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Posted: 11/10/2011 6:31:30 PM EDT
| Just got my first ar and im looking to reload for it. It will mainly be used for plinking but i want the rounds to be for self defense. Any suggetions on a couple of different bullets to look at? I ususaly crimp most of my loads with a lee factory crimp die so i would assume that is good for this as well? Any other tips or pointers would be much appricieated |
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I still find it much cheaper to reload.
The majority of my reloads are Hornady 55 gr FMJBTs with a slight taper crimp in the cannelure. I've never used the Lee factory crimp die, but if you have one, try it out. That's half the fun of reloading. Seeing what works and seeing what doesn't! |
Welcome to Arfcom and the Reloading Forum.
You came to the right place. Hornady 55 gr FMJBT. Considered the best and most accurate 55 gr FMJBT available. A cheap and great bullet to start loading with. Self defence, Barnes 53 or 62 gr all copper bullets. Get a Barnes reloading manual if you load these bullets, they use different loading data. Post your barrel twist rate so we will know if your barrel will stabilize the heavy bullets. Another forum to check out for bullet performance for self defence is the Ammunition Forum, it is under the Handgun tab. |
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I've noticed in several threads that folks seem to favor ball powders for reloading .223/ 5.56mm presumably because they use a progressive style reloading set -up for volume and ball powders meter well and fairly consistent for these purposes.
One should not however discount the use of venerable old favorites like IMR 3031 a/o IMR 4064 and other log powders for the AR as while not as easily metered, they can produce some outstanding results and are very versatile covering a wide array of calibers. |
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This may be helpful.
http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm |
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Great link, thanks for posting. |
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My barrel has a 1:7 twist rate so it can handle bigger, but not sure i'll go real big. Ive tried barnes with other guns in the past and I just never could get loads that i was happy with. As far as the fmj route im just not sure of how they would do in self defense. Im really not concerend about going through walls or anything as my primary home defense wepons are shotgun and pistol. I was kinda looking at the 6ogn v-max or the nosler 60grn ballistic tip. But im not sure what i think being both are for varmits. I guess im gonna have a hard time finding something in the 223 range that isnt soft point that is for more than varmit. I would defintaly try the barnes again but being im going to be loading 1000's of these the fact they cost 2x as much kinda excludes them from my search.
Does that fact that i have a 1:7 twist make the bigger grn better than the 55gr range or does it just mean i can use both. And does useing the 60gr over the 55 make a real difference or should i just go ahead with something like a 70gr or keep with the 55gr? I was also considering the 75 gr a-max but it says right in the book that they cant be loaded to magaizine size. Haha i guess im all over the place. My reloading method has always been pick what bullet I want and then find a powder and charge that works good. When i first started i was trying different bullets and different powers and it just got to be to much. I've boiled it down to picking a definite bullet and then trying 5 different kinds of powder each with 3 charges then fine tuning from there. Its seems to be working good for the last 3 loads i made and it cut down on time and cost. |
| also i forgot to ask I pretty much exclusivly use cci primers just to keep things easy. I used the regular cci sm rifle for my mini-14 and ive never had a problem but i have heard suggested to use the cci military ones for the ar is this really nessasry? Is slam fires really that big of a concern as long as the primers are seated correctly. |
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also i forgot to ask I pretty much exclusivly use cci primers just to keep things easy. I used the regular cci sm rifle for my mini-14 and ive never had a problem but i have heard suggested to use the cci military ones for the ar is this really nessasry? Is slam fires really that big of a concern as long as the primers are seated correctly. i have gone through over 500 cci regular small rifle primers with out a problem. they do show pressure signs earlier than my rem 7 1/2 primers i also use. |
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Hornady's 75 grain A-max bullet will not fit or feed from a magazine. They are designed to be loaded one at a time into the chamber for 600 yard tournament use. OAL's around 2.400". Buy Hornady's 75 grain BTHP match bullet instead, they can be seated at 2.250" - 2.260" and feed like any other. 77 grain SMK's and Nosler work well too.
I use extruded powders because I usually load heavier bullets and those powders seem to produce better accuracy for me. N140, RE-15 and Varget @ 23.0 to no more than 24.0 grains with 75/77 grain bullets. H4895 works well to @ 22.5 to 23.0 grains and these bullets. For pure accuracy it's hard to beat 52/53 grain match bullets. They shoot very well from 1/7 twist barrels regardless of what people think they should do. Almost any reasonable powder (listed in the manuals) works fine with 55 grain fmj's for plinking rounds. |
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also i forgot to ask I pretty much exclusivly use cci primers just to keep things easy. I used the regular cci sm rifle for my mini-14 and ive never had a problem but i have heard suggested to use the cci military ones for the ar is this really nessasry? Is slam fires really that big of a concern as long as the primers are seated correctly. I have run into the CCI 400's flattening some at what is considered a reasonable charge of 24.0g H335 using the Hornady 55g fmj. Same load using a CCI 450 showed no flattening at all. I'm staying with the 450's in my AR. They seem to have a thicker/harder cup. CCI 41's are the mil equivilent SRP. The Hornady 55g spire points are very accurate for me as a varmint load. Some of the "super explosive" varmint bullets have a thin jacket and may fly apart in a 1/7 twist barrel at high FPS loadings. I crimp my bulk/plinking loads with the Lee FCD as case length isn't super critical. My varmint/softpoint bullets only get a crimp if there's a cannalure. |
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My barrel has a 1:7 twist rate so it can handle bigger, but not sure i'll go real big. Ive tried barnes with other guns in the past and I just never could get loads that i was happy with. As far as the fmj route im just not sure of how they would do in self defense. Im really not concerend about going through walls or anything as my primary home defense wepons are shotgun and pistol. I was kinda looking at the 6ogn v-max or the nosler 60grn ballistic tip. But im not sure what i think being both are for varmits. I guess im gonna have a hard time finding something in the 223 range that isnt soft point that is for more than varmit. I would defintaly try the barnes again but being im going to be loading 1000's of these the fact they cost 2x as much kinda excludes them from my search. Does that fact that i have a 1:7 twist make the bigger grn better than the 55gr range or does it just mean i can use both. And does useing the 60gr over the 55 make a real difference or should i just go ahead with something like a 70gr or keep with the 55gr? I was also considering the 75 gr a-max but it says right in the book that they cant be loaded to magaizine size. Haha i guess im all over the place. My reloading method has always been pick what bullet I want and then find a powder and charge that works good. When i first started i was trying different bullets and different powers and it just got to be to much. I've boiled it down to picking a definite bullet and then trying 5 different kinds of powder each with 3 charges then fine tuning from there. Its seems to be working good for the last 3 loads i made and it cut down on time and cost. For bullet performance for self defence check out the the Ammunition Forum, it is under the Handgun tab. Proper primer seating is the key to preventing slam fires in an AR. |
| I can tell you that 1:7 to 1:9 will stabillize the full range of bullets that have been discussed. As far as bullet preference, I am working on Sierra 55gr HPBT, 77gr HPBT, Hornady 55gr V-max, and 75gr A-max. I have used all of those rounds with great results in my 1:7 RRA Entry Tactical. I have used the 77gr HPBT for high power in a 1:8 RRA NMA2. I have a friend that shoots 3-gun and he uses the 75gr A-max. Since he and his 3-gun group use these, I find it hard to believe that they won't work in the mags. I am going to have to check in on this. I am going to add the 62gr FMJ-BT and the 52gr FMJ to my list, because they have been recommend for economical plinking rounds. |
| Some 1/9 twist barrels will not stabilize 75/77 grain bullets. Those that do will "just" make it and groups may fall apart at extended ranges. Try several brands of bullets before buying any quantity if you own a 1/9. It's close to 50/50 whether your 1/9 will work with these bullets. 1/9 works great for anything weighing 69 grains or less. |
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I found it cheaper to buy with wally world selling 20 for 4.57 My bulk .223 reloads are 15-17 cents per. Box of 20 is $3 - $3.40. Still cheaper, and its not wolf. With the deal I got on primers a while back mine are .14 per round. I don't know why someone would come in the reloading forum and post that? Some of us reload, because we like to reload too! |
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While "ammunition" under the Handgun tab may be informative, may I suggest looking at "ammunition" under the AR-15 tab. I think there may be much more AR-15 ammunition data available there.
The 77 gn Sierra Match King (open tip match) with cannelure is close to the same bullet that is used in the military Mk262 spec. The 75 gn Hornady OTM with cannelure is close to the same bullet that is used in the TAP 5.56 NATO round. Both of these demonstrate superior terminal ballistics in the defense category and stabilize well in the 1:7 twist barrels. |
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While "ammunition" under the Handgun tab may be informative, may I suggest looking at "ammunition" under the AR-15 tab. I think there may be much more AR-15 ammunition data available there. The 77 gn Sierra Match King (open tip match) with cannelure is close to the same bullet that is used in the military Mk262 spec. The 75 gn Hornady OTM with cannelure is close to the same bullet that is used in the TAP 5.56 NATO round. Both of these demonstrate superior terminal ballistics in the defense category and stabilize well in the 1:7 twist barrels. I didn't know there were 2 Ammo forums. Now I do, thanks. Learn something new every day. |
well thanks for all the input, I still havent really made up my mind. I really wish they made a 65gr A-max but oh well. It'll be a couple more weeks till i get the gun in the mail and at my ffl and build it and do some inital shooting. So I still have a while to make up my mind. I really leaing towards something from hornady or Sierra at the time but the nosler 60grn balitic tip looks inticing. Decisions desicsions
Is the bullet that they are using in the 60gr Hornady Tap ammo just a v-max. It looks like it but i cant really find anything on it . And yea I seriously doubt that you can get anything thats not complete crap ammo for even close to the same price as what you can reload it. Then add on the fact your getting in most cases permium ammo that is tailor fit to your gun. I was looking to reload for my sks the other day to and someone told how dumb i was for doing it being that you can by surplus (insert what ever 3rd world country name you want ) suff for so cheap. Every time that i run the numbers it always comes out to be at at least close to the same and im getting way better stuff. Most of the surplus 7.62 stuff is real crap that i wouldnt want to shoot in my gun in the first palce, I figure a couple thousand .223 and a 1,000 7.62 and 1,000 .308 for my ptr will give me plenty to do on those cold winter days i dont feel like going out. Sorry if i posted this in the wrong area figured im disscusing reloading so i would put it in the realoading section. |
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Well I finally had some time to really look into it and is looks like Im going to go with one of these 2
Hornady 68gr hpbt Sierra 69 hpbt match king Sounds like from the reading ive done those are the best way to go with sd. Any suggestions between the 2. I've always heard good things about the accuracy of the sierras is there really any difference between the 2. Would on be considered the better for sd or are they pretty much the same. My barrel is a 1:7 twist is there any good arguments out there for going with the heavry bullet. They seem to cost a little more and from what im reading some people like the lighter ones better. Not sure why im leaning away from the heavier. |
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"Maybe you're not looking for an expanding bullet?"
I dunno i looked at that best ammo for self defense thing and both of those bullets are on there. I guess maybe I was looking at that barrier penetration thing the wrong way though. I would like a good expanding bullet for self defense against a human size target but I dont want a soft point. Most of the ammo on that chart is already loaded ammo also it doesnt really talk much about reloading bullets. I pretty much want a bullet that is best for a shft of self defense. That dosent have a soft point. Its not my primary home defense wepons so i dont have to waorry about it going through the wall and into the nieghboors. Haha i know its a question that has many variables and comes from many different peoples opinions but after like three days of searching around I really havent came up with anything thats like yea thats what I want. Its funny i would think that its a pretty easy question im sure there tons of people out there that reload for the ar that want and have exactly what I looking for. I would think that with the ar that has a pretty straight forward purpose (plinking and target shooting aside) it would be pretty cut and dry what kind of bullet is best for self defense. |
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I could never get the 68 gr Hornady to shoot in my AR's.
The 69 gr Sierra with the same load is very accurate for me. Some posters have reported good results with the 68 gr Hornady, you might have to try both to see what your rifle likes. But start with the Sierra. You are posting your questions in the correct Forum. 
Don't let anyone talk you out of reloading 7.62x39. It's an easy caliber to load. 
I also load steel Berdan Cases. 
With home cast bullets too. |
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nice thanks for the advice I just realized I have a box of 69gr Sierra's so i think im going to start with that. I made a load last year for my mini-14 and the 65gr sierra sptbt Gameking is what i ended going with (or was the most accurate I just dont like the soft point being that is sem-auto.)
But yea its nice to see someone loading the 7.62 I plan on working up loads for my SKS, AR-15, and my PTR-91 this winter. Plenty to keep me busy. Do you only use berdin primed brass for the 7.62. If not what do you use or recommend? Ive been looking for somewhere to get some once fired brass for mine but i dont want to use the berdin stuff. I almost got some imi stuff last year but it was a little to pricey. It seems like even the few places i found that sell the once fired stuff are still over priced. |
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nice thanks for the advice I just realized I have a box of 69gr Sierra's so i think im going to start with that. I made a load last year for my mini-14 and the 65gr sierra sptbt Gameking is what i ended going with (or was the most accurate I just don't like the soft point being that is sem-auto.) But yea its nice to see someone loading the 7.62 I plan on working up loads for my SKS, AR-15, and my PTR-91 this winter. Plenty to keep me busy. Do you only use Berdan primed brass for the 7.62. If not what do you use or recommend? I've been looking for somewhere to get some once fired brass for mine but i don't want to use the Berdan stuff. I almost got some imi stuff last year but it was a little to pricey. It seems like even the few places i found that sell the once fired stuff are still over priced. The first pic with the 550, that is new IMI Boxer cases from Wideners. That was in '09, They haven't had any since. Think they were $160 ish per k. Winchester is available for a little over $20 for 50 cases. Expensive. All of my Boxer brass is loaded, so for shooting ammo I use the free Berdan cases. No tragedy if you lose one. If you find Boxer brass cheaper than Winchester, I would buy it. I use the Berdan cases because I stocked up on Berdan primers when they were available a couple of years ago. Got some more comming, I will post a pic when they come in. From where? I posted my source in the "where to find components" tacked thread near the top of the page. Pg 28 IIRC. Here is a link to my Loading Berdan Primed Cases. thread if you are interested. |
| I believe Hornady's 75 grain hpbt match bullet is the current winner in ballistic gelatine from a .223, according to Doc (San Diego Dentist and ballistic expert). Anyone who thinks that ANY bullet fired from a highpower rifle is insufficient for self defense reads too many magazines. |
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