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Posted: 9/18/2011 7:13:34 AM EDT
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Hey guys, I am not new to AR's, but new to rifle reloading. Actually, I am still looking at what setup I am going to get. This leads me to a couple of questions.
1. Not needing super high capacity, I am looking at the RCBS Rockchucker press, or the Dillon, that is similar. Any other reccomendations? Any opinions for the 2? I am going to be loading .223, 9mm, .45, .308. I would just appreciate learing from those that have wisdom to offer on this. 2. In looking at some of the bullets that I wanna stock up on, I see the 75 gr. A-Max. I seem to remember that it may be too long to use as a magazine length round. Is this true? Or can it be loaded to reliably function in an AR, via the magazines? Thank you guys for any help that you may be able to provide. I appreciate it. 9080 Out |
| For your first rifle press a single stage like the Rockchucker is great, for handgun loads not so much. Handguns take a few more steps than your basic rifle round, this is were a progressive or Turret press comes in handy. I'm not a fan of new handloaders starting out with Progressives, so that leaves the Turret press. YMMV, but I would go nuts if I had to load all my handgun ammo on a single stage. |
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Starting out reloading I would recommend a single stage press UNTILL you are familiar with each step of the reloading process. If you want to move up to a progressive at a later date you will have the knowledge to know how and what to watch.
All I have ever used in 30 years is a RCBS single stage. Welcome to reloading! You have no Idea what you are getting into. You will spend your kids enheritence buying equipment and components. You will have hours of enjoying a hobby that will have a payoff at the end. VERY accurate ammo and you can tell yourself "I put that together." |
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Use Hornady's 75 grain hpbt match bullet for magazine loads, the A-max is for loading one at a time only.
Any quality cast iron single stage press will serve you well until the day you die. I suggest the RockChucker, Redding's Boss or Lee's Classic Cast (Lee's is around $80.00 delivered from www.factorysales.com). |
| I was recently in your same situation. After doing a LOT of research and looking at several forums I chose the RL550B. Even though I am pretty new to reloading, it is easy to setup and use. I am able to work up single loads, if needed, or process batches easily. The guys at Dillon were pretty good at customer service and only selling me what I needed. One of the things that I really like about the Dillon progressive is the ability to switch to a new caliber very quickly. You just need to switch out the tool holder, powder, and shellplates. The single stage presses are great for more precision, but you have to change and adjust the dies for each stage of the reloading process. With that in mind, you do still need to reload in stages with the Dillon. For example, I clean the brass, then lube for the size and decap. Then I clean the lube off before trimming. Once the brass is prepped, I am able to cycle through the progressive part of reloading easily. Once the dies are set in the tool holder though, they are good to go. Don't be intimidated by the progressive press. It is not as hard to use as you might think. |
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I too am fairly new to reloading so I don't know a whole lot. I would however share some newbie insight with you. Starting single stage is good. I was overwhelmed by all the processes involved. I just thought I could walk up to a press and start manufacturing ammunition. Boy was I in for a surprise ! Who would have thunked each die had to be tuned to shell plate and cartridge oal ? Sure glad I started single stage so's I could take the time to understand the operational aspect of each die. I just thought you screwed dies in and they worked.
Recently upgraded to progressive press. Understanding how each die worked allowed me to install and tune dies to each other. This way dies work in harmony and not disturbing operation of other dies. It was also a good idea having thought a ways down road to future press. Nobody I know loads everything single stage forever. I wanted my first press to be same brand as 2nd press. Don't remember the guys name who said it but remember a line of his. Brand X press, use Brand X dies. He had another sayin he used to say. Brand X bullets require use of Brand X manual. I thought the guy was a Dick at first. Who needs manuals when I can log in here and get charge weights from my Arfcom buddies. I soon discovered that ain't too good an idea. Good way to tear up a gun. Trust but verify. Turns out, there's a lot of information in them books that newbies need to know about reloadin. Stuff like set-up, theory, tuning, component selection. There's also some good information in linked threads and gateway threads. Lots and lots of stuff. Well that's all for now, gotta run. Do your homework, think smart, know what your budget is and select equipment you can afford. That ways you can buy components, keep the wife happy, clothe kids and not break the bank. Reload smart and safe ! Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Yes reloading manuals are a must. They have all of the info in one place and info you would not think about looking up on your own. Like do you know about case head separation? Do you know what to look for, signs just before case head separation? And what is the correct dimensions of the brass cartridge? And how long is the cartridge and bullet when properly seated. Mind you, if you know what you are doing and loading in single shot mode. You do not need to seat the bullet all of he way back. This is what I do when loading my 50 BMG and my 30-06 rounds. I am just about .02" off of my leads / lands. But you need to know the max brass length and recommended trim length.
Get a good manual that explains what happens if you do not trim your brass and it engages the leads. How this will cause a MAJOR crimp on the bullet and how a safe powder charge will now blow your rifle up cause you got careless or in a hurry and forgo trimming the brass. And how seating depth can cause an explosion also. Why you want to roll crimp rounds like the 357 or 44 mag to keep the bullet from seating deeper cause of recoil. The loading manuals are choked full of good info. and if not a loading manual then there is a book called the 123s of reloading. It should be mandatory reading of all reloading newbies. BTW 1911, I too just stepped over to the dark side with a Hornady LNL AP. Took a bit to get things tuned up. But now got the rhythm of load shell, put bullet on next to go into seater. Pull back, check powder cop, push up and go past neutral to seat new primer. Pull back slightly and restart the process. Sure is a bit different from a single stage. I still stop every so often and pull the charged shell out and check the powder charge all the same. Just want to make sure that the charge is not creeping up. I just wish there was a way to confirm that a primer was seated. Had a couple rounds drip in the finish bin w/o primer and powder spilled all over the press and bin. |
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All good advice. With one exception. I am not from the Brand X dies for Brand X press school.
That has no basis since the real choices between dies and presses have to do with other parameters. Threadwork and shell holders are standard to work with any press, not matched to a particular brand. Nothing wrong with getting dies and presses from one brand, but if someone gives you a different brand or a different brand has the features you need, don't think that it won't work with a standard press. In terms of forward thinking, I tell beginners to think twice, but, once they know they have made the decision that reloading is for them, they should think long term. Get the best books and tools you can afford. Those tools will likely go to your heirs, so don't make yourself miserable up front by making every decision about economy. Get tools with good capabilities. It takes a little research, but some tools are common for good reasons. Not every expensive tool is a good value, but then, not every cheap tool is either.... Assume there is a purpose to the single stage tools if you have any interest in performance at all. If you don't care about performance or development, then you only need basic single stage tools. The difference is hard to explain in some ways, but if you know you are just about plinking then you don't need the best single stage tools. If you know you are going to try and do better than the cheapest bulk ammo, then go ahead and invest in yourself. As for starting out with the Dillon and skipping the single stage, it won't take you long if you have the resources and shoot very much to learn the ropes and want the progressive. But don't skip the learning curve, it isn't smart to jump straight into bulk loading till you know what you are doing. It took me very few trips to the pistol range while using single stage methods to learn about straight wall cases and reloading. (From that point, it wasn't a stretch to load shot shells single stage either.) I was very young and there were many experienced old timers watching over me.... After understanding safety, the second most valuable advice I can give you is to get with experienced mentors. If you can learn from shooters who do the things you want to do and they are reloading, you will learn faster and with less pain. The very next steps were to go progressive and by that point I had moved away and was on my own. It took very little for me to jump into progressive by having a solid single stage background. When I found myself 2000 miles away and starting over from scratch, I still went after the Rockchucker first. As money and time permits, you will find yourself adding tools and capability. You will find many of the single stage tools are required to support the progressive loading anyway. The main driver for how long between the two stages of your learning curve is experience and money. If you have the ability to try closed loop learning quickly, and the money to add equipment as you go, it won't take you long to get into progressive reloading of centerfire or shot shells at all. It is really dependant on how fast your shooting drives your learning curve. So lets assume you will only stay with a single stage method to learn the ropes while you go progressive. Then the thing to do is to make sure your case cleaning methods are oriented toward bulk volume up front. Get a bigger tumbler for example. Decide on how you will trim. If you will go with the Dillon 550, you will need to set up an efficient case prep method up front. The 650 allows the option to trim on the machine, etc. But, if you have no background in trimming with a hand crank or a Giraud, then jumping into the automatic process is difficult. If you want a small batch of something else, you are not equipped. Silhouette for example, demands shooting in some volume out past 300 yards, so you learn fast. This can be handled in single stage fashion for the most part. Later on, if you start playing with Garands or wanting to bulk load for gas guns, then progressives invariably come up. A single session of silhouette requires 40 rounds plus sighters. The turkeys and rams are demanding. Those demands force you to learn about performance in your ammo and thus your reloading. Some forms of pistol shooting require bucket loads of good ammo for a single day. It doesn't take long if you are in those sports to want to learn to bulk load good ammo. For that matter, most shotgun sports go a box at a time, so with the volume and costs of good ammo, a progressive comes up quickly. There are more good tools in your time than there were in mine. The way life works, unless you are a trust fund baby, you have to think a little as you spend. Education isn't cheap, but not getting one costs you even more. Take your time and ask questions if you need help. Just learn to keep it safe up front since getting that step out of order is priceless. |
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Quoted:
He had another sayin he used to say. Brand X bullets require use of Brand X manual. I thought the guy was a Dick at first. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I'm new to this reloading gig, and have started out by doing what I quoted above in blue. My question is what do guys use for data when they buy bullets from a company that doesn't publish a reloading manual? Do they recommend loads for their bullets? |
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Match as best you can to other data. Use 1/32nd rule. That is distant from ogive to case mouth be no less than 1/32nd of an inch. Back lead and plated charge weights off 10% from jacketed data. Read gateway threads, specifically page 2. Half way down is a thread in my block titled, "why loading.45acp is different from loading 9mm". Especially if loading .45acp. Thread is a good read for all pistol loaders for referencing different types of bullets. Know difference between bnlswc and lswc if loading lead. Knowing seat height and identifying suggested oal between these two is important.
eta: addressing Region Rats post. My suggesting Brand X dies for Brand X press is simple. I started with Lee presses so naturally I bought Lee dies for each caliber until loading .40 cal. For whatever reason you couldn't steel a set of .40 in Lee so I bought a set of Hornady New Dimension dies. Nice dies, look sharp, quality machining. Installed in Lee Loadmaster, worked but experienced occasional alignment issues. Issues that my Lee dies didn't have. Fast forward today. In addition to having 4 Lee presses, 2 Hornady's and 2 Dillons. I've mismatched dies to presses and the only thing I've managed to do is piss myself off. Sure a Lee die will work in Hornady press and Hornady die in Dillon press but they don't align perfectly every time. So in summary. Overlook some alignment issues, experience a little frustration maybe one handle pull in twenty or use proprietary tooling. Choice is yours. I just don't have the patience I used to have. When I sit down to load machine had better be right. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted:
Also, you should be fine with the 75gr bullets. 77gr bullets will fit in a magazine and feed with no problems. It's only when you get to 80 gr that the loaded cartridge OAL is too long for the mag. Hornady's 75 grain .224 A-max will not fit and feed from a magazine. It's in the same class as 80 grain .224 bullets. |
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I have always recommended a single stage to start with, but I would recommend a Forster Coaxial press or a Hornady single-stage with the Lock-N-Load system of bushings. I think Lee has a similar system out now also, but I have no experience with it. Their new cast-iron press looks pretty nice.
You screw the dies into the bushing to the correct depth, tighten the lock ring, and you never need to re-set it. It's always set properly every time you remove and replace it in the press, via the Lock-N-load bushing. The Forster works in similar fashion, but doesn't require special bushings. The lock ring itself indexes the die within the press body. It's an expensive piece of fine machinery, though. |
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