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Posted: 8/24/2013 12:17:56 PM EDT
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I would like to reload 223 and 5.56x45 ammo for my AR15. At a later date I will also reload 45acp and 380 auto.
This ammo would be for casual target and some for longer range Varmint use. What brand have you had the best results with and have been accurate and dependable over many years, without going to the Mitutoyo price range ? |
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Quoted: I would like to reload 223 and 5.56x45 ammo for my AR15. At a later date I will also reload 45acp and 380 auto. This ammo would be for casual target and some for longer range Varmint use. What brand have you had the best results with and have been accurate and dependable over many years, without going to the Mitutoyo price range ? (Machinist for about a decade) |
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Quoted: Quoted: I would like to reload 223 and 5.56x45 ammo for my AR15. At a later date I will also reload 45acp and 380 auto. This ammo would be for casual target and some for longer range Varmint use. What brand have you had the best results with and have been accurate and dependable over many years, without going to the Mitutoyo price range ? (Machinist for about a decade) Agreed! http://www.transcat.com/Catalog/productdetail.aspx?itemnum=505-675&utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&gclid=CNDJi7bylrkCFe1AMgodS3YADQ ------ I'm moving this thread to reloading because it keeps getting reported...  |
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The only reason people who reload say that China junk is acceptable is because they aren't doing anything to that high level of precision. You can have +/-.005" in your case length, or loaded OAL and not screw something up.
I've been a machinist since 2003. I still have a cheap pair of calipers I bought back in the day for $15. It has about .0015" variation per inch of extension because of flex. I've adjusted the rail a few times, but it's not worth being anything other than bang up calipers. I also have a pair of Starrett 9" dial caipers, as well as 8" and 12" Mitutoyo dials. I use the 9" Starrett calipers for reloading. The ID ears are too chewed up for work use, but they are awesome for reloading purposes. |
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Quoted: I would like to reload 223 and 5.56x45 ammo for my AR15. At a later date I will also reload 45acp and 380 auto. This ammo would be for casual target and some for longer range Varmint use. What brand have you had the best results with and have been accurate and dependable over many years, without going to the Mitutoyo price range ? Visit your neighborhood pawn shop and see what they have. I scored a $200 Mitutoyo 6" solar powered caliper for $54 last week. Granted, the first was stuck on MM, the second had dead batteries, but the third worked like a top. |
| I bought a Cen - Tech digital caliper For $40 at Sears if I remember right. I had my brother check them for me. He has been a machinist for 28 years now. He checked them with the standards that came with his Starrett mics. According to him they are dead on all the way to six inches. Good enough for me. He says that most people squeeze mics or calipers to tight and do not get a proper reading on them because of it. |
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Quoted: Visit your neighborhood pawn shop and see what they have. That's excellent advise, and it's worked very well for me in the past (along with estate sales, auctions, etc).  Here's a good comparison chart done by a very old, experienced, and well-respected repair company: http://longislandindicator.com/p11.html If you're a hard-core Starrett fan (like me!), you may not like everything you read. Then again, Starrett 8" vernier calipers true origins haven't been a "secret" for years. |
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Quoted: Go with Starrett. I would also go dial. For some reason I haven't not had good luck with many sets of digital ones. We're only allowed to use dial calipers at my shop. The owner almost has a (2nd) heart attack every time someone shows up with digital calipers (or mics).  |
| I ordered a mitutoyo dial from MSCdirect a couple months back, freight was reasonable and I had them in my hands in 2 days. They very are nice. A little overkill for reloading. Starrett are also nice - but the Starretts at the price point of the Mits are made in China (1200 series), the good US made Starretts are much more expensive (120 series I think) |
| I've used my dial calipers for the last 11-12 years and they were adequate (sold by a benchrest/varmint guy.... but actually of Chinese make). Anyway, a few months ago, my brother gave me an inexpensive Harbor Freight Digital (Chinese) which seems to do just fine. I've used them for measuring case OAL, Stoney Point (now Hornady) type measurements etc and they are just fine... the reason being is that ± 0.001 inch is near the limit of accuracy that you can get with such measurements...especially if you do not 'true' the case base (casehead). |
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Harbor Freight digital... some models are typically on sale for approx. $10.00. All metal with extra set of batteries. Fine for reloading. I will advocate against this, having owned this set for a few years now, and also owning and using several other brands such as Starrett, Mitutoyo, SPI, Fowler, Brown and Sharpe, and other no name Chinese knockoffs. The Pros of the HF calipers are that they are cheap and "good enough" for the level of precision you need for reloading. Unfortunately, the list of cons include extremely short battery life, sketchy at best encoder, flimsy - reading will vary with hand pressure, not repeatable, return to zero is never 0.0000, its always off by something. The biggest frustration is that every time I went to use them, the battery is dead or near dead. A lot of people recommend leaving the battery out while not in use. That is also a hassle and frustrating if you use them often. They do have an auto shut off, but they also auto turn on like other digital calipers and will do so even sitting in the case, killing your battery. If you are cheap, SPI and Fowler both make decent dial calipers for about 30 bucks and will work. If you like tools and experience great joy when using "the right tool for the job." Then Mitutoyos are what I recommend, Starretts affordable line of dials are made in China, the ones made in US will cost twice as much as Mitutoyo and sadly will not be twice as good. I can only speculate where their digital calipers are made, I've used them but the sticker of origin had already been removed. They were not as nice as the Mitutoyos, regardless. I will copy what I posted in another thread about the calipers I use at work that I thoroughly enjoy: Digital Caliper They are IP67 shielded, meaning cleaning oils, gun powder, brass shavings, etc all will never damage your caliper. You could actually fully submerge these and they will still work. All those things listed (brass shavings, powder, etc) can get into the teeth of dial calipers and cause them to jump a tooth. The Mits are slick as glass in operation and always return to zero no matter how fast or slow I close them (mine are the 8" version), the HF calipers I had for home use would rarely return to zero perfectly. The battery on the Mits will last for years...literally, with daily use. I am not Starrett bashing, I use a lot of their tools and think most of them are superb but Mitutoyo simply does calipers and mics better. Some will disagree. Credentials: Mechanical Engineer, Tool maker |
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I'm going to say that just about any stainless DIAL calipers will be sufficient for reloading. We're measuring thousandths not tenths.
Plastic/phenolic are flexy and the faces wear. I HATE digital calipers. They are SLOW. Always waiting for them to turn on, and if you set them down for a minute they turn off. Start over with frustration. If you need more accurate than a thousandth, you need a micrometer, and then I still prefer a vernier mike. |
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Quoted:
I'm going to say that just about any stainless DIAL calipers will be sufficient for reloading. We're measuring thousandths not tenths. Plastic/phenolic are flexy and the faces wear. I HATE digital calipers. They are SLOW. Always waiting for them to turn on, and if you set them down for a minute they turn off. Start over with frustration. If you need more accurate than a thousandth, you need a micrometer, and then I still prefer a vernier mike. Do not experience this problem with my Mitutoyo digital calipers...have had slivers of metal get in my dial calipers and cause them to jump teeth though. I hear the old digital calipers several years ago were slow though. |
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Do not experience this problem with my Mitutoyo digital calipers...have had slivers of metal get in my dial calipers and cause them to jump teeth though. I hear the old digital calipers several years ago were slow though. Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going to say that just about any stainless DIAL calipers will be sufficient for reloading. We're measuring thousandths not tenths. Plastic/phenolic are flexy and the faces wear. I HATE digital calipers. They are SLOW. Always waiting for them to turn on, and if you set them down for a minute they turn off. Start over with frustration. If you need more accurate than a thousandth, you need a micrometer, and then I still prefer a vernier mike. Do not experience this problem with my Mitutoyo digital calipers...have had slivers of metal get in my dial calipers and cause them to jump teeth though. I hear the old digital calipers several years ago were slow though. The machine repair men that I advise at work say the same thing about chips. Not an issue for reloading. I have a one year old Mitutoyo digital at work that I loath. |
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gageshop.com sells standard chinese dial calipers that are as good as any chinese calipers out there for less. You will probably have to buy two sets to meet their minimum purchase requirements. I will not buy digital chinese calipers because their service life is so spotty.
If all you do is reload, then chinese dial calipers will serve you well. You could buy a half dozen in your lifetime and be money ahead. I have a Lyman branded set that has worked for 20+ years. Do not buy any plastic calipers, they will not last. Buy stainless steel only. |
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I have two cheapies. They are 20 years old and show no signs of falling apart or becoming inaccurate, despite several drops onto a concrete floor.
I bought a Brown & Sharpe dial caliper. It sits in its box, largely unused. I could have purchased over half a dozen Chinese made dial calipers for its price. I'm almost afraid to use it because I am afraid to drop it. One thing I dislike about the B&S - it does not have a roller wheel to slide the jaw. It's funny how important that is and you don't know it until it isn't there. This is another reason I don't use it much. I do use it to check calibration on the other two. |
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unfortunately Mitutoyo is on the lower end of the price scale of quality calipers. Below them is pretty much china junk. I say buy once cry once. Mits are good stuff. (Machinist for about a decade) Quoted:
Quoted:
I would like to reload 223 and 5.56x45 ammo for my AR15. At a later date I will also reload 45acp and 380 auto. This ammo would be for casual target and some for longer range Varmint use. What brand have you had the best results with and have been accurate and dependable over many years, without going to the Mitutoyo price range ? (Machinist for about a decade) Yup. (but you'll find that most guys in here use cheap measuring instruments). I use a 6" Starrett digital (I'm prolly one of the only guys in here who has one). I'd like to pick up a 6" Starrett dial because I'd like an instrument that isn't dependent on batteries.
That being said, I do like the way Mitutyos "handle"; especially the older ones. |
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Quoted:
I have two cheapies. They are 20 years old and show no signs of falling apart or becoming inaccurate, despite several drops onto a concrete floor. I bought a Brown & Sharpe dial caliper. It sits in its box, largely unused. I could have purchased over half a dozen Chinese made dial calipers for its price. I'm almost afraid to use it because I am afraid to drop it. One thing I dislike about the B&S - it does not have a roller wheel to slide the jaw. It's funny how important that is and you don't know it until it isn't there. This is another reason I don't use it much. I do use it to check calibration on the other two. ^ This, just about the same here. One of mine finally jumped a tooth from some crud but, I re-calibrated it, works OK. I have put mine through hell and they work fine and accurate. Being Chinese, the SS is softer, so the points will round off if you use them for layout work or if dropped correctly . My good stuff stays in my toolmakers box and seldom used anymore. I have Digital but I always grab the Dials.
You'll be fine with the Chinese. 'That was hard for me to say' |
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I've been using the chinese ss all metal dial and a Harbor Freight digital (chinese also) for all my reloading with no problems. This thread made me (after all these yrs)
go check them both on a set of Mitutoyo standards. Both checked fine. But I did find that they both will flex with excessive pressure at the knife edge by 15 tenths for the dial and 5 tenths for the digital. Good enough for me and the hags I run with. 
The high dollar precision stuff is great when you need them, but I wouldn't go buy any for just reloading when usually within 10-15 tenths is good enough for most tasks unless you're running tight neck chambers. Jmho. |
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Digital/dial is a personal preference. I have Mitutoyo and Pittsburg(HF) calipers. Yes, the Mitutoyo is a higher qualily. But the Chinese Pittsburg also has a SS frame. Zeroing is simple and results are accurate. The batteries are not a problem. Like anything else, its your money. |
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