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Posted: 12/20/2013 8:24:02 AM EDT
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I loaded a bunch of test rounds for my .45 Colt lever gun. All rounds were loaded with Fiocchi large pistol primers. Some were loaded with Alliant 2400, and some were loaded with Winchester 231. The Winchester rounds (10 grains) ignited without issue. Two of the four rounds with 2400 did not ignite the powder. One of the 2400 loads was 18 grains (255 grain lead) and the other was 22 grains (230 grain plated). The primer fired, lodged the bullet it the bore, and left a mess of unburned powder in the action. Temperature was right around 32 degrees, but the rounds were not cold. They spent the night in the house, the trip to the range in the warm car, and were fired within 10 minutes of being brought out of the car. Did I miss something about 2400? Has anyone else had this problem? |
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Wax/lube on the base of the bullets? I checked all of them as I was loading. The gas checks were all clean. Lube only in the grooves. What was the temp when you fired these loads? It was right around 32F. The bullets came from a warm house/car and were fired within 10 minutes of being brought outside. Loose bullet fit in the case? Measure the expander, should be .450" or smaller. But first the sizing die must do its job correctly for the correct fit. The RCBS Cowboy die set expander is larger for lead only bullets. I checked the crimp and made sure the bullets didn’t move. Everything was solid. I'm using the Lee 4-die set with FCD. |
| The FCD has been know to size lead & plated bullets in the loaded round. The bullets diameter may not spring back as much as the brass, leaving an undersize, loose bullet. Pressure does not build on firing when the bullet is pushed forward to soon. Its not a powder problem unless powder got wet or contaminated some how. |
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Quoted: The FCD has been know to size lead & plated bullets in the loaded round. The bullets diameter may not spring back as much as the brass, leaving an undersize, loose bullet. Pressure does not build on firing when the bullet is pushed forward to soon. Its not a powder problem unless powder got wet or contaminated some how. Yes, this is the most likely culprit. 2400 is more suited to .44 magnum pressures, without high initial pressure, it didn't ignite properly in a .45 Colt round. A heavy roll crimp is better for these bullets. |
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I don't agree with the last post. 2400 is one of the "GO-TO" powders for shooting cast bullets from rifle cases. Many of the popular loads barely take up half of the case capacity. I use 15gr to 18gr in a 7.62x54R and NEVER had an ignition issue.
OP. Take one of your loaded rounds and press the bullet against a hard surface. Or grab one with pliers and see how tightly its being held in the case. If the FCD is swaging the bullet inside of the case it will be loose or at least not very tight. |
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Quoted:
I'm going to try crimping the rounds more to see if that makes a difference. I know the powder is good because we loaded a bunch of .357 rounds from the same container and they worked fine. Crimping only keeps the bullet from moving in or out of the case. Most of the bullet hold comes from it being a press fit in the case (neck tension) if the carbide ring in your FCD is swaging your bullet it is removing nearly all of its neck tension. No amount of crimp will compensate for that. |
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Quoted: dryflash, there is no problem or concern with using the RIFLE FCD. It is THE true FCD. it's the pistol version with bulge buster (carbide ring in bottom) that may be a problem with cast bullets. |
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Yes that is why I wrote "may" be a problem. You know as well as anyone it all depends on the diameter of the bullet. If the bullet diameter + the case wall thickness x2 adds up to more than the carbide ring diameter the ring WILL squeeze the bullet and if it does it WILL reduce the bullet's diameter inside of the brass case.
We have done this by misstate. My brother had a Lee carbide pistol die that had the de capping pin removed. He mistook this as to be his FCD until we ran a couple rounds into it. Of course it sized the brass down to "reload" size. After doing this the lead bullet could be pulled out of the case with just your fingers. The bullets were scrap. They were sized down inside of the case. The brass sprung back ever so slightly but the lead did not. The FCD "can" do the same thing if the bullets are big enough. |
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Many responders have hit on neck tension as an issue and it's a valid concern.
I still say look to the primers. 231 is a fast easy to ignite powder. 2400 is slower and not as easy to light as 231 but it's is not hard to light and if your primers are marginal you may not get good ignition. Couple that with light neck tension and you have a recipe for a stuck bullet like you ended up with. |
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I have loaded many rounds of 250 cast over 16 grains of 2400 for my neighbors .45 Colt revolvers with no issues.
I am using magnum primers and a roll crimp though. I do not like the Lee FDC because of the way it crimps, I prefer a roll crimp on cast .45 bullets. |
| Were you by chance using brand new brass? I found that large caliber handgun brass must be full length resized and a serious roll crimp used in order to ignite slow burning pistol powders. Weird results can happen on both ends of the spectrum.......squibs and/or over pressure symptoms from inadequate neck tension. |
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Quoted: Were you by chance using brand new brass? I found that large caliber handgun brass must be full length resized and a serious roll crimp used in order to ignite slow burning pistol powders. Weird results can happen on both ends of the spectrum.......squibs and/or over pressure symptoms from inadequate neck tension. |
| Plated bullets should not have a serious roll crimp from what i read. Neck tension is what is needed to hold the bullets. http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq.aspx?n=532738 |
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Quoted: I will update with my results. I was able to sneak to the range today for a half hour or so. I loaded some rounds with the same 255 grain cast bullet and 18.5 grains of 2400. This time I used Winchester WLP (standard or magnum loads), and CCI Large Pistol Magnum primers. Both primers worked flawlessly. I fired about 30 rounds of each primer type with no issues. I guess I found the problem with my original loads. Thanks for all the help. |
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Quoted: UPDATE I was able to sneak to the range today for a half hour or so. I loaded some rounds with the same 255 grain cast bullet and 18.5 grains of 2400. This time I used Winchester WLP (standard or magnum loads), and CCI Large Pistol Magnum primers. Both primers worked flawlessly. I fired about 30 rounds of each primer type with no issues. I guess I found the problem with my original loads. Thanks for all the help. Quoted: Quoted: I will update with my results. I was able to sneak to the range today for a half hour or so. I loaded some rounds with the same 255 grain cast bullet and 18.5 grains of 2400. This time I used Winchester WLP (standard or magnum loads), and CCI Large Pistol Magnum primers. Both primers worked flawlessly. I fired about 30 rounds of each primer type with no issues. I guess I found the problem with my original loads. Thanks for all the help. What was the temp when you fired these loads?
If cold had a part in your test, you may want to switch to a magnum primer. If you do, work up your load carefully. 4th post nailed it.  |
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Quoted: What was the temp when you fired these loads? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I will update with my results. I was able to sneak to the range today for a half hour or so. I loaded some rounds with the same 255 grain cast bullet and 18.5 grains of 2400. This time I used Winchester WLP (standard or magnum loads), and CCI Large Pistol Magnum primers. Both primers worked flawlessly. I fired about 30 rounds of each primer type with no issues. I guess I found the problem with my original loads. Thanks for all the help. What was the temp when you fired these loads? If cold had a part in your test, you may want to switch to a magnum primer. If you do, work up your load carefully. 4th post nailed it. |
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