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Posted: 1/25/2012 2:07:00 AM EDT
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Hey guys,
I want to load copper plated bullets in 9mm Luger with Accurate No. 2 or No. 5. The bullet weights are 100, 115, 125 and 145grs.. Which powder should I prefer? No. 2 for the lighter bullets and No. 5 for the heavier? Or all with No. 2 or No. 5? I just start reloading the 9mm Luger but have done some other calibers (.357 Mag, .45 ACP, .223 Rem., 30-06 Spring., 7,5x55 Swiss, and so on). Can you help me inhere with your experiences? Thanks therefor, J. |
| I would agree on #5 for all. I'm looking at Modern Reloading by Lee and there's specific plated slug data for 9mm. Looks like #5 preforms well for all your bullet weights. I've been using it for plated slugs in .45 with great results. If you plan on loading a lot of plated, pick up Modern Reloading. |
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Hi JayJay, -what is your goal? Top velocity is best achieved with a medium to slow pistol powder - and #5 fits that bill. Hotter still loads with 124s are possible with HS-6 or Vihta Vouri N-350.
On the other hand, a faster-burning powder like #2 will recoil LESS for the same velocity/bullet weght. This is simply a fact & here is a Hornady article which explains part of the science: http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/superformance-technology.pdf Recoil discussion Recoil is a complicated discussion that has parts to it that are not commonly understood. The fundamental misunderstanding of recoil is that the recoil is over when the bullet leaves the barrel. In truth, the vast majority of recoil occurs after the projectile exits the barrel. By far the greatest percentage of recoil is produced by the force of the gases and propellant residue/ejecta leaving the barrel. Consider for a moment what is really happening, the mass that existed in the solid propellant before the round was fired doesn’t disappear, it is converted into another form of matter, gas. This gas, although you may not be able to see it or touch it, still has mass and energy. The real contribution to recoil from this gas comes from the fact that it is leaving the barrel at velocities on the order of 8,000 – 10,000 fps. The energy in these high velocity gases is what produces the lion’s share of recoil. It’s easier to picture what is happening if you think of the muzzle as a rocket nozzle. If the amount of gas, gas pressure, and gas velocity, of these exiting gases can be reduced this will reduce the force exerted on the gun by the gases and reduce recoil. This is exactly what has been accomplished with the Superformance propellants and ammunition. Figure 3. shows the entire recoil process and |
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Quoted:
Hi JayJay, -what is your goal? Top velocity is best achieved with a medium to slow pistol powder - and #5 fits that bill. Hotter still loads with 124s are possible with HS-6 or Vihta Vouri N-350. On the other hand, a faster-burning powder like #2 will recoil LESS for the same velocity/bullet weght. This is simply a fact & here is a Hornady article which explains part of the science: http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/superformance-technology.pdf Recoil discussion Recoil is a complicated discussion that has parts to it that are not commonly understood. The fundamental misunderstanding of recoil is that the recoil is over when the bullet leaves the barrel. In truth, the vast majority of recoil occurs after the projectile exits the barrel. By far the greatest percentage of recoil is produced by the force of the gases and propellant residue/ejecta leaving the barrel. Consider for a moment what is really happening, the mass that existed in the solid propellant before the round was fired doesn’t disappear, it is converted into another form of matter, gas. This gas, although you may not be able to see it or touch it, still has mass and energy. The real contribution to recoil from this gas comes from the fact that it is leaving the barrel at velocities on the order of 8,000 – 10,000 fps. The energy in these high velocity gases is what produces the lion’s share of recoil. It’s easier to picture what is happening if you think of the muzzle as a rocket nozzle. If the amount of gas, gas pressure, and gas velocity, of these exiting gases can be reduced this will reduce the force exerted on the gun by the gases and reduce recoil. This is exactly what has been accomplished with the Superformance propellants and ammunition. Figure 3. shows the entire recoil process and Interesting... I never thought of it that way. |
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@CBR900:
Well, this is new and interesting for me, thanks for this awareness. But how do you come to the result, that a faster burning powder produces a less or slower gas blow? Wouldn´t a faster burning powder accelerate more and give out a faster gas blow too?  
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Quoted: @CBR900: Well, this is new and interesting for me, thanks for this awareness. But how do you come to the result, that a faster burning powder produces a less or slower gas blow? Wouldn´t a faster burning powder accelerate more and give out a faster gas blow too? For the same velocity the charge of faster powder is less than the slower powder. Less powder=less gas=less recoil. |
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Quoted:
Aha, I see. Well then, to bring it to the end, always taking the faster powder? With the heavier bullets (145gr. for example) too? That is exactly what is done in combat pistol competition (i.e.: USPSA/ipsc; IDPA or 3gun). Atlanta Arms in the U.S. makes a popular competition load using Zero 147 grn JHPs over a very fast Winchester powder. Personally, I loaded the 9mm ammo that was used to win an IDPA Winter Nationals a few years back (no, I was not the shooter). The load is NOT listed in reloading manuals, but it uses the same 147 grn JHP over an extremely fast burning Vihta Vouri powder (hint: faster than N-320). Recoil is minimal with this load (though the peak chamber pressure is quite high & there are good reasons V V does not publish it). It is not just combat pistol either; the Cowboy Action shooters often use an extremely fast-burning single base powder made just for them: Trail Boss, though this unusual powder is also specifically shaped to help uniformly fill some of the huge volume of empty space left after using a light target powder charge in a case like .45 Long Colt or .38 Special. JayJay - for your use, No2 will produce less recoil given the same bullet and velocity. If you opt to use 147s, another safe load (which is also low recoil) uses Titegroup: this load also produces very good accuracy. (note as to competition loads: there are also "Divisions" or classes where compensators/barrel porting is permitted. The loads used in that division (Open and the soon-to-be defunct Modified) are radically different - typically using "9mm Major" but the compensator/ports change everything about how the handgun recoils, so the loading principle employed is completely different and not applicable here). |
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BTW - in competition where .40 is required, the 180 grain & 200 grain bullets dominate the equipment surveys - fast powder is used for these also (Titegroup and N-320 are common).
For .45, the same is true: 230 grain bullets usually over a powder like Clays, Solo 1000, Titegroup, N-310 or N320, or even Winchester 231/HP-38. |
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