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Posted: 12/13/2010 8:11:52 AM EDT
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A guy next to me at the range was shooting .308 w/ LC brass and he didn't reload so he said I could have it. Some of the brass has the noraml LC 07 (or whatever year) and the Nato cross. Some of it has that and an LR also, so it says LC LR 07. What does the LR mean? Did it come from M118LR or something? If so, why different brass? Is there anything different between the regular LC 308 brass and the LR brass? Lastly, is there a general idea how much I need to knock off my charge from commercial brass? Or do I need ot start over from the begining and work up a load?
There were also some in there that said PMJ, is that South Korean stuff? |
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The quick way will be to weigh the LC LR brass to find out whether it has capacity similar to plain ol' LC. LC brass for .308 Win needs start loads down from commercial brass due to the reduced case capacity. As for the PMJ, whether to mess it depends on the number of cases. If there's a handful, I would chuck them into the scrap. |
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Quoted:
There is NO FORMULA! You have to rework your load up! No SHORT CUTS! LC LR...my guess is that is M118 LR brass. This is the 175gr OTM (Sierra MK) loaded for sniper and target use. I understand that, I was just curious as to about how much different they are. As for the LR brass, that is what I was thinking too, but I don't see why they would load it in different cases. Maybe they are different in some way, but I don't see why they would use a different headstamp, unless they are like the "premium" line, similar to the "benchrest" primers. Oh, and the PMJ brass is not pMC or PMP, it is PMJ and has the Nato cross on it. |
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There is NO FORMULA! You have to rework your load up! No SHORT CUTS! LC LR...my guess is that is M118 LR brass. This is the 175gr OTM (Sierra MK) loaded for sniper and target use. I understand that, I was just curious as to about how much different they are. As for the LR brass, that is what I was thinking too, but I don't see why they would load it in different cases. Maybe they are different in some way, but I don't see why they would use a different headstamp, unless they are like the "premium" line, similar to the "benchrest" primers. Oh, and the PMJ brass is not pMC or PMP, it is PMJ and has the Nato cross on it. Sir, the LC "LR" brass you have is M118LR brass, I've had my fair share of it and with the exception of the longitudinal markings around the shell near the web it's the same at the discontinued M852 brass that had the "NM" stamp in addition to LC and year. It is different than the Nato .308 brass mostly because it was not crimped IIRC. Case wall thickness is usually a bit thicker but I never let that hold me back. The MR, ie: 600/1K loads I made with the Sierra 175 gr SMK were pretty hot and chronographed about 2640fps from my M1As which matches the factory M118LR loads I tested. HTH, 7zero1. |
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There is NO FORMULA! You have to rework your load up! No SHORT CUTS! LC LR...my guess is that is M118 LR brass. This is the 175gr OTM (Sierra MK) loaded for sniper and target use. I understand that, I was just curious as to about how much different they are. As for the LR brass, that is what I was thinking too, but I don't see why they would load it in different cases. Maybe they are different in some way, but I don't see why they would use a different headstamp, unless they are like the "premium" line, similar to the "benchrest" primers. Oh, and the PMJ brass is not pMC or PMP, it is PMJ and has the Nato cross on it. Sir, the LC "LR" brass you have is M118LR brass, I've had my fair share of it and with the exception of the longitudinal markings around the shell near the web it's the same at the discontinued M852 brass that had the "NM" stamp in addition to LC and year. It is different than the Nato .308 brass mostly because it was not crimped IIRC. Case wall thickness is usually a bit thicker but I never let that hold me back. The MR, ie: 600/1K loads I made with the Sierra 175 gr SMK were pretty hot and chronographed about 2640fps from my M1As which matches the factory M118LR loads I tested. HTH, 7zero1. Thank you sir. |
| I feel pretty confident when I say 2.0 full grains less powder in Lake City brass will be pretty close to the velocity and pressures you got with Winchester brass. You can use Hornady's service rifle loads for .308, they are very close to what I see with my testing. |
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I have a bunch of PMJ .308 with the Nato cross, and my understanding is that it is S. Korean manufactured and supplied to US Forces...
http://www.jouster.com/forums/showthread.php?4540-7.62-Headstamp-ID |
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A discussion about brass brought up .308 LR stamped brass over at AR10T.com forums.I have never heard of it before and a
fellow had this to say about it. "Lake City brass available for reloading and sold as a loaded cartridge is machinegun brass.. Quality control is low because its not needed for machineguns and weight inconsistencies are normal. Do a complete runout on your brass after its fired and weigh each one. It might surprise you. Lake City stamped "LR" is their best .308 brass. The LR means Long Range. Its once fired brass collected by specialty sellers from Marine Sniper ranges. Currently the brass headstamped "o4" is the sought after LC/LR brass. LC will absolutely not perform anything like LR. We buy it when we can find it on very rare occasions, and we have a standing order with two of the most dependable buyers. Currently we have just over 3,000 LR's all headstamed '04 (2004), and it took quite some time to collect it. We seperate it all into "Once fired, Twice Fired" etc, containers so we can track the annealing requirements after four cycles.".... |
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A discussion about brass brought up .308 LR stamped brass over at AR10T.com forums.I have never heard of it before and a fellow had this to say about it. "Lake City brass available for reloading and sold as a loaded cartridge is machinegun brass.. Quality control is low because its not needed for machineguns and weight inconsistencies are normal. Do a complete runout on your brass after its fired and weigh each one. It might surprise you. Lake City stamped "LR" is their best .308 brass. The LR means Long Range. Its once fired brass collected by specialty sellers from Marine Sniper ranges. Currently the brass headstamped "o4" is the sought after LC/LR brass. LC will absolutely not perform anything like LR. We buy it when we can find it on very rare occasions, and we have a standing order with two of the most dependable buyers. Currently we have just over 3,000 LR's all headstamed '04 (2004), and it took quite some time to collect it. We seperate it all into "Once fired, Twice Fired" etc, containers so we can track the annealing requirements after four cycles.".... Interesting, thank you very much. |
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LC LR may be better brass than their standard 7.62x51mm, but I doubt it. In the past the only difference between the standard ammo and match was the headstamp. The brass was identical in every other way.
You could do a little testing if you really want to find out. Weigh the brass and record how much it weighs as well as the range of extremes. Measure case wall runout on loaded rounds using both types of brass. These two tests will seperate the ammo into two distinct categories, or it will basically show that they are equal to each other. I suspect the latter. |
| I did that, at least partly, although very quickly. The LR cases seemed to be about 2 grains heavier and more uniform. IIRC, I only weighed 4 cases because I was leaving. However, the 4 LC cases I believe were 176, 176, 175 and 171 grains. The 4 LC LR were all 177. Both held 51 grains of Varget, FWIW. I know this isn't a good comparison, but hey, I was in a hurry and it was all I could do at the time. I only have a handful of the LR cases, so I don't even have enough to do a thorough comparison. |
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