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Posted: 12/3/2013 12:32:13 PM EDT
| How many of you guys actually use them? If you can a brief explanation as to why you do or dont would be appreciated. Thanks guys. |
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I use the RCBS lockout die in my 5 hold progressive press when reloading pistol calibers. I like that I don't have to eyeball the die - it locks up when undercharged / overcharged. I dial it in before each session, and test that it's appropriately reacting to both over / under conditions.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/536792/rcbs-lock-out-die |
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Quoted:
I use the RCBS lockout die in my 5 hold progressive press when reloading pistol calibers. I like that I don't have to eyeball the die - it locks up when undercharged / overcharged. I dial it in before each session, and test that it's appropriately reacting to both over / under conditions. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/536792/rcbs-lock-out-die Could not have said it better myself.  This is what I also do.
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I'm a big believer in powder check dies, and use them for all my progressive reloading operations. I used to use the RCBS lock-out die, which works well, but only works on straight-walled pistol cases. It won't work for rifle cases. For that, I was using the RCBS powder check die, which is just like the Hornady powder cop, in that it provides a visual reference to indicate the level of powder in a case. For me, this was still beneficial over just eyeballing the powder, because I usually use bullet feeders, and on my RCBS Pro 2000's, the bullet seating happens towards the back of the press, making visual checks on the powder problematic even if you're hand-feeding bullets.
I have since switched to using the Dillon powder check system, which provides an audible alarm for a high or low powder charge. I find it even more accurate than the RCBS lock-out die. I consider it a mandatory accessory for use when using bullet feeders, even on rifle cases where a double-charge isn't possible. I have had some instances with powder bridging in the measure, and the powder check die catches that immediately. Sure, you'd eventually figure it out anyway, once the measure finally dumps the accumulated powder all over the place - but then, when did the bridge happen? The previous case? Previous two? To one of the cases that already dropped into the completed cartridge bin? Which one is that? Crap - now you're pulling down all the rounds you just made, because you don't know which one it was... While primarily designed for the Dillon 650 and 1050 presses, I was able to adapt the powder check to my Pro 2000's by simply drilling a hole in the frame (a stout, case-iron frame - so no worries about compromising it's integrity). For me, it's an ideal system. I leave the powder check die permanently installed in the fixed station 3 on the press. All I have to do, when switching calibers, is install the correct powder rod (.22, .30, or .45 caliber), place a properly charged case under it, raise the ram, and dial the reaction block up or down, until the buzzer stops. It's easier than adjusting a lock-out die (where you may have to swap the foot from small case to large case, then by trial and error adjust the length of the stem, because you can't adjust it while it's sitting inside a case), and just about as easy as adjusting a powder check or powder cop. It's a little more problematic to make it work on a LnL, but can be done - I believe there is even a kit that allows it's use without having to drill anything. As to why I use them... as I said, I usually use bullet feeders, so I don't have the ability to visually confirm the powder level. Second, I like the peace of mind to know, for sure, that the correct amount of powder made it into the case. While true you can't double-charge a rifle case (usually)... you can still over-charge them, and you can certainly under-charge. The powder check guards against that. Along the "peace of mind" lines, because there's so much happening at once on a progressive, anything I can do to reduce the operator workload is a good thing. With the powder check backing me up, it's one less thing I have to worry about. Here's a perfect example, that just happened to me today. I'm loading up .223 on a Dillon 1050. My powder measure is still fairly new, and I'm using Varget (a somewhat long stick powder). I had an unlikely occurrence, but it happened none-the-less: the powder bridged half-way through the drop. My one case would up with about 15 grains of powder. The remaining 10 grains was stuck in the powder funnel. The next case got 35 grains (10 that was stuck in the funnel, plus the normal 25 grains thrown by the powder measure). Of course, this resulted in about 8 grains of powder spilling all over. Since this all happens at the back of the press, it wasn't immediately noticeable to me... but it was to the powder check. It told me the first case was under-charged, which made me investigate, saw the spilled powder, saw the next case in line with powder stacked up to the case mouth. Would I have figured it out without the powder check? Most likely. But, when dealing with the inherent dangers of reloading, I'm not a big fan of "most likely". Here's my take on all three powder-check systems: Dillon Pros: Works with all cases, rifle and pistol. Audible warning. Easiest to adjust. Cons: Designed for Dillon presses only. Minor work to adapt to RCBS. More difficult to use on LnL RCBS Lockout Die Pros: Can't be ignored - locks up the press when there's a problem. Best choice for LnL press, and can be used in others. Cons: Only works wtih pistol cases. Slightly less sensitive to changing powder levels than the Dillon. RCBS Powder Check/Hornady Powder Cop die Pros: Simplest system. Works on all presses with all cases. Cons: Only provides a visual indication of powder level. Good if you don't have the ability to look into a case - otherwise, same thing as visually inspecting cases for powder |
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Only on pistol cases as it is impossible to double charge a rifle round. I also look into each pistol case before putting a bullet. I use the Hornady powder cop die. I use the Dillon version , only on rifle cases which i cannot see into like a pistol case. Pistol case i visually inspect before putting a bullet on top Rifle 1) it is common sense that with two charges it will overfill 2) what if it doesnt drop the intended charge? off a few grains or nothing at all ...... thats why i check |
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I use the Hornady Powder Cop for .223, 10mm, .40, which is all I load on my L-N-L AP.
Been using it for about 13 years, wont go without it. Stations: 1 powder drop 2 Powder cop 3 Bullet feeder 4 Seater 5 crimp/close bell Since buying a RCBS Uni Hand Primer I decap, size, and bell mouth in one op, then hand prime, then load at another time Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
| I use one on my 650. It was the primary reason I went from a 550 to a 650. My eyeballing is not 100% reliable, the powder check die is. The powder check die is right in front of me when I load so I can check it visually. I can detect a .2 grain variation on my .45 ACP loads. |
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I use the Hornady Powder Cop for .223, 10mm, .40, which is all I load on my L-N-L AP. Been using it for about 13 years, wont go without it. Stations: 1 powder drop 2 Powder cop 3 Bullet feeder 4 Seater 5 crimp/close bell Since buying a RCBS Uni Hand Primer I decap, size, and bell mouth in one op, then hand prime, then load at another time Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This is interesting to me because i was looking at the hornady LN-L and was wondering if the case feeder gets in the way of the powder drop in station 1? |
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Quoted:
I use the Dillon version , only on rifle cases which i cannot see into like a pistol case. Pistol case i visually inspect before putting a bullet on top Rifle 1) it is common sense that with two charges it will overfill 2) what if it doesnt drop the intended charge? off a few grains or nothing at all ...... thats why i check Quoted:
Quoted:
Only on pistol cases as it is impossible to double charge a rifle round. I also look into each pistol case before putting a bullet. I use the Hornady powder cop die. I use the Dillon version , only on rifle cases which i cannot see into like a pistol case. Pistol case i visually inspect before putting a bullet on top Rifle 1) it is common sense that with two charges it will overfill 2) what if it doesnt drop the intended charge? off a few grains or nothing at all ...... thats why i check I still eyeball rifle. |
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I use a Dillon Powder Check Die on all my pistol loading on the 650. I like it so much that I have one for each die plate. I trust them. I watch the plunger as I load. I think it makes the process more consistent and safer. YMMV, I suppose.
p.s. I wouldn't bother to use one for rifle loads. |
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Perhaps I'll get arguements from others here, but in reality for most cartriges and loads, double charges are not the primary concern, its short drops or missed drops. Most double charges will over flow the brass. If a hot round does slip by, it is hard on the firearm and shooter, but not nearly so much so as a follow up shot after a squib.
There is enough charge in the primer alone to get the bullet into the barrel and on some autos actually cycle the slide. its too easy to be bangin away at a target and pull that follow up after a squib before it even registers that there may be a problem. Those pictures we've all seen of blown apart guns are more often than not follow ups on squibs rather than straight up over charges. |
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