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Posted: 11/12/2013 10:12:47 PM EDT
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Hey,
I understand that I can buy new materials and generate a hand loaded cartridge that is superior to a factory cartridge. I am wondering if a reloaded cartridge can be up to that level of quality, or surpass it. Is there any appreciable difference between a hand loaded cartridge using new brass V.S. one that uses once fired (or greater) brass? I have read arguments on both sides and would like to hear your experiences on the subject. Thanks! |
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From a non-scientific POV, I can surely say of myself and friends you can feel the difference between reloads and factory.
Reloads can be tuned to specific weapons and can be retuned as that weapon breaks in or you change parts. Reloads (done properly with care) give ultra consistent, repeatable results. No variance in powder charge, equal OAL and crimp mean everytime you pull the trigger you get the same noise, flash, recoil. I have been reloading before I can remember (on dads lap) and plan to continue the tradition with my kids. To me it's not just about hyper accuracy or velocity it's about the freedom to explore a sport you enjoy and really learn some respect for your weapons. Totally worth it. |
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Quoted:
Hey, I understand that I can buy new materials and generate a hand loaded cartridge that is superior to a factory cartridge. I am wondering if a reloaded cartridge can be up to that level of quality, or surpass it. Is there any appreciable difference between a hand loaded cartridge using new brass V.S. one that uses once fired (or greater) brass? I have read arguments on both sides and would like to hear your experiences on the subject. Thanks! idk if this will answer you but sometimes you need to take virgin brass "fireform" inorder to reload 35 whelen from .30-06 |
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Reloaded ammunition is slapped together from a recipe with little care or understanding of the nuances. Reloaders are happy if the ammunition goes "bang" and a bullet exits the barrel.
Handloaders approach the task with a different attitude, as craftsmen. The difference has little or nothing to do with the age or provenance of the components. |
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Quoted:
Reloaded ammunition is slapped together from a recipe with little care or understanding of the nuances. Reloaders are happy if the ammunition goes "bang" and a bullet exits the barrel. Handloaders approach the task with a different attitude, as craftsmen. The difference has little or nothing to do with the age or provenance of the components. This, in my opinion. I've been doing it 18 months and just now feel comfortable calling myself a handloader, not a reloader. I was dilligent but just didn't know much when I started. I cranked out a lot of junk ammo the first 2 or 3 months. |
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Quoted:
Reloaded ammunition is slapped together from a recipe with little care or understanding of the nuances. Reloaders are happy if the ammunition goes "bang" and a bullet exits the barrel. Handloaders approach the task with a different attitude, as craftsmen. The difference has little or nothing to do with the age or provenance of the components. I really like this. Exactly what I was trying to get to. I love giving individual attention to each round to make sure it is exactly as I designed. |
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Quoted:
Reloaded ammunition is slapped together from a recipe with little care or understanding of the nuances. Reloaders are happy if the ammunition goes "bang" and a bullet exits the barrel. Handloaders approach the task with a different attitude, as craftsmen. The difference has little or nothing to do with the age or provenance of the components. Is it safe to assume you are stating that "reloaded" ammo as you state, is assembled using a progressive machine, where "hand loaded" ammunition is done one at a time on a single stage press? |
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Is it safe to assume you are stating that "reloaded" ammo as you state, is assembled using a progressive machine, where "hand loaded" ammunition is done one at a time on a single stage press? Quoted:
Quoted:
Reloaded ammunition is slapped together from a recipe with little care or understanding of the nuances. Reloaders are happy if the ammunition goes "bang" and a bullet exits the barrel. Handloaders approach the task with a different attitude, as craftsmen. The difference has little or nothing to do with the age or provenance of the components. Is it safe to assume you are stating that "reloaded" ammo as you state, is assembled using a progressive machine, where "hand loaded" ammunition is done one at a time on a single stage press? I wouldn't assume that as blanket coverage as I think there are both kinds on each press |
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I wouldn't assume that as blanket coverage as I think there are both kinds on each press Quoted:
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Reloaded ammunition is slapped together from a recipe with little care or understanding of the nuances. Reloaders are happy if the ammunition goes "bang" and a bullet exits the barrel. Handloaders approach the task with a different attitude, as craftsmen. The difference has little or nothing to do with the age or provenance of the components. Is it safe to assume you are stating that "reloaded" ammo as you state, is assembled using a progressive machine, where "hand loaded" ammunition is done one at a time on a single stage press? I wouldn't assume that as blanket coverage as I think there are both kinds on each press I guess I am just trying to figure out what he meant exactly, that's all. |
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I guess I am just trying to figure out what he meant exactly, that's all. Quoted:
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Reloaded ammunition is slapped together from a recipe with little care or understanding of the nuances. Reloaders are happy if the ammunition goes "bang" and a bullet exits the barrel. Handloaders approach the task with a different attitude, as craftsmen. The difference has little or nothing to do with the age or provenance of the components. Is it safe to assume you are stating that "reloaded" ammo as you state, is assembled using a progressive machine, where "hand loaded" ammunition is done one at a time on a single stage press? I wouldn't assume that as blanket coverage as I think there are both kinds on each press I guess I am just trying to figure out what he meant exactly, that's all. my self I'd say my.223 would fall into the reloader class but for my 6x45 i'd say handloads even tho they both came off a 1050, the 6x45 cases get more prep work and are all sorted by h/s |
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I think he basically meant you can crank out your own ammo that would be comprable to commercial ammo, but cheaper: Reloader
OR you can fine tune your loads, be super careful about charge weights/trim/seaing depth etc. etc. and make a real high quality ammo that is superior to what you can buy commercially: Handloader. |
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I think it is more in your prep, attention to detail and load development/research.
I know guys that do what I would consider "handloading" on a 1050, 650 or 550. I also know guys that "reload" on a single stage press. You can make junk rounds on any press, and you can make precision ammo on any press (well most, I would argue a few presses in stock form won't make really high end ammo). Edit - Beat by one post. |
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I am a reloader, I don't do a ladder to determine the most accurate round for my gun nor do I do all the steps some precision shooters do on my brass:
that said I don't "slap" my ammo together: this implies a carelessness and therefore less safe approach. This is not true. Back to the OP: I have used both new and used brass. As other have said, there is no real difference, if you treat your new brass with care (I re-size new brass, measure, trim if needed, etc). Maybe those who shoot for long range precision rifle can see a difference, but for the vast majority of other shooters, I don't think it matters. |
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Quoted:
Is it safe to assume you are stating that "reloaded" ammo as you state, is assembled using a progressive machine, where "hand loaded" ammunition is done one at a time on a single stage press? Quoted:
Quoted:
Reloaded ammunition is slapped together from a recipe with little care or understanding of the nuances. Reloaders are happy if the ammunition goes "bang" and a bullet exits the barrel. Handloaders approach the task with a different attitude, as craftsmen. The difference has little or nothing to do with the age or provenance of the components. Is it safe to assume you are stating that "reloaded" ammo as you state, is assembled using a progressive machine, where "hand loaded" ammunition is done one at a time on a single stage press? Nope, not at all. A "reloader" is the guy that wants a recipe for a load and just barely has an inkling about how to assemble a cartridge. These are the same guys that load the maximum charge weight from a manual, assuming that "it has to be okay or it wouldn't be published". They're the same guys that have never looked at a ballistics table, let alone tried to understand the difference caused by 100 fps at the muzzle. They have no idea about troubleshooting a problem that arose with their reloads, such as the common problem caused by case stretching during expander ball withdrawal. After all, the die was set up according to the directions in the die box, maybe, so it should work. Right? Some of them never progress past that level of skill and understanding, and I guess if they're happy, then I'm happy as long as they don't infect new persons starting out as reloaders on a path to become handloaders. There's a continuum of interest, knowledge, and skill between the extremes, too. I have to say this about recipes. I would love to have a complete and comprehensive list of the rock solid loads that have proven to work through the decades. That is not the same thing. |
| For me on say my 300 blackout i make sure that every case is within rediculous levels of tolerence. I then carefully lubricate the inside of the case neck and the body of the case before sizing. Then each case gets inspected and remeasured trimmed again if stretched and then placed in my Wilson gage to be between both tables. Then the rounds are tumbled in batches of 50 matched headstamp. After that they are each filled with individually measured loads and weighed to insure consistent total weight. After that as I seat my bullets each round is measured for consistent overall length and then weighed again. These are then crimped and then tumbled in batches of 25 based on total weight. These are my handloads for hunting. My reloads for plinking receive about a third of the attention. |
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Nope, not at all. A "reloader" is the guy that wants a recipe for a load and just barely has an inkling about how to assemble a cartridge. These are the same guys that load the maximum charge weight from a manual, assuming that "it has to be okay or it wouldn't be published". They're the same guys that have never looked at a ballistics table, let alone tried to understand the difference caused by 100 fps at the muzzle. They have no idea about troubleshooting a problem that arose with their reloads, such as the common problem caused by case stretching during expander ball withdrawal. After all, the die was set up according to the directions in the die box, maybe, so it should work. Right? Some of them never progress past that level of skill and understanding, and I guess if they're happy, then I'm happy as long as they don't infect new persons starting out as reloaders on a path to become handloaders. There's a continuum of interest, knowledge, and skill between the extremes, too. I have to say this about recipes. I would love to have a complete and comprehensive list of the rock solid loads that have proven to work through the decades. That is not the same thing. Quoted:
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Reloaded ammunition is slapped together from a recipe with little care or understanding of the nuances. Reloaders are happy if the ammunition goes "bang" and a bullet exits the barrel. Handloaders approach the task with a different attitude, as craftsmen. The difference has little or nothing to do with the age or provenance of the components. Is it safe to assume you are stating that "reloaded" ammo as you state, is assembled using a progressive machine, where "hand loaded" ammunition is done one at a time on a single stage press? Nope, not at all. A "reloader" is the guy that wants a recipe for a load and just barely has an inkling about how to assemble a cartridge. These are the same guys that load the maximum charge weight from a manual, assuming that "it has to be okay or it wouldn't be published". They're the same guys that have never looked at a ballistics table, let alone tried to understand the difference caused by 100 fps at the muzzle. They have no idea about troubleshooting a problem that arose with their reloads, such as the common problem caused by case stretching during expander ball withdrawal. After all, the die was set up according to the directions in the die box, maybe, so it should work. Right? Some of them never progress past that level of skill and understanding, and I guess if they're happy, then I'm happy as long as they don't infect new persons starting out as reloaders on a path to become handloaders. There's a continuum of interest, knowledge, and skill between the extremes, too. I have to say this about recipes. I would love to have a complete and comprehensive list of the rock solid loads that have proven to work through the decades. That is not the same thing. Now I better understand. I thought you might have been leaning that direction, but I left it for you to say. I agree, by the way. 
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What kind of shooting do you do that you are concerned about the accuracy difference between new and reused brass?
My experience tells me I cannot see any practical difference between virgin and reused brass. The context of that comment is shooting 1/4 to 1/2 MOA groups at 200 yards. From what I've read about benchrest shooting (the ultimate in accuracy), they PREFER fire-formed brass. |
| Very very interesting responses from everybody. Thank you. I am learning a lot on here. I plan to start picking up reloading equipment in a few months and am trying to learn and understand as much as I can. In the meantime, I have a range membership and am getting a nice collection of once fired brass ready to be reloaded. Thanks again! |
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Nope, not at all. A "reloader" is the guy that wants a recipe for a load and just barely has an inkling about how to assemble a cartridge. These are the same guys that load the maximum charge weight from a manual, assuming that "it has to be okay or it wouldn't be published". They're the same guys that have never looked at a ballistics table, let alone tried to understand the difference caused by 100 fps at the muzzle. They have no idea about troubleshooting a problem that arose with their reloads, such as the common problem caused by case stretching during expander ball withdrawal. After all, the die was set up according to the directions in the die box, maybe, so it should work. Right? Some of them never progress past that level of skill and understanding, and I guess if they're happy, then I'm happy as long as they don't infect new persons starting out as reloaders on a path to become handloaders. There's a continuum of interest, knowledge, and skill between the extremes, too. I have to say this about recipes. I would love to have a complete and comprehensive list of the rock solid loads that have proven to work through the decades. That is not the same thing. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Reloaded ammunition is slapped together from a recipe with little care or understanding of the nuances. Reloaders are happy if the ammunition goes "bang" and a bullet exits the barrel. Handloaders approach the task with a different attitude, as craftsmen. The difference has little or nothing to do with the age or provenance of the components. Is it safe to assume you are stating that "reloaded" ammo as you state, is assembled using a progressive machine, where "hand loaded" ammunition is done one at a time on a single stage press? Nope, not at all. A "reloader" is the guy that wants a recipe for a load and just barely has an inkling about how to assemble a cartridge. These are the same guys that load the maximum charge weight from a manual, assuming that "it has to be okay or it wouldn't be published". They're the same guys that have never looked at a ballistics table, let alone tried to understand the difference caused by 100 fps at the muzzle. They have no idea about troubleshooting a problem that arose with their reloads, such as the common problem caused by case stretching during expander ball withdrawal. After all, the die was set up according to the directions in the die box, maybe, so it should work. Right? Some of them never progress past that level of skill and understanding, and I guess if they're happy, then I'm happy as long as they don't infect new persons starting out as reloaders on a path to become handloaders. There's a continuum of interest, knowledge, and skill between the extremes, too. I have to say this about recipes. I would love to have a complete and comprehensive list of the rock solid loads that have proven to work through the decades. That is not the same thing. No <GD commentary removed. Please keep opinions stated in a polite and businesslike manner, as this is a technical forum. --tbk1> The terms are interchangeable. |
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No. The terms are interchangeable. Quoted:
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Reloaded ammunition is slapped together from a recipe with little care or understanding of the nuances. Reloaders are happy if the ammunition goes "bang" and a bullet exits the barrel. Handloaders approach the task with a different attitude, as craftsmen. The difference has little or nothing to do with the age or provenance of the components. Is it safe to assume you are stating that "reloaded" ammo as you state, is assembled using a progressive machine, where "hand loaded" ammunition is done one at a time on a single stage press? Nope, not at all. A "reloader" is the guy that wants a recipe for a load and just barely has an inkling about how to assemble a cartridge. These are the same guys that load the maximum charge weight from a manual, assuming that "it has to be okay or it wouldn't be published". They're the same guys that have never looked at a ballistics table, let alone tried to understand the difference caused by 100 fps at the muzzle. They have no idea about troubleshooting a problem that arose with their reloads, such as the common problem caused by case stretching during expander ball withdrawal. After all, the die was set up according to the directions in the die box, maybe, so it should work. Right? Some of them never progress past that level of skill and understanding, and I guess if they're happy, then I'm happy as long as they don't infect new persons starting out as reloaders on a path to become handloaders. There's a continuum of interest, knowledge, and skill between the extremes, too. I have to say this about recipes. I would love to have a complete and comprehensive list of the rock solid loads that have proven to work through the decades. That is not the same thing. No. The terms are interchangeable. Ok, is there a difference between, remanufactured and reloaded, or hand loaded? |
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Very very interesting responses from everybody. Thank you. I am learning a lot on here. I plan to start picking up reloading equipment in a few months and am trying to learn and understand as much as I can. In the meantime, I have a range membership and am getting a nice collection of once fired brass ready to be reloaded. Thanks again! You would be very wise to invest the time in reading all of the resource threads at the top of this forum. They have been expertly compiled over years and contain a wealth of valuable information. Good luck on your journey--the members and moderators of this forum will be able to help you at every step. 
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