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Posted: 6/15/2012 10:13:54 AM EDT
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I have been involved in some reloading projects that did not play out the way I thought they would. I've noticed a lot of people on here do the same, some to a much greater degree. So, I offer the following as an alternative to some of those whacky things we sometimes get into in this hobby.
Buy pre-primed brass ($212/1000 pieces, includes a primer) Load and shoot Sell the fired brass to recoup the cost ($140/1000 pieces, fits in one of those flat rate boxes) Net cost to you - $40/1000 ($0.04 per round) If you go to Wideners and stock up on the primed, unfired LC brass* and resell the once fired at their price, your net cost comes down to $25/1000. The benefit is no tumbling to clean, no need for a tumbler(?), no lubing, no sizing, no trimming, need for a trimmer, no re-tumbling to remove lube, no decrimping the primer pocket, no need for a decrimping tool, no neck annealing, no problems priming, ... Cost avoided: Tumbler - $100 Giraud trimmer - $400 Giraud annealer - $435 Dillon decrimper - $100 Priming tool - $50 to $100 In this hobby, we never apply a cost to our labor but you have to agree that processing large quantities of brass takes a lot of time, even with the high throughput tooling. Heresey, you say? I don't know about that. * That's $125/1000 of brand new, primed LC brass. |
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my fully finished cartridges cost about the same as your primed brass.
Good luck selling your brass at $140 per k. my tumbler was only $50 i use the lee system to trim i don't anneal yet but when i do it will probably be something like the hornaday set up for $50 decrimp with a hand tool no need for powered decrimping imho it's very easy and only needs done first time same sort of with trimming prime on the press with safety prime came with my kit to each his own if that works for you then by all means you are not even including your powder and bullets if your spending 212 for the primed brass $100 for bullets and $80 for powder your cartridges are costing you almost $400 you can buy already loaded for less. you are not going to get $140 for 1k twice fired brass. |
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I think you may have gotten lost in the minutia and missed the message.
Yes, I left the powder and bullet costs out as those are common to both and are not a discriminator (are needed no matter the case used). Build your cost model. Research the prices. Plug them in. Add in the cost of tooling , like the ones I mentioned/priced. Let me know what your break even point is. If you have the time to do it all manually and really do consider it fun, are not worried about arthritic hands, carpal tunnel syndrome, and repetitive motion diseases of the hand, then more power to you. Look around at some of the threads here. There are many who do not think it is fun, so they invest in all the expensive tools. Regarding the fun, when you have to process thousands of cases, even though it's only once in the life of the case, it is no longer fun. That lack of fun is where the expensive tooling comes into play. Then again, cases don't last forever. In another year or so, you'll be back at it all over again. If the objective is custom-tailored ammunition at a lower price than factory ammo (currently ~$1/round). The powder and bullet are the keys, not the case/primer. The situation so many are moving towards is so far out there they may have lost sight of the goal - lower cost. |
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Good luck selling your brass at $140 per k. Yup, less than half that minus your shipping cost. Yes, I forgot to update that before finalizing the post. Widener's price is $68/1000 ($204/3000). No matter, that is not the point. The important point here is, there's a market and a price for once fired LC brass. It's easy and fairly inexpensive to ship. It might also be possible to sell your once fired brass to others in your local club. Build your own model. Price it out. See if all those expensive tools really make any sense. I'm not even going to mention the phrase "cast your own bullets" in this thread. I'm not going to discuss adding gas checks to your cast bullets. I'm not going to mention putting your own cannelure on your jacketed match grade bullets. Nope,not gonna mention any of those. 
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my fully finished cartridges cost about the same as your primed brass. ... $400 you can buy already loaded for less. Me, too, I load match grade 223 (with a heavy match bullet) for about $0.25/round. Comparable factory ammo is ~$1.00/round, not $0.40 (not that I have ever seen). |
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The cost of the tooling can usually be recouped for the most part if the reloader chooses to sell it at a later date. Quality tools hold their value pretty well if taken care of.
I think there are multiple reasons most handloaders like to prep their own brass. First of all, they know exactly what was done to the cases from the time that they were once fired. Another reason is because handloading becomes another facet of the shooting hobby. Even though guys might bitch about case prep, they actually somewhat enjoy producing the finished product. |
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I'm on Widener's now and primed RP is $31/100, so $310 before shipping, per thousand.
LC primed brass looks to be $125/1000, before s/h. The problem with the LC stuff is that it's a limited supply item, so when it goes, it's gone until another batch of pulldowns happens. I guess if you don't want the tools and you don't want the hassle, you could spend $500 on 4k primed pieces and be set for a bit. It sure would save on a lot of work. You gotta figure that out of that $125 price, you're getting $30 worth of primers. You still have to do a bit of leg work, maybe camphering the mouths, if they need it, you need to at least re-neck size the cases and then stuff with powder and a bullet. Right now, Wolf 223 55/62gr ammo is back on sale at AIM for $220/1k for each weight, before s/h, so I guess we're back to whether, or not, reloading is something that can save a person money? Chris |
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LC primed brass looks to be $125/1000, before s/h. The problem with the LC stuff is that it's a limited supply item, so when it goes, it's gone until another batch of pulldowns happens. Agreed, that's why I said to stock up on it. Plus, the context here is a shooter who reloads many, many thousands of rounds. They won't be buying a few hundred or a thousand. Quoted:
Right now, Wolf 223 55/62gr ammo is back on sale at AIM for $220/1k for each weight, before s/h, so I guess we're back to whether, or not, reloading is something that can save a person money? This ammo is not comparable in quality to my reloads (which cost about $0.25/round). A better comparison would be Federal Gold Medal Match, Black Hills "Red Box" or "Blue Box", Hornady match ammo. I can reload ammo comparable to that 55 gr Wolf for a lower price, but I don't. |
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The cost of the tooling can usually be recouped for the most part if the reloader chooses to sell it at a later date. Quality tools hold their value pretty well if taken care of. I think it is usually the widow who sells the gear at an estate sale. No, unfortunately, they don't usually get a great return and the reloader never sees it. 
If it's the reloader who is selling, it is usually to upgrade to something better, faster, more expensive (rarely to something cheaper). |
| Well for me it is not about the "cost" or the "money" spent, it is about the hobby of "reloading". I spend a fare amount of time, and resources in this effort. I would not say that I really enjoy case prep work, but it is a part of the process, which I do enjoy. I like creating a better product that I could never find off the shelf that shoots rather well out of "my" weapons. I reload for 30-30, .233, 7.7x58, 7.62x54r, and soon for 7x57 and 30-06. I know that I could never get back what I paid for my reloading "stuff", but I do know that I can shoot more, a lot more that is, for what I can buy off of the self for the same amount of money. |
Why do you keep calling them "reloads"? You are handloading, but definitely not "reloading".
Never get the advantages of fire formed brass for your bolt guns that way either. LC primed brass $125/K (plus shipping) minus $60 (post shipping return) = $65/K (plus shipping) for your primed brass LC once fired $75/K (shipped) plus $30 for primers = $105/K Lets say you shoot 6K = $390 (plus LOTS in shipping) Me shooting your original once fired brass 6 times = $255 If your saying it saves you time thats true, but it costs you $135 more (again-plus ridiculous amounts of shipping). |
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The cost of the tooling can usually be recouped for the most part if the reloader chooses to sell it at a later date. Quality tools hold their value pretty well if taken care of. I think it is usually the widow who sells the gear at an estate sale. No, unfortunately, they don't usually get a great return and the reloader never sees it.
If it's the reloader who is selling, it is usually to upgrade to something better, faster, more expensive (rarely to something cheaper). Not always. I met a guy at a 3 gun match a few years ago who was trying to sell a Giraud trimmer that was only a few weeks old. He said he had processed about 10,000 rounds with it and decided he didn't need it after all. His friend told me he had done it before. He waited until he had a big batch of brass to prep, bought a top of the line piece of equipment, used it for the immediate project and then sold it for nearly what he paid for it. Clever idea, I suppose. |
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I got into reloading about three years ago.
I spent about $2K on reloading equipment mostly for .223. I am about to spend another $2K to get a Dillon 1050. I will have $4K in equipment. At $400/1000 for top line .223 I could have bought 10K rounds of factory fresh good quality .223. I have yet to reload 10K of .223. In addition I have spent probably close to $2K in reloading supplies (if not more). I will probably have to reload 15-20K of .223 before I will see any significant kind of cost savings. To me is not about the cost savings. It is about the hobby of it and being independent of the ammo distributors. It is also about being as self sufficient as you can be in a politically controlled environment. It is also about being able to mostly reload better ammo than you buy. If you want to shoot cheap go buy Wolf ammo or look for the occasional sales on Prvi. The amount of money you spend on reloading equipment can be cheap or expensive. The trade off is the time and effort you are able to spend. |
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