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Posted: 5/31/2011 7:46:41 PM EDT
| I just finished building a Mega MaTen 308 . I have a 24in 1x11 twist black hole weaponry barrel & need some loads to work with .I have a bunch of extra Sierra 168gr bthp's that I need too use up so I can start deciding what projectiles to start using .Any recipes will be greatly appreciated . |
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I just finished building a Mega MaTen 308 . I have a 24in 1x11 twist black hole weaponry barrel & need some loads to work with .I have a bunch of extra Sierra 168gr bthp's that I need too use up so I can start deciding what projectiles to start using .Any recipes will be greatly appreciated . Do you have load manuals? |
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41.5 gr. IMR 4895 and 168 gr SMK's
It is a very popular load, Check out Google |
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+1 on this load, it shoots great in my M14 and my buddys AR-10 |
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First pay attention to the details. Like which brass is used for the data source you choose to use! MAKES A LOT OF DIFFERNCE.
Simple equations....you do the leg work with your gun. But, I will help you out.... COAL with 30 cal 168 SMK 2.80. IMR 4895 with WLR Primers in prepped Mil Brass is a good start work up your load to 41.5gr Max. Varget with BR2 Primers in Win Brass work up to 46gr Max. RL 15 with Fed 210M Primers in Win Brass work up to 44gr Max. |
Not a typo but maybe should have said 3g less , if he is using mil brass and start load is 42g in the manual I would start at 38g and work up. My ar10 shows signs at 43g of varget, some of the loads posted would do bad things to my gun I have no doubt. The rule is 10% less for mil brass , so about 4g less. Most manuals are not using ar10's for testing or semi 308 and should not use the stated start load ihmo anyway . just think you should work up loads slowly and not use any that are just posted as is. for instance one of the links above points to this load which I would never try in a semi 308 without working up
that would be a bad thing to have someone try as a starting load in an unknown gun I would think. |
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This has been the safe go to load for M-14s for the 20+ years I've been shooting them.
Your search has ended! Quoted:
+1 on this load, it shoots great in my M14 and my buddys AR-10 |
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Dude,
Before you go off professing you're recipes are OK, you might want to check your data. The data in your "combos" aren't accurate. You say that 41.5 of IMR 4895 is a "Max" load. Sorry pal, that's bullshit. The 41.5 gr load of IMR 4895 with the LC case and a Sierra 168 has been the safe go to load of M-14 competitors for years and is nowhere near max. Hornady even states min load for the 308 Win with this powder is 41.0 and max 45.4C. Yes, you can adjust this data for mil versus commercial cases, but 41.5 isn't even close to "Max". From Hornady: 168 GR. SIE HPBT IMR IMR 4895 .308" 2.800" 41.0 2447 39,700 PSI 45.4C 2758 58,000 PSI If you go backing off of your 41.5 "Max" load by the 10% that so many manufacturers recommend for a starting point, you're going to be around 37.3 gr and that is 3.7gr below the minimum load starting point of 41.0 from Hornady. I won't even go into the hazards of starting below the minimum recommended charge. I gave the two previous observations of the 41.5 gr IMR 4985 a +1 and related my experience with this load for over 20 years. It is safe. As always, you have to work up your own loads for your own rifle. There are thousands of shooters across America that have used this load in competition and have used it SAFELY. You need to be more accurate in your posts and observations. You're going to get someone hurt. FYI, I wouldn't use anywhere near 46 gr of Varget with a 168 in an M-14. Chamber pressure isn't the issue. Port pressure is going to hurt the rifle and maybe yourself. U2AV8R Quoted:
NEVER EVER COPY CAT A LOAD! You must prove it by working up the load properly! There are no short cuts! Other then combos I posted...leaves you with the leg work. Quoted:
First pay attention to the details. Like which brass is used for the data source you choose to use! MAKES A LOT OF DIFFERNCE. Simple equations....you do the leg work with your gun. But, I will help you out.... COAL with 30 cal 168 SMK 2.80. IMR 4895 with WLR Primers in prepped Mil Brass is a good start work up your load to 41.5gr Max. Varget with BR2 Primers in Win Brass work up to 46gr Max. RL 15 with Fed 210M Primers in Win Brass work up to 44gr Max. |
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Dryflash3,
That would be the safest of the possible bad results. The worst would be a "detonation" of the powder instead of a burning. Starting below minimum recommended charges is going to hurt! You don't want a chamber det. It's going to leave a mark! Cheers, U2AV8R Quoted:
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start low and work up slowly with semi auto308 , I would start about 5g below started loads and work up. Not sure if this is a typo?? Do not load below the start load, especially 5 grains below start load. Unless you want to stick a bullet in the bore. |
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Quoted:
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I just finished building a Mega MaTen 308 . I have a 24in 1x11 twist black hole weaponry barrel & need some loads to work with .I have a bunch of extra Sierra 168gr bthp's that I need too use up so I can start deciding what projectiles to start using .Any recipes will be greatly appreciated . Do you have load manuals? AeroE had a valid question. You can take chances if you want, free country....but if you're not that experienced with this sort of thing, buy, borrow or steal the Sierra Manual, read the chapter on "Reloading for Semi-Autos and Service Rifles", then pick a starting load for your Sierra 168gr bthp's out of the manual and work up an accurate load. Pay close attention to to head spacing, shoulder setback,and powder burn rate (in the "Reloading for Semi-Autos and Service Rifles" article). Have a good time. Manuals provide the safe reference by which to check and compare anything you read here or anywhere else on the internet. Yes IMR 4895 is one of several good choices for powder for burn rate. 41.5gr. depends on the rifle and the cases you use. BTW, you can also read that same chapter at Sierra's Exterior Ballistics Web Site |
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Dude, Before you go off professing you're recipes are OK, you might want to check your data. The data in your "combos" aren't accurate. You say that 41.5 of IMR 4895 is a "Max" load. Sorry pal, that's bullshit. The 41.5 gr load of IMR 4895 with the LC case and a Sierra 168 has been the safe go to load of M-14 competitors for years and is nowhere near max. Hornady even states min load for the 308 Win with this powder is 41.0 and max 45.4C. Yes, you can adjust this data for mil versus commercial cases, but 41.5 isn't even close to "Max". From Hornady: 168 GR. SIE HPBT IMR IMR 4895 .308" 2.800" 41.0 2447 39,700 PSI 45.4C 2758 58,000 PSI If you go backing off of your 41.5 "Max" load by the 10% that so many manufacturers recommend for a starting point, you're going to be around 37.3 gr and that is 3.7gr below the minimum load starting point of 41.0 from Hornady. I won't even go into the hazards of starting below the minimum recommended charge. I gave the two previous observations of the 41.5 gr IMR 4985 a +1 and related my experience with this load for over 20 years. It is safe. As always, you have to work up your own loads for your own rifle. There are thousands of shooters across America that have used this load in competition and have used it SAFELY. You need to be more accurate in your posts and observations. You're going to get someone hurt. FYI, I wouldn't use anywhere near 46 gr of Varget with a 168 in an M-14. Chamber pressure isn't the issue. Port pressure is going to hurt the rifle and maybe yourself. U2AV8R Quoted:
NEVER EVER COPY CAT A LOAD! You must prove it by working up the load properly! There are no short cuts! Other then combos I posted...leaves you with the leg work. Quoted:
First pay attention to the details. Like which brass is used for the data source you choose to use! MAKES A LOT OF DIFFERNCE. Simple equations....you do the leg work with your gun. But, I will help you out.... COAL with 30 cal 168 SMK 2.80. IMR 4895 with WLR Primers in prepped Mil Brass is a good start work up your load to 41.5gr Max. Varget with BR2 Primers in Win Brass work up to 46gr Max. RL 15 with Fed 210M Primers in Win Brass work up to 44gr Max. rn22723's comments aren't directed at you, they're directed at noob's looking for short cuts instead of doing the leg work on their own. Sometimes caustic advice, but I've never seen him lead anyone astray with bad advice. |
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Ok, fine, here is the responsibility disclaimer. Pepe-lepew is not responsible for the data published here. All loads published here, by pepe-lepew, are for cautious hand loaders only. Pepe-lepew provides this data as a reference of what has worked for him. Do not use this load data unless you have cross checked it with powder, and bullet manufactures data and worked your test loads up to it. Providing data of personal experience can help others reduce the time and cost of finding their best personal load. Don't load irresponsibly and ruin it for everyone. |
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The load the pepe posted is a very popular load for the M14/M1A. However, it's on the hot side for my DPMS 16" .308 carbine. Pretty much anything much over start loads shows pressure signs in my rifle.
Play it safe. don't rely on what you find posted here or any other gun board. There are no short cuts. Everybody needs to find out what works for them and their equipment. |
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41.5 grains of IMR-4895 w/168 SMK's is an over pressure load when using Lake City brass. It's a near duplicate of M852 which is also over pressure according to SAAMI standards. It is close to or at maximum when loaded in a Winchester commercial case.
The NRA conducted pressure tests using Lake City cases and Sierra match bullets. Wm. C. Davis Jr. conducted the tests and over 700 rounds were fired through a pressure gun. 40.5 grains of IMR-4895 was a SAAMI maximum loading when using GI brass, Winchester primers, and 168 SMK's seated to 2.800". Issue M852 and M118 ammo when fired through the same pressure gun both showed SAAMI + 3500 c.u.p. over pressure. While this is not enough to damage a rifle, it will cause a little more wear and tear over it's life. The bedding will need skim coating sooner. I personally witnessed an M1-A rear receiver break off the day before the 1994 AWB went in effect! My friend had routinely loaded 41.5 grains of 4895/168 SMK's in LC cases and the bolt hammering the rear of the receiver during recoil broke it completely off. The entire rear 2" of the receiver behind the rear sight just broke off. 41.5 grains is an absolute maximum load provided you understand everything I've just posted. It is not a load to shoot unless it actually shoots tighter groups than everything else you tried working up to it. I use 40.5 grains of IMR-4895 or 41.0 grains of IMR-4064 in my rifles when loading 168's in LC brass. |
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+1 on this load, it shoots great in my M14 and my buddys AR-10 I should add that I load this in winchester and R/P brass, I have not used any LC or other Mil brass. |
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I just finished building a Mega MaTen 308 . I have a 24in 1x11 twist black hole weaponry barrel & need some loads to work with .I have a bunch of extra Sierra 168gr bthp's that I need too use up so I can start deciding what projectiles to start using .Any recipes will be greatly appreciated . Do you have load manuals? AeroE had a valid question. You can take chances if you want, free country....but if you're not that experienced with this sort of thing, buy, borrow or steal the Sierra Manual, read the chapter on "Reloading for Semi-Autos and Service Rifles", then pick a starting load for your Sierra 168gr bthp's out of the manual and work up an accurate load. Pay close attention to to head spacing, shoulder setback,and powder burn rate (in the "Reloading for Semi-Autos and Service Rifles" article). Have a good time. Manuals provide the safe reference by which to check and compare anything you read here or anywhere else on the internet. Yes IMR 4895 is one of several good choices for powder for burn rate. 41.5gr. depends on the rifle and the cases you use. BTW, you can also read that same chapter at Sierra's Exterior Ballistics Web Site Yes I have several load manuals , but the recipes never tend to reflect what type of weapon I'm loading for that why I was asking for some ar308 type recipes to start from . |
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I just finished building a Mega MaTen 308 . I have a 24in 1x11 twist black hole weaponry barrel & need some loads to work with .I have a bunch of extra Sierra 168gr bthp's that I need too use up so I can start deciding what projectiles to start using .Any recipes will be greatly appreciated . Do you have load manuals? AeroE had a valid question. You can take chances if you want, free country....but if you're not that experienced with this sort of thing, buy, borrow or steal the Sierra Manual, read the chapter on "Reloading for Semi-Autos and Service Rifles", then pick a starting load for your Sierra 168gr bthp's out of the manual and work up an accurate load. Pay close attention to to head spacing, shoulder setback,and powder burn rate (in the "Reloading for Semi-Autos and Service Rifles" article). Have a good time. Manuals provide the safe reference by which to check and compare anything you read here or anywhere else on the internet. Yes IMR 4895 is one of several good choices for powder for burn rate. 41.5gr. depends on the rifle and the cases you use. BTW, you can also read that same chapter at Sierra's Exterior Ballistics Web Site Yes I have several load manuals , but the recipes never tend to reflect what type of weapon I'm loading for that why I was asking for some ar308 type recipes to start from . The Sierra article I referred you to talks about the type of weapon you are loading for....and has good suggestions about what powders are good for the action. The Sierra manual also describes .308 issues, such as the smaller volume in military brass, and the resultant higher pressures compared to commercial cases for a particular charge. You can also go to the Fulton Armory website and get some good advice. They are a manufacturer and therefore as expected, they go out of their way to discourage reloading, But, on the other hand, the "scare" tactics they use are valid. They underscore headspace, primer, and burn rate issues that have hurt or even killed people when ignored. The fact is loading for gas guns is not quite the same, nor as forgiving, as loading for bolt action sporters. That said it can still be a safe endeavor...if one pays attention to the advice given in the above mentioned sources. |
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What is a "Mega MaTen 308??
If it is a bolt gun then you can go on up a little in chamber pressure over what you would use for a M1A (piston / doglegged op rod). If it is a direct impingement (AR) autoloader design, then you can go up a little over what you would use for an M1A. 7zero1 (service rifle match shooter on here) turned me on to a good publication, "Semi-Auto Rifles Data & Comment" published by the NRA, third printing 1991, now out of print. I found a used copy on Amazon.com. Grab one if you can. It is chocked full of good info, including Military-like recipes. Looking at the tables for .308 loads intended for use in service rifles, using LC cases and 168 grain projos, the IMR4895 loads range from 38.5 to 41.5 grains. As to M1As losing the rear end of the receiver, improperly tuned, abused, or porous casting equipped M1As can do that from time to time. |
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