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Posted: 8/19/2013 12:16:57 PM EDT
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New to reloading.....
.... I stumbled upon a jar of Varget. Having seen more than a few positive comments about it, I wanted to give it a try, my first "stick" powder. I've used H335 and CFE223 with excellent results. I tried to run it through my Hornady LNL powder dispenser and ended up pouring it back into the jar, moving the handle I felt I was "chopping" into the "sticks". I then tried to load a few cartridges by hand, and with a 27 grain charge saw that the powder was near, if not above, where the neck meets the shoulder and decided not to. I was worried that seating the bullet would have "compressed" the powder. Is this a legit concern? |
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You were "chopping" the sticks, not very many, just a few.
Compressed loads are OK with Varget. You will hear it crunch when you seat. A few will break and shear and settle into a more compact stable arrangement with the force of the seater. I will pass along an AeroE caveat here. Too much compression and you can have a "springiness" that can gradually push the bullet back out through the neck unless there is a firm neck to bullet crimp. |
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Quoted:
From what I have seen it would take a drop tube to even get the normal max load of Varget (.223 Rem-55gr bullet) into a case. As much of a waste I think Varget is for .223 I've dropped 26.5 and got a 55 grain bullet in with no compression. 
This was more just to TRY Varget for comparison. |
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Thanks for the replies....
....I was going to load Hornady 60g V-Max bullets. I have an Adams Arms 16" Carbine upper that I found has the best groupings with H335 and CFE223 at the upper end of the scale. I wanted to try my Hornady 75g BTHP at 25gr, but stopped because I just didn't feel there was room to seat the bullet properly without compressing the charge. Just realized I never mentioned that it was .223....... Mike |
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Quoted:
As much of a waste I think Varget is for .223 I've dropped 26.5 and got a 55 grain bullet in with no compression.
This was more just to TRY Varget for comparison. Quoted:
Quoted:
From what I have seen it would take a drop tube to even get the normal max load of Varget (.223 Rem-55gr bullet) into a case. As much of a waste I think Varget is for .223 I've dropped 26.5 and got a 55 grain bullet in with no compression.
This was more just to TRY Varget for comparison. It depends on the bullet. Hodgdon load data shows 3 different 55gr bullets with Varget. The max load for each range from 24 to 27.5gr and all 3 have the letter "C" next to them noting that they are compressed loads. The load I was referring to in my post is 27.5gr Varget with a Hornady 55gr BTSP or BT FMJ. The last time I tried to put 27.5gr of Varget into a .223 case with my pan/funnel it spilled over. With a little tapping I was able to get it flush with the case mouth. I think this is too much compression. But with a drop tube I'm sure its possible. |
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In the #9 manual, Hornady doesn't list the 60gr VMax under their .223 service rifle section, but under regular old .223, they list 24.9 gr of varget as a max load.
While I tend to agree that Hornady's load data is considered to be on the anemic side by some, I hope you are not just starting at 27.0 grains with that bullet because someone on the net said it was GTG. If you don't mind my asking, how are you choosing your loads? |
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Quoted:
Thanks for the replies.... ....I was going to load Hornady 60g V-Max bullets. I have an Adams Arms 16" Carbine upper that I found has the best groupings with H335 and CFE223 at the upper end of the scale. I wanted to try my Hornady 75g BTHP at 25gr, but stopped because I just didn't feel there was room to seat the bullet properly without compressing the charge. Just realized I never mentioned that it was .223....... Mike I load 75 gr BTHP with varget. First, i use my lee perfect measure with varget. So far I have loaded 23, 23.5 and 24 gr best load so far has been the 23.5gr. Shooting an 18" ss 1:7 FN barrel.... My spr replica. |
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Quoted:
In the #9 manual, Hornady doesn't list the 60gr VMax under their .223 service rifle section, but under regular old .223, they list 24.9 gr of varget as a max load. While I tend to agree that Hornady's load data is considered to be on the anemic side by some, I hope you are not just starting at 27.0 grains with that bullet because someone on the net said it was GTG. If you don't mind my asking, how are you choosing your loads? hodgdon.com gives 27 gr as max for 60 gr vmax Personally I had really bad luck with 60 gr partitions and VARGET |
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Quoted:
It depends on the bullet. Hodgdon load data shows 3 different 55gr bullets with Varget. The max load for each range from 24 to 27.5gr and all 3 have the letter "C" next to them noting that they are compressed loads. Yep... My point was that I've dropped loads that show as "C", but didn't compress for me. Having to Drop charges for .223, unless for limited match production, just strikes me as a total waste of time.
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While back I was OCD about minimizing powder inventory in my closet / powder locker. I worked up my "almost" M193 load using Varget. I took it up to 27.5 gr C but backed off to 27.0 gr C. Varget is not optimum for this bullet considering the current range of available powders, but not too shabby either.
Data: 27.0 gr C Varget, 55 gr Hornady FMJBT w/c, LC'02 & LC'03 cases CCI#41 primer, FL SB RCBS sizer, Trim to 1.760Max (1.755), Separate Seat & Roll Crimp, Seat to 2.222 COAL., 3156.2 MV avg, 13.65 Sd, 39 ES (20" bbl). I used beam scale, dipper, and finished off with trickler. Now I use the computerized powered trickler/scale combo (ChargeMaster). |
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Quoted:
You're killing me, CCW. All that effort into a dismal performer like 55 gr FMJ? 
It's easily outdone in accuracy and lethality with a good bullet on a progressive with a short cut, small kernel extruded. Hey, I said "While back". So, you come along 8 years later and tell me to use stuff that did not exist back then? OK, OK! 
I am rigging an XL650 now to run with the new stuff if we can find enough (CFE223 & XBR8208), Nosler 77 gr with real cannelure, etc. 
I keep this photo around to remind me what a FMJBT w/c M193 can do flying fast enough. 
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Quoted:
I load 75 gr BTHP with varget. First, i use my lee perfect measure with varget. So far I have loaded 23, 23.5 and 24 gr best load so far has been the 23.5gr. Shooting an 18" ss 1:7 FN barrel.... My spr replica. Quoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for the replies.... ....I was going to load Hornady 60g V-Max bullets. I have an Adams Arms 16" Carbine upper that I found has the best groupings with H335 and CFE223 at the upper end of the scale. I wanted to try my Hornady 75g BTHP at 25gr, but stopped because I just didn't feel there was room to seat the bullet properly without compressing the charge. Just realized I never mentioned that it was .223....... Mike I load 75 gr BTHP with varget. First, i use my lee perfect measure with varget. So far I have loaded 23, 23.5 and 24 gr best load so far has been the 23.5gr. Shooting an 18" ss 1:7 FN barrel.... My spr replica. My Varget load is 23.5 for 75 gr. Horn. and 77 gr smk and nosler, can make them go faster but don't get the 3/4 moa. eta..18 in ,1-8 twist. |
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Personally, I don't use Varget. I have tried it and have loads in my card file that uses it but I have found good flowing ball powders for my bulk stuff like WC-844 which I use in .223, .308, and 7.5x54 Mas all auto loaders by the way.
Varget was not as good as IMR-4198 for my 50gr V-Max load and Reloder-15 is providing nice little groups with my 65s and 69s. I simply have no need for Varget. In my bolt action .308 its IMR-4064 for a few reasons one of which is the previously mentioned lack of capacity for Varget when using 150s. I know some believe Varget is the best thing since sliced bread but I get along fine without it. 
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I'm new to the "hobby" so I loaded my first 500 using the Hornady manual I got with my LNL Classic kit. Started with their lowest recommended charge and in 5 increments ended up on their max charge. Took my rounds out to the range and in my very inexperienced opinion, felt that the higher charges held the tightest groups. I loaded 55g thru 75g bullets with H335 and CFE223 powders. I then went to Hodgdon's load data app and saw that they use a "higher" charge as their max than Hornady does and loaded a bunch at their recommendation.
Keeping an eye on what the spent cartridges looked like and the tighter groups, it appears my rifle likes the "hotter" loads. I don't have any plans to turn anything up to 11. I'm almost out of my ball powder and found a jar of Varget at one of my local shops and there are more than a few members here who love the stuff. It's my first time with stick powder and I appreciate all of the comments. Not too sure how I will be moving forward with the powder, it may just sit in my locker for a while longer. |
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Your findings are quite normal. I have been working up loads for hunting rifles since day one back in 1985ish. It has been my experience that most rifles produce their best groups when making decent pressure. Before we had chronographs we had to read primers and watch for other pressure signs but best accuracy usually came up around book max.
If you want a REAL challenge try to find a nice low pressure,(like around start charge), low recoiling, yet sub MOA load for your favorite .308 or other high powered rifle. It's not easy. |
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