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Posted: 9/2/2011 10:45:14 AM EDT
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I need a small quantity of #6 or #7 shot for some shot shell loads. A half-cup or so will do. Anyone who can supply? I will cover postage, Removed dryflash3.
Please use IM's for this. WTB threads should go into the EE. Thanks. |
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The 7.5 would do it!
I plan to load up some more .357 and some .45 ACP loads. I plan to use .357 capsules for the .38 Special and some .44 Magnum capsules for the .45 ACP. (Alternatively, on the .45 I'll use some cardboard wads, and soft-glue the top wad to hold it in place.) I doubt the shot will cycle the .45 action but it isn't supposed to. |
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Quoted:
[rl=http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Ammo/P6170061.jpg]http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Ammo/P6170061.jpg[/url] Speer makes the plastic capsules. [rl=http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Ammo/P7260260.jpg]http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg272/dryflash3/Ammo/P7260260.jpg[/url] 44 mag also. I can't stop looking at the picture  thank you for the info.
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Not trying to be rude or trolling. But why don't you just cut open a couple of shotgun shells? I was wanting some #12 shot for the same purpose as you and couldn't find any. I ended up ordering some Rio brand shells from Cheaper Than Dirt.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM811-5.html |
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Quoted: I've heard of someone using 30-06 cases for .45 shotshells. Anyone else heard of this? I've heard of using cut down 30-06 brass for .45 acp and .45 super cases, but not for shotshells. ...like cutting them long and crimping them like a blank? I could see it working, but the amount of work to prepare a single case might be too much. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I've heard of someone using 30-06 cases for .45 shotshells. Anyone else heard of this? I've heard of using cut down 30-06 brass for .45 acp and .45 super cases, but not for shotshells. ...like cutting them long and crimping them like a blank? I could see it working, but the amount of work to prepare a single case might be too much. I think they cut it down a little shorter than a .45 round, then rounded the end a little so it would feel better. Like you said, though... prep time would be prohibitive. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I've heard of someone using 30-06 cases for .45 shotshells. Anyone else heard of this? I've heard of using cut down 30-06 brass for .45 acp and .45 super cases, but not for shotshells. ...like cutting them long and crimping them like a blank? I could see it working, but the amount of work to prepare a single case might be too much. i remember and still have the article form the 1980's it was Handloader they used .308 brass the extraction groove matches the .45 better and there is less to remove. a cut down .410 wad and a gas check for the end crimped in place. The upside was that they would cycle a stock 1911 |
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I'm glad this came up. I bought a box of the capsules to load .38 shotshells a while back, but haven't loaded them up since I didn't want to buy a bag of shot just to use a handfull.
I was considering using #10 shot, but if #7 or #8 works just as well, I may just cut open a couple 12ga shotshells and use that. |
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The following article came from a now-defunct website (http://www.aement.com/articles/45shot.htm), I happened to store a copy on my harddrive. It's a good read. This same website also offered an article titled .45 Long Colt MAGNUM Shotshell!
************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************* A .45 ACP Shotshell that DOESN’T Jam!!! It was another beautiful day at the range. The temperature was in the mid-60’s; no wind; not a cloud in the sky. Just another harsh winter day in South Carolina. I was just setting up at the public range provided by the South Carolina Wildlife Department at Huger (pronounced Hue-gee) when my friend Mike Roberts called my attention to a fellow shooting clay birds thrown from a hand trap. He was averaging two to three shots per throw, so that will give you an idea of his success rate. But, then again, that’s the only way to get better. Practice, and then practice some more. “We haven’t done that in a long time.”, Mike said. I could tell from the way Mike was watching that he was dying to give this shooter a few pointers on how to improve his score, but here in the swamps of the South, you don’t offer advice unless it’s asked for; an axiom that usually makes for a calmer day, if followed. We chatted idly with my son-in-law, Kevin, about how good we were at trap shooting and embellished rather liberally on our skills. Kevin is used to this and his automatic bull-filter was firmly in place. His only remark was, “When are we going to do this, then?” We were now caught flat-footed. All three of us had been working for several months on developing consistent target loads for our handguns and had given no thought to shot-gunning in any form. After several minutes of weaseling, we postponed any decision until after our work at the range was done and got down to business. On the drive home, I brought up the article on Ad Topperwein that’s in the 1999 Edition of the Shooter’s Bible. I tried to relay the events that led up to his “discovery” by P.T. Barnum and how the trick shooters of the time were using shot from their pistols instead of lead bullets like Ad did. One thing led to another and we started discussing how much fun it would be to try shooting clay pigeons with a .45 ACP. I had a few of the old military survival M15 shotshells, so we decided to give it a try. On our next trip to the range, I fired several of the M15’s to get a pattern and found that they wouldn’t feed from the magazine consistently and stove-piped while trying to eject. A repeat effort with the new CCI aluminum-cased model gave essentially the same result. Thinking that perhaps my .45 was a “picky eater”, as my mother used to say, the same tests were repeated on Kevin’s government model 1911A1. The results were only marginally better. It didn’t tax our thought process too much to come to the sudden conclusion that we weren’t going to impress the locals with our shooting prowess with a gun that had to be constantly cleared of jams. A quick visit to our local gun shop and gossip emporium in nearby Goose Creek pointed out another major problem: cost. M15’s cost about $40.00 for a box of twenty! Suddenly, the CCI shotshells were no longer the ugly little sister! So, back to the range with a front pocket full of CCI shotshells and an empty back pocket. Six more .45’s were fed the CCI shotshells and the best performance we obtained was three out of five full cycles. Not near good enough for our purposes. A hastily-called conference with the usual suspects set the goals and agenda for the new project; (1) make a .45 ACP shotshell that will cycle as consistently as ball ammo, (2) construction cost per round was to be lower than M15’s, make’em reloadable. Seemed reasonable, so, armed with righteousness, we marched off into the wildcat wonderland that has eaten so many past efforts, hopes and dreams. Our first item was to determine what components were used to make the old M15. I soon discovered that tracking down this information at Remington was a major effort in itself. After a half-dozen telephone calls to many different states, I finally spoke with George Sevall, the very knowledgeable manager at Remington’s ammunition plant in Arkansas. He had no records of the actual components other than remembering a horsehair wad, but said that he remembered an article in a gun magazine several years ago that covered the topic. He promised to look it up at home and send me a copy. A very nice gesture that I quickly equated to the “kiss-off”. Less than a week later, I had the article in my hot little hands! I was, and still am, very grateful to George for his honesty and integrity. After reading “Shotloads for Handguns” by C.E.Harris, I immediately ordered the case forming and shotshell reloading dies and a gob of Remington .410 wads. Several anxious days went by and then UPS made me the proud owner of RCBS Shotshell dies! Out to the garage I went and case-forming .308 Winchester cases into .45 ACP Shotshell cases became as common every evening as the nightly news. What came next were several abortive attempts at the range, where every combination recommended by Mr. Harris’ article failed to consistently cycle the weapons we owned. Again, our best results were three complete cycles out of a clip of five. Four hundred rounds and two months later, we finally have a round that cycles every time in every .45 we own or have come across. Many lessons have been learned: some very evident and others rather obscure. Each reloader must come to the nexus as to what works best in his own weapon and worry less about “Bubba’s”. Assume nothing; including the feeling that published data is correct and all knowing (including this one!). Once this Rubicon is crossed, the job becomes easier. It has been stated that only .308 Winchester cases and its derivatives can be used for .45 shotshells because the extractor groove of .30-06 Springfield cases, and derivatives, is too narrow. The logic behind this is that the narrower extractor groove of the ’06 may cause the extractor of the .45 to break during firing. Now, I’ll be the first to admit that the difference between the extractor groove of the .308 and the .30-06 is readily apparent, even to those of us whose eyesight has become age-challenged. However, the dimensions given by SAAMI show this in a slightly different light, as shown in Table 1 below. ___________Rim Dia._Rim Len._Groove Dia._Groove Len._Bevel Len .45 ACP ____0.480___0.049____0.400______0.035_______0.076 .308 Win____.0.473___0.054____0.409______0.055_______0.058 .30-06______0.473___0.049____0.409______0.033_______0.056 Table 1 – Case Head Measurements The rim diameter of the .308 and the .30-06 are the same; 0.473”. Both of which are 0.007” smaller than the .45 ACP. As I have fired the .45 shotshell made from the .308 casing and it extracted just fine, the difference in diameter doesn’t matter to the extractor. The .45 and the .30-06 have the same rim length, but the .308 rim length is 0.005” longer. Still, no extractor problem, so it obviously reaches out far enough to allow for this. The first big test comes with the length of the extractor groove which, when measured from the front of the rim is 0.035” on the .45 and 0.033” on the .30-06. The .308 is a whopping 0.055”! The length of the bevel from the extractor groove to the case body is a big 0.076” on the .45 and both rifle cartridges fall short of this mark. Now, if you add the lengths of the extractor groove and the length of the bevel, you come up with 0.111” on the .45, 0.113” on the .308, but only 0.089” on the .30-06. This is the dimension that the claw of the extractor will go into. If your extractor can catch hold of the rim of the .30-06 without putting undue stress on the claw of the extractor, then you can use the .30-06 brass. Take a few minutes and measure the length of your extractor claw. On your bench, hook it into the extractor groove of each case. How does it fit? It’s your call. The formed case comes out of the RCBS die at 1.195” (±0.005”). Deburr and campher the inside of the neck and then devote a little time to the primer pocket. If the case was military, you will have to remove the primer crimp in addition to the usual cleaning of the pocket itself. There’s really no need to worry about uniforming the primer pocket or removing any burrs from the flash hole. Let’s face it; we’re making a shotshell, not a benchrest round. Now your case is ready for the polisher to remove the sizing wax or lube. I took the extra step of sizing them again in the sizing die of the loading set before starting that process. I think there’s a difference worth having, but I wouldn’t swear to it. The article suggested that large rifle primers should be used in the .45 shotshell to insure proper ignition. Now, it’s always been drummed into me that a rifle primer is much hotter than a pistol primer because it’s supposed to launch a flame into a longer powder column. Slap me if I’m wrong, but the .45 shotshell has less room for powder than a standard .45 ACP, once you account for the wad and shot column. So the powder column is shorter than the regular pistol load and, on top of that, you press the wad down on top of the powder (the article suggests the use of a small hammer), which ensures 100% load density regardless of the amount of powder used. Armed with logic, I elected to use large pistol primers. After all, who wants to set the wad on fire! Mr. Harris stated in his article that 6.2-grains of Winchester 231 powder worked best, even though he tried DuPont 700X, Bullseye, Red Dot, Green Dot and Unique powders as well. I guess I’m a slow learner because I tried all of those as well, plus H-110, HS-6, HP38 and Herco. He was right; W-W 231 works best. I tried various charges and found that 6.0-grains of 231 worked best in my pistol. It burned cleaner, actually no residue, and still provided good down range coverage and enough recoil for the extraction/ejection process…usually. At 6.2-grains, I experienced 60 – 80% stovepipes. This really shocked me as I felt that the additional powder would kick the case out quicker and the number of stovepipes would decrease. Mr. Harris pointed this out in his article. Extra powder beyond what is needed to get the job done just causes the roll-crimped case mouth to extend into the rifling of the barrel and makes extraction more difficult. Continuing with the loading, I cut the Remington SP410 shot cup at a length of 0.725-inches. Now, before we get real picky, let’s remember what we’re making here. The way I came up with this measurement was by dropping the right amount of powder into a case and then pushing the shot cup down over the powder with a wooden dowel. Once seated, I marked the shot cup where it met the case mouth, then pulled it back out of the case. I then used a pair of scissors to cut it just a wee-bit shorter and measured it with my caliper for you all. Darned if it didn’t come out to be 0.725-inches. I marked out this length on the lid of a set of dies and used a razor knife to cut the rest of them. I switched to the razor knife because I kept cutting the shot cup in a slight curve when using the scissors. Character flaw, I guess. Anyway, I wouldn’t want to take any bets on how many came out to be exactly 0.725-inches in length. Probably just the first one, but the intent was honest. I elected not to hammer in the shot cup, but to push it down on top of the powder with the wooden dowel I mentioned earlier. The reason for this is because the plastic shot cup will spring back somewhat before you can get the shot in and crimp it down. Now came the shot. I measured the shot pretty much the same way the shot cup was measured. No, not with calipers, but by filling up the shot cup with shot, then pouring it into the powder scale measuring pan and weighing it. If you use #8-shot, you can expect it to run about 91-grains and be about 60 pellets, by count. I don’t know how much good that information will do you in loading the shot shell, as I just scoop up shot with the case. The final stage is getting the shot to stay in place. I tried the inverted .35-caliber gas check as described by Mr. Harris. In fact, I’ve used this method for years making shot shells for the .357 Magnum. They work real nice on the soft, marshy ground here in the South. That didn’t turn out to be the case with the .45 ACP. When fired at a target at 10-feet, there was a hole in the pattern and it repeated each time a gas check was used. I happened to have some old Alcan .410 over-shot cards left over from my salad years and used them as an alternative. Just as effective would be to use a sharpened length of half-inch copper tubing and punch out over-shot cards from a waxed milk carton. Either way, press the over-shot card down on top of the shot until it’s inside the mouth of the case. The wooden dowel comes in handy here. Then run the whole she-bang through the seating die to put a moderate to heavy roll crimp on it and you’re done. Now you know how we made the first .45 ACP shot shells. Did they work? Well, they went bang and shot hit the target, but we stove-piped about 50% of the time! That’s when we started messing around with the amount and type of powder. We succeeded in making the stove-piping worse, but not better. Have you ever had those days where you can see the same thing, over and over and still not see what’s going on? That was us. In spades. After burning up a passel of wads, shot and powder, not to mention enough gasoline going to and from the range to make the average sheik smile like a cat, we finally noticed what was really happening with the stove-piped cases. The case mouth was catching on the slide ejector port. Out came the calipers and it was confirmed that the case length was almost the exact length of the ejection port on the slide. All it needed was a little more clearance! We cut back the case by 0.010-inches and loaded up ten rounds. Same problem. We shortened it up by another 0.005-inches and Viola!… they cleared the ejection port every time! We were so pleased with ourselves; we made up a hundred rounds and tested them over and over. Not a single stovepipe. Not a single jam. Not a single failure to feed from the magazine. To summarize our loading data: Case - .308 Winchester cut to 1.180 inches Wad – Remington SP410 cut to 0.725-inches (or thereabouts) Powder – WW231 – 6.0-grains Primer – WLP (large pistol) Shot - #8 – about 91-grains Over-shot card or inverted .35-caliber gas check Reloading stories usually end right about here with tales of slaying snakes the size of a railroad tie or using it to stop the Brink’s bank robbery. Not this one. When our Texas friend Alvin visited us, we sidled over to the range and had one heck of a good time hand-tossing clay pigeons in the air and trying (and I stress trying) to hit them “on the wing”. Did we ever put on a show for the fellows at the Huger range? No. Did we spend a lot of money on dies, shot, wads, etc.? Oh, yeah! But we had a lot of fun and we learned a few things. And that’s what reloading is all about. |
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Thanks for posting the article. I just looked up the dies... $160+ per 3 die set and 90+ days to wait on them. (MidwayUSA) At roughly $2/shot for the factory stuff... Well, that's more math than I care to do at midnight. Suffice to say that the cost/round is slightly astronomical compared to my $0.07/round for my ACP loads. |
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frank:
I have a fair bit of experience with shotcaps, including both Speer's shot capsules as well as the over/underwad method. In my experience 7.5 is too large. You simply cannot get enough of them into the cartridge (especially .38, 9mm, etc) to get a pattern that isn't full of holes. I used 8's and, preferrably, 9's, and patterns were better. With a large capacity case like 44 special you can get acceptable patterns to about 20 feet. After that the patterns are so full of holes that a rabbit could sit in the pattern and not get hit. And this is with the more numerous #9. Cheapest place to get a small quantity of shot? Buy one box of cheapo shotgun shells, in appropriate size shot, and use an exacto to cut the shell open. Works for me |
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frank: I have a fair bit of experience with shotcaps, including both Speer's shot capsules as well as the over/underwad method. In my experience 7.5 is too large. You simply cannot get enough of them into the cartridge (especially .38, 9mm, etc) to get a pattern that isn't full of holes. I used 8's and, preferrably, 9's, and patterns were better. With a large capacity case like 44 special you can get acceptable patterns to about 20 feet. After that the patterns are so full of holes that a rabbit could sit in the pattern and not get hit. And this is with the more numerous #9. Cheapest place to get a small quantity of shot? Buy one box of cheapo shotgun shells, in appropriate size shot, and use an exacto to cut the shell open. Works for me Truth be told, these are for snake loads, not for birds or clays. 6-8 feet maximum distance; I like the larger shot size to penetrate the snake's skin. Thanks for the advice though! |
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Not only do you need the die set, but you also need the case forming set. Not cheap
I bought a set of these back in the '80's and loaded up an bunch, and still have some somewhere. They did cycle the 45 acp, but, looking at the shot patterns posted earlier, you can't get that much shot in the case. They do work on snakes, prepare for a follow up shot, and if you're really good an occasional close bird on the wing. 'Borg ETA; I used to work with Ollie Buschow, (the author), thats how I got started on the 45 shotshells. |
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