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Posted: 2/9/2012 4:16:13 PM EDT
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Alright guys, I wanted to put this in the Desert Eagle forum, but that area of the site is extremely slow and since this is strictly reloading I figured it was worth a try.
I am working up a load for the Desert Eagle chambered in 357. I have tried the following and here are my results. W231 = Did these a while ago, I forgot the charges. I know they were almost maxed out and did not even come close to cycling the gun. So now I moved onto H110. I am using 158G Remington SJHP's. 15.0 - Basically useless. 15.3 - Stovepipes almost every round 15.5 - Stovepipe one out of 3 15.7 - Starting to work. Maybe 1 out of 5 will stove pipe 16.0 - This is where I am right now. I just got back from the range and here is what I notice. Sometimes I get 10 in a row that work flawlessly. Then I have 2-3 that just stovepipe. But out of the 40 rounds I shot, I had about 5 jams in total. Not too bad. Here is what I am wondering. I am getting HUGE muzzle flash now... What has caught my eye is there is a lot of unburnt powder staying inside the chamber and its causing the following round to have issues getting fully into battery. If I take the barrel off and clean that area every 25 rounds or so it chambers the next round no problem. To me that is ridiculous though having to clean it every 25 rounds. Would using a very heavy crimp help it burn all the powder? I am using a medium crimp. Going from 3.76 to about 3.69 at the cannelure. I dont want to crush these things either. Just looking for some opinions. The max load is 16.6, and right now there are no pressure signs on the brass or primers. But it seems if I am already getting a lot of flash, and extra powder laying in the barrel and throat area what would be the point of upping the charge? Thanks in advance. |
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My .357 Desert Eagle like 16 grains of H110, mag primers and one hell of a crimp on it. I can't tell you want the crimp is, I'm not real sure how to measure it with calibers.
But yes, Hot hot loads and a lot of crimp. You still get one hell of a fireball. They are fun to shoot! (For comparison, put those same rounds through a 2.25" SP101! Wrist crackers!) |
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Quoted: My .357 Desert Eagle like 16 grains of H110, mag primers and one hell of a crimp on it. I can't tell you want the crimp is, I'm not real sure how to measure it with calibers. But yes, Hot hot loads and a lot of crimp. You still get one hell of a fireball. They are fun to shoot! (For comparison, put those same rounds through a 2.25" SP101! Wrist crackers!) Those 158 gr loads are truely brutal in a SP 101. I shoot the 125's in mine. |
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Quoted: So what you are saying is I still have another grain worth of trial to go for. I guess I will try some 16.2-3 and see what happens. I want to use the least amount possible while having the gun function properly. Yes, Lyman 49 lists 17.0 grs as max with a 158 gr JHP. 16.3 grs as the start load.
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Wow... Ok well my Lee book shows the start is 15.0 and max at 16.6
That is why I started so low. I don't have anything against cramming powder in there, I just felt like I was getting too high on the end of the amount. I guess the 15's just should not have been used at all. I shall try 16.2 and go .2 up every time with heavy crimp until this thing functions 100% ETA: I am also using normal primers. CCI Small Pistol. |
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Well with the H110 being readily available for me locally I am going to give this a shot all the way to 17 grains. If this does not work even at that max load with heavy crimp then I will switch. But seeing as how I have it, I will give it an honest go.
Going to make up some loads tomorrow and give them a try this weekend. |
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in general, for sub-maximal loads, it is better to use a slightly faster-burning powder.
H110 is a very slow-burning pistol powder. moving to AA7, blue dot, or even AA5 etc will allow you to generate the pressure you need for complete combustion, while keeping the bullet velocity down a bit. felt recoil is a function of bullet energy, and energy is related to the square of velocity...so small reductions in velocity can noticeably reduce recoil. i use 8.2gr AA5 in my 158gr. .357 loads and they shoot great, and there is no unburnt powder anywhere. BT |
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Quoted:
Alright guys, I wanted to put this in the Desert Eagle forum, but that area of the site is extremely slow and since this is strictly reloading I figured it was worth a try. I am working up a load for the Desert Eagle chambered in 357. I have tried the following and here are my results. W231 = Did these a while ago, I forgot the charges. I know they were almost maxed out and did not even come close to cycling the gun. So now I moved onto H110. I am using 158G Remington SJHP's. 15.0 - Basically useless. 15.3 - Stovepipes almost every round 15.5 - Stovepipe one out of 3 15.7 - Starting to work. Maybe 1 out of 5 will stove pipe 16.0 - This is where I am right now. I just got back from the range and here is what I notice. Sometimes I get 10 in a row that work flawlessly. Then I have 2-3 that just stovepipe. But out of the 40 rounds I shot, I had about 5 jams in total. Not too bad. Here is what I am wondering. I am getting HUGE muzzle flash now... What has caught my eye is there is a lot of unburnt powder staying inside the chamber and its causing the following round to have issues getting fully into battery. If I take the barrel off and clean that area every 25 rounds or so it chambers the next round no problem. To me that is ridiculous though having to clean it every 25 rounds. Would using a very heavy crimp help it burn all the powder? I am using a medium crimp. Going from 3.76 to about 3.69 at the cannelure. I dont want to crush these things either. Just looking for some opinions. The max load is 16.6, and right now there are no pressure signs on the brass or primers. But it seems if I am already getting a lot of flash, and extra powder laying in the barrel and throat area what would be the point of upping the charge? Thanks in advance. Those loads are tested with a pressure barrel with minumum tolerances. I have, and you can, go beyond them as long as you watch for pressure signs. The barrel on your DE might have a longer throat slightly oversized bore etc.... Still shoots good but needs more umph to get it to where it needs to be. |
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Thats exactly what I am thinking Tubby.
And honestly, I feel like you could run 25 grains (if it could fit) and not damage this gun. It is so overbuilt it is insane. So I am going to try to work up to 17 this weekend and hopefully I can get it to function properly. |
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Depends on the ammo. Winchester 357 mag, no. It will do what it is doing now.
Seller and Bellot, it works great. They run their stuff real hot so it seems to work fine. Lots of muzzle flash from their stuff. I was reading an article about which factory ammos work with this gun, and S&B was one of them which is why I picked it up. I guess because the slide is so heavy, and that it is gas operated it needs quite a hot charge. |
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H110 in the 357mag as well as the 44mag really needs three things, first - it needs to be loaded at near case capacity to burn efficiently and Hodgdon warns against downloading more than 3% of maximum charges (see Hodgdon Handloading site). Second - it needs to be crimped at least medium to full to allow the powder to build up heat for proper burn. Third - and most important, it needs a magnum primer. |
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Quoted: That is a problem. All loading data I have ever seen has specified magnum primers for H-110.Wow... Ok well my Lee book shows the start is 15.0 and max at 16.6 That is why I started so low. I don't have anything against cramming powder in there, I just felt like I was getting too high on the end of the amount. I guess the 15's just should not have been used at all. I shall try 16.2 and go .2 up every time with heavy crimp until this thing functions 100% ETA: I am also using normal primers. CCI Small Pistol. That may explain your unburned powder issue. |
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Ok then what I am going to do is go get me some magnum primers, and also bump the charge to 16.2. I am going to the gun store Tuesday to pick up my new Blackhawk, I will grab some primers then.
I will start there, and keep working up using the mag primers. Was not aware that I needed them, as my book does not say anything about them. Just says Small Pistol. Is there really that big of a difference with the mag and normal primer? |
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With H110 in magnum cases, the most important factor for consistent performance is a heavy, uniform crimp.
It's one the few cases where I recommend trimming straight wall pistol cases. You need a really firm crimp (I.E.: bordering on messing up your brass). If your brass is different lengths, you are going to over crimp the long cases and under crimp the short cases. Try trimming your brass to uniform length and use an extra heavy crimp. Also seat the bullet and crimp in two separate steps. |
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Is there really that big of a difference with the mag and normal primer?
The burn time is longer. The flame will be hotter. Dont forget neck tension can be adusted by using a smaller expander button. Trim the brass & use only magnum pistol primers. Article on Primers
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Quoted: I was actually planning on trimming only this brass for that exact reason. It is different lengths and that is making the crimps uneven. I do have about 700 winchester small rifle primers. Will those be safe? There are those here who say you don't have to trim pistol brass. I disagree. With revolver rounds using a roll crimp, cases all the same length makes for a consistent crimp. I always trim every revolver case the first time I load it, after that they never seem to need trimming. I have never used rifle primers in 357, but read posts from those who do. I would begin at the start load and work up if you decide to go that way.  How this load shoots for me. |
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Figured I would post an update.
Tried 16.3 with Winchester Small Rifle primers. Same exact outcome of the small pistol primers. About 40% success. So, then I got myself some Magnum primers. My success rate went from 40% to about 90% using 16.3 grains of powder. I tested those today. Accuracy was good, normal shooting position without using a rest I was getting a 1" grouping at 25 feet. I find that decently acceptable. So I just got done loading up 30 more rounds but now using 16.5 grains and Mag primers. Will be trying those tomorrow. Goal is to keep the accuracy and have the gun cycle flawlessly. I must say though this has been one hell of a long road. Never have I had to tweak something as much as this one. But it has been fun even though I feel bad about all the wasted bullets haha. One thing I do notice is that it is shooting much higher now. But, I can deal with that. ETA: That I have trimmed all my brass to the same length, and am using a heavy crimp on these now as well. Not crushing the case mouths, but there is a visible roll crimp in there. 
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Quoted: Glad your load is coming together at last. Sometimes the primer type makes a big difference. Like your load.Figured I would post an update. Tried 16.3 with Winchester Small Rifle primers. Same exact outcome of the small pistol primers. About 40% success. So, then I got myself some Magnum primers. My success rate went from 40% to about 90% using 16.3 grains of powder. I tested those today. Accuracy was good, normal shooting position without using a rest I was getting a 1" grouping at 25 feet. I find that decently acceptable. So I just got done loading up 30 more rounds but now using 16.5 grains and Mag primers. Will be trying those tomorrow. Goal is to keep the accuracy and have the gun cycle flawlessly. I must say though this has been one hell of a long road. Never have I had to tweak something as much as this one. But it has been fun even though I feel bad about all the wasted bullets haha. One thing I do notice is that it is shooting much higher now. But, I can deal with that. ETA: That I have trimmed all my brass to the same length, and am using a heavy crimp on these now as well. Not crushing the case mouths, but there is a visible roll crimp in there. http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af24/PapaGeno21/Guns/DSCF7246.jpg Great pic, that 357 case looks two inches long in that pic. Nice effect. Crimp looks GTG. Years ago I bought 6k of Rem 158 gr JHP's. Think the price per bullet was .04 back then. (1997) Still have about 1k left, they are good bullets.
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