Armory Sponsor
Posted: 1/30/2012 4:29:34 PM EDT
|
Curious as to what members are using to load home defense rounds with 9mm and 115gr JHP bullets.
I have a lot of JHP's just because they shoot more accurately than the FMJ and thought I should probably load up some for HD use as well. Currently I am loading 4.4gr of Titegroup and the 115 JHP Montana Gold for range practice. These loads feel a little softer than WWB. The manuals say 4.5 to 4.8max with Titegroup. Any other podwer that would be better to load up some hotter HD rounds? I just use Titegroup for 45acp, 9mm and was wondering what max charges people have used with it as well. thanks |
|
Several choices from Doc Roberts list of best self defense ammo here: Ammo to Go most for under $30 for a box of 50.
No reason to reinvent the wheel when you can pick up a couple boxes of ammo that has been tested and meets FBI specs for a reasonable price. |
| i too have heard not to use reloads for HD, but for different reasons than stated. A forensic expert can tell the distance between a shooter and the criminal based on the wounds, powder dispersion and other such science ninja fu. Basically if your rounds are loaded light, it will seem they were shot from further away, which if handed to a liberal prosecutor, or in a civil suit could prove costly. Also you will not be able to use other loads in that batch to your defense, because each hand load is considered unique in the eyes of the law. This may not play a factor in a home invasion (if protected by castle doctrine) however if those rounds get mixed in with carry rounds.... just not worth it to me. I have 500 rounds of JHP i got with my loader and they are used for practice or emergency ammo. call my crazy, just my .02 |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Store bought for home defense. This. It has been said that it may not be wise to use reloads for carry or home defense because in court lawyers will make it out like you're at home making some extreme super killer bullets or something. Completely false, and this had been covered about a million times.... |
| Screw what the courts say. If its down to my life or his, I dont give a rats ass if I have to defend myself with a bullet loaded by hornady or myslef. I load 124g XTPs for 9mm HD (for my wife) but like the others say, I load 185g XTPs for my .45 GAP. Gonna load a lot of Sierra JHP as soon as I get off my lazy azz and order them. I asked pretty much this same question when it came to etching my latest AR build. I was worried what the perception would be if I had to ever use it and it was etched with some pro 2nd amendment phrase. I came to conclusion that I dont really care what the perception is because the attorneys are going to spin it whichever direction they need to to make a case anyway. Use what you are going to use. A good defense attorney should be able to defend a home invasion shooting no matter what defense round you use. |
|
Quoted:
This. One less route to a zealous prosecutor to try to gut me with.Store bought for home defense. Quoted: No, certainly not completely false, it's been an issue in real cases in the past.
Quoted: Completely false, and this had been covered about a million times....Quoted:
This. It has been said that it may not be wise to use reloads for carry or home defense because in court lawyers will make it out like you're at home making some extreme super killer bullets or something.Store bought for home defense. |
|
Home Defense Handloads: 30 Carbine - Sierra 110grn JSP 357 Mag - Zero 158grn JSP 40 S&W - Speer 180grn Gold Dot 45 ACP - Speer 230grn Gold Dot 10mm - Speer 165grn & 180grn Gold Dot AR15 - Hornady 68grn HPBT M1A - 168grn Hornady TAP Depending upon what weapon is nearest. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
This. One less route to a zealous prosecutor to try to gut me with.Store bought for home defense. Quoted: No, certainly not completely false, it's been an issue in real cases in the past.Quoted: Completely false, and this had been covered about a million times....Quoted:
This. It has been said that it may not be wise to use reloads for carry or home defense because in court lawyers will make it out like you're at home making some extreme super killer bullets or something.Store bought for home defense. Which ones? Cites? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
NH v. Kennedy
Which ones? Cites? NJ V. Bias TN v. Barnes Iowa v. Cpl. Randy Willems In just the first case alone, Kennedy was acquitted. Shall I keep looking? ETA: It appears every single one was an acquittal and even the civil suits were not won by the prosecution. You're being disingenuous. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
NH v. Kennedy
Which ones? Cites? NJ V. Bias TN v. Barnes Iowa v. Cpl. Randy Willems In just the first case alone, Kennedy was acquitted. Shall I keep looking? ETA: It appears every single one was an acquittal and even the civil suits were not won by the prosecution. You're being disingenuous. you asked for cases where it proved to be a problem for the user. I would call spending hundreds of thousands of dollars defending yourself over a $20 box of ammo a problem. nothing disingenuous about it. I believe others would call you naive.  
|
|
That's the same material referenced above and is either a bad shoot in the Bias case, which would have been problematic no matter what, or resulted in acquittals. Some shootings go to trial. It's just the way it is. Whether or not handloads are in use is a very minor issue. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
NH v. Kennedy
Which ones? Cites? NJ V. Bias TN v. Barnes Iowa v. Cpl. Randy Willems In just the first case alone, Kennedy was acquitted. Shall I keep looking? ETA: It appears every single one was an acquittal and even the civil suits were not won by the prosecution. You're being disingenuous. you asked for cases where it proved to be a problem for the user. I would call spending hundreds of thousands of dollars defending yourself over a $20 box of ammo a problem. nothing disingenuous about it. I believe others would call you naive. It happens when you shoot someone. Legal costs are a big deal even in justifiable defense shootings. |
|
Quoted:
You definitely need to keep looking because you're missing the whole point. Science can convince jurors to convict or not convict. Using reloaded ammunition in a lethal force scenario leaves factors open to false portrayal by the prosecution.
In just the first case alone, Kennedy was acquitted. Shall I keep looking? ETA: It appears every single one was an acquittal and even the civil suits were not won by the prosecution. You're being disingenuous. No one said "If you use reloads you're get convicted and go to prison." Which seems to be the what you're looking for. You're inventing a goal line, yet you accuse me of being disingenuous. |
|
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think the same can be argued about the latest and greatest factory loads as well.
I can picture an ass wipe prosecutor trying to convince a jury that Joe Blow went out and bought the deadliest ammo available so he could murder someone with it. ETA I think anyone argueing for the state would try just about anything to win a case. |
|
Quoted:
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think the same can be argued about the latest and greatest factory loads as well. I can picture an ass wipe prosecutor trying to convince a jury that Joe Blow went out and bought the deadliest ammo available so he could murder someone with it. ETA I think anyone argueing for the state would try just about anything to win a case. Naw, man, it's only if you use handloads. 
That's the magic pixie dust for avoiding any and all issues stemming from a lethal force encounter. Don't use handloads. 
|
|
Quoted:
Factory loads can be duplicated, and they're highly consistent, as they're produced by the thousands, if not millions.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think the same can be argued about the latest and greatest factory loads as well. I can picture an ass wipe prosecutor trying to convince a jury that Joe Blow went out and bought the deadliest ammo available so he could murder someone with it. ETA I think anyone arguing for the state would try just about anything to win a case. Handloads, not so much. When was the last time you saw a handloader that was certified by a 3rd party as ISO 9000/9001 compliant? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Factory loads can be duplicated, and they're highly consistent, as they're produced by the thousands, if not millions.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think the same can be argued about the latest and greatest factory loads as well. I can picture an ass wipe prosecutor trying to convince a jury that Joe Blow went out and bought the deadliest ammo available so he could murder someone with it. ETA I think anyone arguing for the state would try just about anything to win a case. Handloads, not so much. When was the last time you saw a handloader that was certified by a 3rd party as ISO 9000/9001 compliant? Like I said I have no dog in this fight, but the Black Talons would be an example of ammo that could be considered by prosecution to be unnecessary and extreme. ETA: Next time I see Mr Ayoob ill ask him about his publications on the issue. I see him a few times a year around these parts in the Walmart and such. |
|
Quoted:
Nothing like trying to put words on someone's mouth to prove your point.
That's the magic pixie dust for avoiding any and all issues stemming from a lethal force encounter. Don't use handloads. No one said that using factory ammo would keep you out of all legal trouble. No one said that using handloads automatically get you convicted either. But using handloaded ammo gives the prosecution another brush to paint you with the color they've chosen. |
| My recommendation is to buy a couple boxes of your preferred HD/SD ammo to keep loaded up in your HD/SD guns should the need ever arise. Come up with reloads that duplicate the factory fodder for training. That way you can practice with jhp's at less than half the cost of factory ammo. Best of both worlds in my opinion, don't risk your freedom over saving a buck. |
|
Quoted:
My recommendation is to buy a couple boxes of your preferred HD/SD ammo to keep loaded up in your HD/SD guns should the need ever arise. Come up with reloads that duplicate the factory fodder for training. That way you can practice with jhp's at less than half the cost of factory ammo. Best of both worlds in my opinion, don't risk your freedom over saving a buck. It's not about saving money. It's about the quality, comfort, and piece of mind that comes only from your own reloads. Don't trust your life or your families life to a faceless factory worker miles and miles away. |
|
Quoted:
Curious as to what members are using to load home defense rounds with 9mm and 115gr JHP bullets. I have a lot of JHP's just because they shoot more accurately than the FMJ and thought I should probably load up some for HD use as well. Currently I am loading 4.4gr of Titegroup and the 115 JHP Montana Gold for range practice. These loads feel a little softer than WWB. The manuals say 4.5 to 4.8max with Titegroup. Any other podwer that would be better to load up some hotter HD rounds? I just use Titegroup for 45acp, 9mm and was wondering what max charges people have used with it as well. thanks TO ANSWER THE OP'S ORIGINAL QUESTION  -
In handgun calibers, it seems to me that the most reliable "SD" projectile that is openly available for reloading would be the Speer Gold Dot. Lots of reliable ballistics data to back it up, and there is published load data out there in many places for it. Thousands used everyday by a million LEOs nationwide. Also the Remington Golden Sabers are available for reloading, some like them better b/c of their more rounded nose In short, I would recommend a well-established, bonded, HP like those mentioned above for potential "social" purposes [rant] Now then, can we FOR ONCE not make this a debate forum on legal issues? The OP wanted to ask a RELOADING question - he didn't call an attorney! [/rant] |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Store bought for home defense. This. It has been said that it may not be wise to use reloads for carry or home defense because in court lawyers will make it out like you're at home making some extreme super killer bullets or something. A lot of stuff has "been said". A lot of stuff has been said by idiots. |
|
To the OP, the 115gr Montana Gold HP has, IIRC, been shown to be a pretty poor hollow-point as far as expansion. Someone here did some research or testing on it a while back and while it's a pretty accurate bullet, it's not much of a performer as a HP.
I load 147gr Gold Dots, 75gr BTHP for my AR's, and Remington 110gr SP's for my .30 Carbine. Oh, and I'm a lawyer and former prosecutor. |
Armory Sponsor