a box of small primers to try, but haven't. |
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thanks guys. Cabelas has a RCBS swager die, looks like I might be able to get that to work with my Breechlock press with a little modification. Its $35 at cabelas vs 89 for the RCBS version of the dillon 600. Im thinking im going to hold off on a tumbler, and just clean the brass by hand if they are that dirty for now, and get the tools that will actually help in loading vs just making things pretty. We will see what cabelas has and go from there lol. You will find that when using any primer pocket swaging device that is very beneficial to lube the male spud every so often in order to reduce the force required to perform the operation. Naturally, such lube must be completely removed prior to seating the primer. For this reason, I prefer water-soluble lubes, such as are offered by RCBS, amongst others. The same lube can be used while sizing the case body, of course. In any event, a simple water rinse removes all lube. |
Ok, thanks for all the advice gents. I Might just spend the extra coin and get the bench top model of the RCBS, seems a little more efficient, and only get 1 box of bullets  . We will see what they have and if they will give me a military discount. Seems hit and miss with them, depends on the cashier and which way the wind is blowing i guess.
Okay guys, so Heres my debacle. I need a tumbler and I need a swager. Cant get both right now, budget doesn't allow. So, im thinking about getting the tumbler, and still using the chamfer tool but only doing 1-2 turns at a wack until the primer goes in? I know that its not the prefered method, but which one do I get, the swager or tumbler? |
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Quoted: Okay guys, so Heres my debacle. I need a tumbler and I need a swager. Cant get both right now, budget doesn't allow. So, im thinking about getting the tumbler, and still using the chamfer tool but only doing 1-2 turns at a wack until the primer goes in? I know that its not the prefered method, but which one do I get, the swager or tumbler? I know we have been trying to help you through a lot lately and honestly, I'm not sure if you are listening to everything, but this tool is what you need. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/176759/hornady-primer-pocket-reamer-tool-large you don't have to get it from midway. You don't need a tumbler, especially if you only use your own brass. I clean my most of my brass in a water bath with lemishine. |
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It's a primer pocket uniformer, it will help open them up so it doesn't take as much force. Quoted:
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One of these might help so you don't have to ream as much. http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/lgprod/9-61680.jpg what is that? My once fired Black Hills blue box brass looks like the brass on the left of that pic I was planning on giong to cabelas today and picking up the tumbler, i dont think they have any reamers.. I will lookIt's a primer pocket uniformer, it will help open them up so it doesn't take as much force. No it won't. It uniforms the depth and makes the bottom of the primer pocket smooth and even. It will have zero effect on crimp. 
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No it won't. It uniforms the depth and makes the bottom of the primer pocket smooth and even. It will have zero effect on crimp. Quoted:
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One of these might help so you don't have to ream as much. http://cdn1.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/lgprod/9-61680.jpg what is that? My once fired Black Hills blue box brass looks like the brass on the left of that pic I was planning on giong to cabelas today and picking up the tumbler, i dont think they have any reamers.. I will lookIt's a primer pocket uniformer, it will help open them up so it doesn't take as much force. No it won't. It uniforms the depth and makes the bottom of the primer pocket smooth and even. It will have zero effect on crimp. How would it not widen the hole? This is like the one I use, and its done the job. 
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Helpful hint: the RCBS die is NOT LIKE a sizing die, you don't cram the handle to full stop.
You will bend or break the support rod. Get a small magnifying glass or lamp, take a few cases, look first, then apply some force to the brass, remove and inspect. Very quickly you will get a feel for the force required to just mash the crimp back into a radius. It doesn't take much, you will see. MUCH better than trying to cut them out. |
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Helpful hint: the RCBS die is NOT LIKE a sizing die, you don't cram the handle to full stop. You will bend or break the support rod. Get a small magnifying glass or lamp, take a few cases, look first, then apply some force to the brass, remove and inspect. Very quickly you will get a feel for the force required to just mash the crimp back into a radius. It doesn't take much, you will see. MUCH better than trying to cut them out. Thanks!! Only problem I'm having now is modifying the lee press worked to even the base out, but now the base that knocks the case off isn't tall enough to do the job lol. So might have to run to the hardware store tomorrow to get a piece of pipe to slip under it. |
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I have used several methods/tools for cutting the crimps away. One thing I noticed is that, even with the crimp gone, there is often times a tight spot when seating the primer, about 1/2 the way from being fully seated. I believe that when the primer is crimped, it slightly distorts the walls of the primer pocket and causing a tight spot. This does not occur with brass that has been swaged properly. I have used the Dillon 600 tool and also the RCBS swager die setup. I actually like the RCBS swager die because it centers the support rod (rod that goes inside the case). The 600 does not do this, and leaves a footprint inside the brass which sometimes crosses the flash hole, possibly distorting it. It may not hurt anything, I just prefer to avoid it. Be careful setting up the support rod- they bend easily. Case head thickness does vary amongst different manufacturers, so the amount of swaging force will change with different types of brass. For example, if you set up for LC 5.56 and swage a WCC case, there will be a noticable change when swaging. The slack will disappear earlier on and if you push it, the support rod may bend. The amount of swaging will be affected by this adjustment. A friend had a priming problem with his Dillon 650 which was actually caused by swaging 2 different brass types and not paying attention to the results. |
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007- I have used several methods/tools for cutting the crimps away. One thing I noticed is that, even with the crimp gone, there is often times a tight spot when seating the primer, about 1/2 the way from being fully seated. I believe that when the primer is crimped, it slightly distorts the walls of the primer pocket and causing a tight spot. This does not occur with brass that has been swaged properly. I have used the Dillon 600 tool and also the RCBS swager die setup. I actually like the RCBS swager die because it centers the support rod (rod that goes inside the case). The 600 does not do this, and leaves a footprint inside the brass which sometimes crosses the flash hole, possibly distorting it. It may not hurt anything, I just prefer to avoid it. Be careful setting up the support rod- they bend easily. Case head thickness does vary amongst different manufacturers, so the amount of swaging force will change with different types of brass. For example, if you set up for LC 5.56 and swage a WCC case, there will be a noticable change when swaging. The slack will disappear earlier on and if you push it, the support rod may bend. The amount of swaging will be affected by this adjustment. A friend had a priming problem with his Dillon 650 which was actually caused by swaging 2 different brass types and not paying attention to the results. thanks Ronnie. I appreciate it! Seems to be working, however I am having issues with setting it up as it doesnt like my lee press. I will fix that issue tomorrow with a quick trip to the hardware store. Hopefully that will fix the issues im seeing |
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Some swaging tips, Sort cases to headstamp, the webs are/can be different thickness and will under/over crimp when you switch headstamps. Something to check when you change headstamps. I put LC together all years, same with WCC. Correct adjustment is important so you don't break your swager. The older units would bend the rod, think the newer ones have a hardened rod. So go easy on the press handle. How to adjust for proper swage; set up per instructions. Swage 1 case and attempt to seat a primer. Doesn't seat easy, stop and adjust swager for more swage. Repeat as needed. If primer seats too easy, case is ruined, salvage the primer. Adjust swage for less swaging. This is why you do 1 case and check. The only part of this swager I use are the swaging spuds. They can be used as primer crimp removed/primer crimp not removed tool.  Spud doesn't fully enter primer pocket, this case has a primer crimp.  Crimp removed, spud enters case fully. If primer pocket is swaged correctly, hold spud upright and case will hang from the spud. If case falls off, it's over swaged. Good luck |
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Some swaging tips, Sort cases to headstamp, the webs are/can be different thickness and will under/over crimp when you switch headstamps. Something to check when you change headstamps. I put LC together all years, same with WCC. Correct adjustment is important so you don't break your swager. The older units would bend the rod, think the newer ones have a hardened rod. So go easy on the press handle. How to adjust for proper swage; set up per instructions. Swage 1 case and attempt to seat a primer. Doesn't seat easy, stop and adjust swager for more swage. Repeat as needed. If primer seats too easy, case is ruined, salvage the primer. Adjust swage for less swaging. This is why you do 1 case and check. The only part of this swager I use are the swaging spuds. They can be used as primer crimp removed/primer crimp not removed tool. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Tools/PA280273.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Tools/PA280273.jpg</a> Spud doesn't fully enter primer pocket, this case has a primer crimp. <a href="http://s250.photobucket.com/user/dryflash3/media/Tools/PA280274.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Tools/PA280274.jpg</a> Crimp removed, spud enters case fully. If primer pocket is swaged correctly, hold spud upright and case will hang from the spud. If case falls off, it's over swaged. Good luck Huh. That's pretty nifty. Thanks;) I'm thinking I'm going to need a new bench soon. Mine is starting to not like the press lol. Howitzer I can get out tuned tomorrow and nock out all these crimped cases!!! |
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Why? If it's in the Bushey to spend 100 on a single use tool, sure. But 35 on this and spend the extra on components Quoted:
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If you need to swage 1000 pcs of brass get the Dillon 600 Why? If it's in the Bushey to spend 100 on a single use tool, sure. But 35 on this and spend the extra on components Having used both the RCBS swager, and the Dillon swager, the Dillon is at least 2X (maybe 3X) faster. I've also used the other methods (i.e. Hornady chucked in a drill, RCBS case prep station, etc). If you're occasionally doing a couple hundred, the RCBS will work fine (my former situation). If you're doing thousands of them (my present situation) the Dillon is a lifesaver. For me, both the RCBS & the Dillon are better than anything where I have to hold the brass in my hand (hurts the fingers too bad - even with gloves). Edited to clarify: I'm talking about the RCBS Primer Pocket Swaging Combo (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/235832/rcbs-primer-pocket-swager-combo-2), not their bench mounted unit (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/319662/rcbs-bench-mounted-primer-pocket-swager) - haven't used that one, but it seems quite similar to the Dillon unit. |
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Well gents, I DID IT. Thanks to youtube i figured it out. I have now swaged 50 cases and counting on the RCBS Swager, I will say. Im going to put some lee lube on the nipple, its getting pretty hard to get the case off, and sometihng is going to break, more than likely my 60+year old bench. Just have to clean out the primer pockets before I stick the primer in there I guess. Any suggestions on how to do this? the lee lube is supposed to not interfere with the primers, but just figure I'd clean them out anyhow..
Oh. I went to the local hardware store and picked up a 3/4" piece of copper pipe thats about 1-1.5" tall and slid it over my ram. To make this work properly, you have to take the wire bushing off the ram, or the copper pipe wont stay in place. Thats it! So my dremeling of the spent primer catcher was in vein, all i had to do was spend a dollar on a copper pipe haha. ON TO LOADING SOME 55gr Hornady SP w/cannelure's!  I picked these up for $2 LESS a box than the FMJ's at cabelas. Not sure if they had them miss-priced but im not going to complain 
Ok so the lube package says it will not degrade gun powder. So putting a minute amount of lube on the swaging nipple, do I need to clean the primer pockets? |
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Well gents, I DID IT. Thanks to youtube i figured it out. I have now swaged 50 cases and counting on the RCBS Swager, I will say. Im going to put some lee lube on the nipple, its getting pretty hard to get the case off, and sometihng is going to break, more than likely my 60+year old bench. Just have to clean out the primer pockets before I stick the primer in there I guess. Any suggestions on how to do this? the lee lube is supposed to not interfere with the primers, but just figure I'd clean them out anyhow.. Oh. I went to the local hardware store and picked up a 3/4" piece of copper pipe thats about 1-1.5" tall and slid it over my ram. To make this work properly, you have to take the wire bushing off the ram, or the copper pipe wont stay in place. Thats it! So my dremeling of the spent primer catcher was in vein, all i had to do was spend a dollar on a copper pipe haha. ON TO LOADING SOME 55gr Hornady SP w/cannelure's! I picked these up for $2 LESS a box than the FMJ's at cabelas. Not sure if they had them miss-priced but im not going to complain
Ok so the lube package says it will not degrade gun powder. So putting a minute amount of lube on the swaging nipple, do I need to clean the primer pockets? Yes. Just because the lube will not degrade gunpowder doesn't mean the lube won't have a negative effect on the primer. Better safe than sorry. Would suck to re-load a number of ctgs, and find that the primers were de-activated. |
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How fast can you decrimp 1000 pieces of brass with the rcbs tool? I've been doing case prep on LC 67 brass for my M1 Garand this winter after shearing two drive hubs on my LnL*. Using the RCBS primer pocket swager combo tool in my rockchucker, I was doing 50 rounds in about 9 to 10 minutes. Lubing the spud with imperial size wax every fifth round did wonders on cutting this time down from about 15 minutes/50 cases and greatly reduces bench destroying forces. I was only processing 200 rounds at a time (not thousands at once) because I like to break up the monotany. I wouldn't want to swage 1000 rounds like this in one go, but if I had to, I think it would take 3+ hours. Follow the instructions that come with the tool - and when swaging, put the piece of brass on the rod and then walk the press handle down so the spud meets up with the primer pocket (watch it - things can get pinchy fast). Don't try to ride spud up onto the rod. Since the spud provides no real support for the case, it's unlikely it will be perfectly vertical and will ding the case mouth on the rod. Good luck! * Pro tip - Having spare parts for you press is useless if you are ineffective at teaching your 17 year old nephew that the finer art of "Not Forcing It" is really an important lesson of reloading. |
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I would invest in a swager. I love the Dillon. It doesn't remove material, is quicker, and you get repeatable results. It would suck to find out you didn't remove enough of the crimp with your reamer when you're priming them. Also, that's PSD brass not PMC. roger that. Why does PMC outsource the brass for their XTAC line but not their bronze line? weird. |
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PMC's military brass. https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product/APMCXP193.jpg S Korea. Good stuff. I've used the RCBS swager to decrimp mine with good success. Quoted:
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Who is PSD, anyway? I found some of this headstamp not too long ago. PMC's military brass. https://4b1e874935ea5d25a97e-f099844d0e354c7ab50c55a966be6870.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/product/APMCXP193.jpg S Korea. Good stuff. I've used the RCBS swager to decrimp mine with good success. yup. mine are taking primers perfectly now:) |
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