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Posted: 7/21/2012 6:20:42 PM EDT
I was resizing some LC .223 brass yesterday, and I tried the RCBS lube pad for the first time. I was using a lot of lube, and I'm thinking this may have caused what I saw on these cases. I have a total of 4 cases that have this ring on them, and 3 of them were sized with the RCBS lube when I was using the lube pad. After deciding the lube pad was not for me, I switched over to Hornady One Shot which I loved. The ring near the bottom of the case is not all the way around, and I can feel it with a fingernail. Will using too much lube cause this, or is something else giving me this issue? I sized a total of probably 125 cases last night. They were sized in a Lee classic cast single stage press, using the RCBS X Die, mounted in the Hornady LNL bushing kit. There are two pictures of the same case here. The second picture is with the case spun 180 degrees.
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| First make sure the ring you see is not a sign of case stretching and a possible separation on the next firing. Use the bent sharpened wire feeler method to feel inside the case for a depression or circular ring at the sight of the outside shiny ring. Also, a flashlight and looking inside the case you can see the circular depression. If you feel or see the depression, scrap the case. Could just be where the die stopped sizing the area just in front of the solid case head. If you aren't sure take some snips or a hacksaw and saw one of the cases apart to where you can see the inside case wall. Some cases appear to have a high area from manufacturing and your die will just polish a shiny spot in that area. |
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That's a semi normal sizing mark, looks like that was fired in a large chamber. Most of the time you won't see that mark.  Case separations look like this, notice the 223 case on the left normally split higher up on the case than your mark. Be sure that case chambers in your rifle before you finish loading it. |
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Quoted:
Looks like the case wasn't aligned with the die,, crud in the shell holder? I had thought of this being a possibility as well. These are my first cases sized with the Hornady LNL bushing kit. I had some concerns with the conversion bushing when I first installed it. When I tightened it down into my press, I noticed the front of the conversion bushing was touching the top machined portion of the press, but the back was up a little bit. Its definately not a huge gap, but it is a gap nonetheless. I questioned the alignment when I saw this. Im half tempted to take it out and go back to the standard bushing that came with the press, and just reset my dies each time I use them. |
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Quoted: Is this case going to be ok to fire? Hard to tell from your pic how much brass was taken off. That is the thickest part of the case for a reason. Has to be strong there. Run your fingernail over the gouge, can you feel it? Then scrap case. Be sure to check your shellholder, the grove that the case sits in. Be sure that grove is clean. Take something metal that is thin, wrap a rag around it and clean (slide it through) the grove of the shellholder.
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| I can indeed feel the ring with my fingernail, so to the trash they have gone. I cleaned out the groove on the shellholder, but it wasnt that bad. I did notice something weird with my shellholder though. When I put it into the ram, it doesnt want to sit flat. I can push it to sit flat, but it will spring back up on one side. Im not sure if the shellholder retaining clip is doing this or what, but none of my other shellholders do it. |
| New Hornady shell holder arrived today, and installed it in the ram of the press. Sits nice and flat. No rock to it at all. However, I believe I discovered the real issue with the die/ram alignment issue. When installing a die, and tightening it down, and with the shellholder in the ram, I bring the handle down until the shellholder touches the bottom of the die, the shell holder is slightly forward on the base of the die. I tried the same thing with a different die and different shellholder, and the same thing happens. I tried this in a different press I have, a Lee Challenger I bought back in 2003 or so, and the alignment is perfect. So, I am thinking the ram and the bore for the dies is not in-line. |
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Quoted:
I can indeed feel the ring with my fingernail, so to the trash they have gone. I cleaned out the groove on the shellholder, but it wasnt that bad. I did notice something weird with my shellholder though. When I put it into the ram, it doesnt want to sit flat. I can push it to sit flat, but it will spring back up on one side. Im not sure if the shellholder retaining clip is doing this or what, but none of my other shellholders do it. Trash? The horror. Put those in the scrap bucket. |
| A really interesting read related to your concern: http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/internal |
Lee classic cast single stage press is the problem? Great detective work.  Quoted:
New Hornady shell holder arrived today, and installed it in the ram of the press. Sits nice and flat. No rock to it at all. However, I believe I discovered the real issue with the die/ram alignment issue. When installing a die, and tightening it down, and with the shellholder in the ram, I bring the handle down until the shellholder touches the bottom of the die, the shell holder is slightly forward on the base of the die. I tried the same thing with a different die and different shellholder, and the same thing happens. I tried this in a different press I have, a Lee Challenger I bought back in 2003 or so, and the alignment is perfect. So, I am thinking the ram and the bore for the dies is not in-line . |
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Candt - I apologize if I offended, was clearly not my intent. I read that article a few nights earlier and when I saw your post thought it might be useful to you (or others) since it describes how brass thins/weakens in the area where you have a ring.
So far I'm a only pistol caliber reloader, my brass never sees the degree of stresses as a high pressure rifle. Truly sorry if this information is assumed known to all rifle reloaders or if its not relevant to your posted issue. NH |
| I've loaded thousands of rounds of once fired military brass and have seen this ring before on numerous cases. I seem to find one lot of brass I've bought not have any of the rings and some lots with several cases, maybe 20 or more in 1000 round lots. I've thoroughly inspected these cases by feel and by looking inside the case and even cutting several of them apart for a closer look. I believe these cases with a ring like in your example are a result of manufacturing with the forming and sizing dies leaving this ring. Your sizing die is just rubbing this high spot making them shiny. IF they do not exhibit any stretch marks inside the case at the area of the shiny ring, I load and shoot them. If this ring is the result of an overly large chamber your sizing die could leave a shiny mark in that area too. You'd have to be the judge on whether to reload them or scrap them. |
| No need to apologize NH-Handgunner. I apologize for the rude comment, it was clearly unnecessary, and you were simply trying to help. In any event, I emailed Lee about it, and they said to ship it in, so I will do so and see what happens. If its un-fixable, I'll pick up a Rockchucker. |
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Quoted:
I've loaded thousands of rounds of once fired military brass and have seen this ring before on numerous cases. I seem to find one lot of brass I've bought not have any of the rings and some lots with several cases, maybe 20 or more in 1000 round lots. I've thoroughly inspected these cases by feel and by looking inside the case and even cutting several of them apart for a closer look. I believe these cases with a ring like in your example are a result of manufacturing with the forming and sizing dies leaving this ring. Your sizing die is just rubbing this high spot making them shiny. IF they do not exhibit any stretch marks inside the case at the area of the shiny ring, I load and shoot them. If this ring is the result of an overly large chamber your sizing die could leave a shiny mark in that area too. You'd have to be the judge on whether to reload them or scrap them. Look at the case again, the ring does not go all around the circumference of the case, it's one sided. Something was mis-aligned |
To update the thread: I sent the press to Lee with a brief description of what happened, along with the cases and the die. They replaced the shellholder insert on the ram, and sent it back. After getting it mounted on the bench, I put a die in the press, and the shellholder back in, raised the ram until it contacted the die, and it appears that nothing has changed. I'll attach a picture to better explain what I am talking about. So, the press will be demoted to remove primer crimps. I do like the press, I was hoping it would be fixed, because it is built like a tank. I suppose this gives me a reason to upgrade to a Forster Co Ax. If only I could find one in stock. In the picture, if you look at the right side of the die, you can see it lines up fairly well with the shellholder. If you look at the left side of the die, you can see it protrudes from the side of the shellholder. If you take the die completely out, and put a shell in the shellholder, and raise the ram so the shell goes up into the threaded hole, you can see it is visibly off center.
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Wow, you can see the misalignment clearly in that pic.
If you had to use the press untill another can be found, may I suggest rotating the shell holder to a position where the case can slide forward into the loading groove to compensate for the alignment problem. The way it looks now, the case is misaligned side to side which the shell holder won't allow that movement. |
| For now, I am using an older Lee Challenger. It actually takes less effort to resize the .223 cases in this press than the Classic Cast, Im guessing because everything seems to line up just fine. But the spent primer collection is a joke. There is a little cup that they are supposed to fall into, but most of the time they just bounce out, and the press and surrounding bench gets somewhat dirty from this. Then there is the issue of removing them from this little cup, because it doesnt detach from the press, it is part of the press. It seemed to handle resizing the .223 cases just fine though. Good idea on rotating the shell holder though. |
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