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Posted: 12/28/2013 6:48:54 PM EDT
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Looking at 223 rem die sets. What is the difference between small base die set and a full length die set?
I am a noob reloading just getting into it this month. I have been just reading my manuals and educating myself. |
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Get the FL die set, very rarely is a SB die set needed if your sizing die is set correctly. You will need a case gauge or headspace gauge to set your sizing die correctly. Why? I have read the instructions for 3 different die brands and none of them say this. |
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Quoted: Why? I have read the instructions for 3 different die brands and none of them say this. Quoted: Quoted: Get the FL die set, very rarely is a SB die set needed if your sizing die is set correctly. You will need a case gauge or headspace gauge to set your sizing die correctly. Why? I have read the instructions for 3 different die brands and none of them say this. For some reason new reloaders have problems setting up dies. Instructions not all that clear, if they get read. A gauge makes things easier for them. |
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Why? I have read the instructions for 3 different die brands and none of them say this. Quoted:
Quoted:
Get the FL die set, very rarely is a SB die set needed if your sizing die is set correctly. You will need a case gauge or headspace gauge to set your sizing die correctly. Why? I have read the instructions for 3 different die brands and none of them say this. Motor1, it isn't a requirement, but more like prudent. Dies and shell holders may tend to set the shoulder datum back more than "necessary". With gages, the loader may stop at "just enough". That's all DryFlash meant. Brass will tend to be worked less if the shoulder datum is bumped just up to standards or just enough for the particular chamber. Dies are commonly built to be able to size back more than necessary for standard specifications in case the user has a really short sample for a chamber. Instructions will default to cam-over or some seat of the pants procedure. Gages allow the loader to do this without using what amounts to doing it blind. Loading with gages will allow the loader to hit either the minimum amount of shoulder bump required or enough to hit SAAMI specs without over-working the brass. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year |
| Basically a small base sizing die sizes brass closer to a factory sized case. The small base die will size the body of the brass near the case head a little more than a full length die. Factory brass is sized to work in everyone's guns and is sized to minimum specs in the body of the case. The shoulder and neck should be the same whether small or regular sizing dies. That said, I've reloaded for several AR's and friends with theirs using regular full length sizing dies. Small based dies overwork brass if they are not needed. I'd go with regular full-length sizing dies BUT should you have a rifle that needs a small based sizer then buy a sizing die only later. It'd be a very slim chance you'd need a small based die. I do recommend a case headspace gauge such as Hornady's Headspace Gauge Set or even a RCBS Precision Mic to check how much you're pushing the shoulder back when sizing. Most problems occur when not pushing the shoulder back enough or pushing it back too far. |
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I agree and always have that they, gages, can be useful.
To blatantly state that they are "required" is misleading at best. This is a technical forum and as with any of these forums all posts can be found by any search engine. We are doing a miss service when we post opinion no matter how good as fact. The new reloder should read the manual as well as the individual die instructions. This is what is "required'. Just do a Google search and I bet you can find the statement I highlighted in red. Good advice? Sure. A requirement? No. |
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I agree and always have that they, gages, can be useful. To blatantly state that they are "required" is misleading at best. This is a technical forum and as with any of these forums all posts can be found by any search engine. We are doing a miss service when we post opinion no matter how good as fact. The new reloder should read the manual as well as the individual die instructions. This is what is "required'. Just do a Google search and I bet you can find the statement I highlighted in red. Good advice? Sure. A requirement? No. Quoted:
I agree and always have that they, gages, can be useful. To blatantly state that they are "required" is misleading at best. This is a technical forum and as with any of these forums all posts can be found by any search engine. We are doing a miss service when we post opinion no matter how good as fact. The new reloder should read the manual as well as the individual die instructions. This is what is "required'. Just do a Google search and I bet you can find the statement I highlighted in red. Good advice? Sure. A requirement? No. Seems like nitpicking here to me. Re-read dry flash's statement. Quoted:
Get the FL die set, very rarely is a SB die set needed if your sizing die is set correctly. You will need a case gauge or headspace gauge to set your sizing die correctly. We all happy again if we change the 'need' to 'likely will want' then? I don't consider gauges for pistol a requirement, but I'm with flash for rifle calibers, and include the gage when setting up a friend to reload in his 'buy list,' for reasons well understood - lots easier to use a gage to get your sizing die set up correctly, quickly. |
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Quoted:
Seems like nitpicking here to me. Re-read dry flash's statement. We all happy again if we change the 'need' to 'likely will want' then? I don't consider gauges for pistol a requirement, but I'm with flash for rifle calibers, and include the gage when setting up a friend to reload in his 'buy list,' for reasons well understood - lots easier to use a gage to get your sizing die set up correctly, quickly. Quoted:
Quoted:
I agree and always have that they, gages, can be useful. To blatantly state that they are "required" is misleading at best. This is a technical forum and as with any of these forums all posts can be found by any search engine. We are doing a miss service when we post opinion no matter how good as fact. The new reloder should read the manual as well as the individual die instructions. This is what is "required'. Just do a Google search and I bet you can find the statement I highlighted in red. Good advice? Sure. A requirement? No. Seems like nitpicking here to me. Re-read dry flash's statement. Quoted:
Get the FL die set, very rarely is a SB die set needed if your sizing die is set correctly. You will need a case gauge or headspace gauge to set your sizing die correctly. We all happy again if we change the 'need' to 'likely will want' then? I don't consider gauges for pistol a requirement, but I'm with flash for rifle calibers, and include the gage when setting up a friend to reload in his 'buy list,' for reasons well understood - lots easier to use a gage to get your sizing die set up correctly, quickly. .223 is not normally considered a pistol caliber, and if it was it would likely need about the same handling as a rifle. While you can squeeze brass back far enough to work in ANY chamber, you will have shorter life from case stretching doing things this way. If it goes far enough case head separation occurs. By measuring how much you have set the shoulder back you can make the ammunition fit YOUR rifle without causing excessive case stretching. |
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Quoted:
I agree and always have that they, gages, can be useful. To blatantly state that they are "required" is misleading at best. This is a technical forum and as with any of these forums all posts can be found by any search engine. We are doing a miss service when we post opinion no matter how good as fact. The new reloader should read the manual as well as the individual die instructions. This is what is "required'. Just do a Google search and I bet you can find the statement I highlighted in red. Good advice? Sure. A requirement? No. I agree. How have I made it through all these years without case gauges, which are not exact duplicates of your chamber unless you have the same guy with the reamer that cut your chamber cut the case gauge right after. When setting up your dies, after sizing your first case, drop it into the chamber. Does it go all the way into battery, and will a bolt close on it fully? If so, will it extract without issue? If it does, then move on to making a dummy cartridge (no primer or charge), and get into your bullet seating depth. I know a lot of people use case gauges, but I am not one of them. I've been reloading for the AR15 and AR10 for at least a decade, and have picked the brains of guys who are above-average intelligence that have been safely reloading since the 1970's, have been shooting service rifle hi-power since then, etc. We're talking about reloading specifically for gas guns. They don't use case gauges, and load for their chambers. Setting the shoulder back is one of the main nuances of a gas gun, compared to a manual turn bolt, but as long as you set your die up to consistently size the shoulder back sufficiently, and maintain disciplined reloading technique, you will be good to go in that area. For someone like me, case gauges would be a waste of money at this point, and I don't see that changing since I have successfully loaded for dozens of AR15's, AR10's, different calibers in both of those frames, in addition to bolt guns. |
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