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Posted: 12/12/2010 8:43:47 PM EDT
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I'm interested to hear what products/equipment people use to trim. I've only tried using one of those hand trimmers, which was hell. I've heard the Gerard trimmers are good as well as the Dillon 1200 which size as they trim.
The reason I ask is because I'm thinking of getting a Dillon 1200 for Christmas. Let me hear your feedback! |
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I'm interested to hear what products/equipment people use to trim. I've only tried using one of those hand trimmers, which was hell. I've heard the Gerard trimmers are good as well as the Dillon 1200 which size as they trim. The reason I ask is because I'm thinking of getting a Dillon 1200 for Christmas. Let me hear your feedback! I have the Dillon 1200 on my Dillon 650. Quickest way to trim brass. Gives an amazingly accurate and consistent cut. I have also found there is no need to chamfer/debur. Nice clean cut. I find the 1200/650 combo the best way to trim brass. YMMV. |
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I'm fixing to buy a power trimmer also but don't know which one, the only reason I'm having to pass on the Dillon is they make a damn trim die for 6.8SPC that will only work with one special trimmer so I would have two buy two trimmers(and trim dies) to be able to trim 6.8SPC and .223 so after all that cost adds up the Giraud trimmer comes out much cheaper.
Dillon RT-1200 6.8 trimmer #22034, $229.00 Dillon 6.8 Trim die #16391, $54.95 Dillon RT-1200 Trimmer #22080, $224.95 Dillon .223 Trim die #21363, $45.95 Total just to trim .223 & 6.8 using Dillon RT Trimmers $555.00+ Giraud Power Case Trimmer Complete, .223 Remington CT223 $425.00 Additional Case Holder for any of the calibers listed above (6.8SPC) $30.00 Total to trim .223 & 6.8 using the Giraud $455.00+ So there is about $100 difference there but I wounder if having the two dedicated Dillon trimmers would be better in the long run since they would never need adjusted, just screw it in the press, turn it on and trim the caliber of choice. As long as it's a smooth even(very consistent .001" or less like a lathe trimmer) cut I'm not really worried about the chamfer and deburr since I use a trim mate with the best tools to finish that part of case prep since consistence is my goal(alone with way more speed while trimming). So what do you guys think, get the Giraud with both case holders or get both of the RT-1200 trimmers and trim dies. I would have to have the trim dies honed out so there not small base though, cant have any SB sizing since I will trim every loading ,or can the trim die be raised enough just to just hold the case concentric to the trimmer while being trimmed but not size the case at all? |
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I'm interested to hear what products/equipment people use to trim. I've only tried using one of those hand trimmers, which was hell. I've heard the Gerard trimmers are good as well as the Dillon 1200 which size as they trim. The reason I ask is because I'm thinking of getting a Dillon 1200 for Christmas. Let me hear your feedback! I have the Dillon 1200 on my Dillon 650. Quickest way to trim brass. Gives an amazingly accurate and consistent cut. I have also found there is no need to chamfer/deburr. Nice clean cut. I find the 1200/650 combo the best way to trim brass. YMMV. You must not be loading Barnes bullets, the TXS requires a VLD chamfer no matter how clean the cut or it will shave copper from the bullet during seating, it does this even with a good regular chamfer much less no chamfer at all and these are BT bullets(62 & 70gr), the 55gr FB is even worse. |
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I'm fixing to buy a power trimmer also but don't know which one, the only reason I'm having to pass on the Dillon is they make a damn trim die for 6.8SPC that will only work with one special trimmer so I would have two buy two trimmers(and trim dies) to be able to trim 6.8SPC and .223 so after all that cost adds up the Giraud trimmer comes out much cheaper. Dillon RT-1200 6.8 trimmer #22034, $229.00 Dillon 6.8 Trim die #16391, $54.95 Dillon RT-1200 Trimmer #22080, $224.95 Dillon .223 Trim die #21363, $45.95 Total just to trim .223 & 6.8 using Dillon RT Trimmers $555.00+ Giraud Power Case Trimmer Complete, .223 Remington CT223 $425.00 Additional Case Holder for any of the calibers listed above (6.8SPC) $30.00 Total to trim .223 & 6.8 using the Giraud $455.00+ So there is about $100 difference there but I wounder if having the two dedicated Dillon trimmers would be better in the long run since they would never need adjusted, just screw it in the press, turn it on and trim the caliber of choice. As long as it's a smooth even(very consistent .001" or less like a lathe trimmer) cut I'm not really worried about the chamfer and deburr since I use a trim mate with the best tools to finish that part of case prep since consistence is my goal(alone with way more speed while trimming). So what do you guys think, get the Giraud with both case holders or get both of the RT-1200 trimmers and trim dies. I would have to have the trim dies honed out so there not small base though, cant have any SB sizing since I will trim every loading ,or can the trim die be raised enough just to just hold the case concentric to the trimmer while being trimmed but not size the case at all? Sir, FWIW I used a Dillon trimmer for many years. I figured out some years ago that trimming each case the minimum amount each time I prepped it to reload worked better for me. With the bullets I use for most match cartridges in my humble opinion it is better to champfer the case mouth inside and out even though I agree with the comment that the Dillon trimmer makes a very clean cut. Additionally I found that the Dillon trim die resizes the case neck more than I want so I resized my cases seperate from the trim die and only used the Dillon trimmer to trim. I use case neck expander mandrels to achieve the case neck tension that I want. Having multiple tool heads mounted with a different trimmer would be great to use on a Dillon progressive but you would still have to champfer the case mouth in my opinion as well as deprime/reprime seperately. Even though I'm a long standing Dillon 550/650 user I really do prefer the Giraud trimmer. I resisted buying one for a few years after I learned of the Giraud trimmer, but succumbed a few years ago and bought one. It wasn't hard to sell my trimmer on the EE forum here on Arf.com. |
| My experience. Since I no longer use an internal ball or mandrel to size the neck of my .223, my brass no longer grows in length. I use a full length sizing die that uses a collet to size the neck OD. The only disadvantage is that I must use a different collet diameter for each type of brass that has different brass thickness in the neck to achieve the neck tension I like. I only load one type of brass at a time so it is not problem for me. The result is much less working of the brass neck with an increase in brass life. |
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I'm fixing to buy a power trimmer also but don't know which one, the only reason I'm having to pass on the Dillon is they make a damn trim die for 6.8SPC that will only work with one special trimmer so I would have two buy two trimmers(and trim dies) to be able to trim 6.8SPC and .223 so after all that cost adds up the Giraud trimmer comes out much cheaper. Dillon RT-1200 6.8 trimmer #22034, $229.00 Dillon 6.8 Trim die #16391, $54.95 Dillon RT-1200 Trimmer #22080, $224.95 Dillon .223 Trim die #21363, $45.95 Total just to trim .223 & 6.8 using Dillon RT Trimmers $555.00+ Giraud Power Case Trimmer Complete, .223 Remington CT223 $425.00 Additional Case Holder for any of the calibers listed above (6.8SPC) $30.00 Total to trim .223 & 6.8 using the Giraud $455.00+ So there is about $100 difference there but I wounder if having the two dedicated Dillon trimmers would be better in the long run since they would never need adjusted, just screw it in the press, turn it on and trim the caliber of choice. As long as it's a smooth even(very consistent .001" or less like a lathe trimmer) cut I'm not really worried about the chamfer and deburr since I use a trim mate with the best tools to finish that part of case prep since consistence is my goal(alone with way more speed while trimming). So what do you guys think, get the Giraud with both case holders or get both of the RT-1200 trimmers and trim dies. I would have to have the trim dies honed out so there not small base though, cant have any SB sizing since I will trim every loading ,or can the trim die be raised enough just to just hold the case concentric to the trimmer while being trimmed but not size the case at all? Sir, FWIW I used a Dillon trimmer for many years. I figured out some years ago that trimming each case the minimum amount each time I prepped it to reload worked better for me. With the bullets I use for most match cartridges in my humble opinion it is better to chamfer the case mouth inside and out even though I agree with the comment that the Dillon trimmer makes a very clean cut. Additionally I found that the Dillon trim die re-sizes the case neck more than I want so I resized my cases separate from the trim die and only used the Dillon trimmer to trim. I use case neck expander mandrels to achieve the case neck tension that I want. Having multiple tool heads mounted with a different trimmer would be great to use on a Dillon progressive but you would still have to chamfer the case mouth in my opinion as well as deprime/reprime separately. Even though I'm a long standing Dillon 550/650 user I really do prefer the Giraud trimmer. I resisted buying one for a few years after I learned of the Giraud trimmer, but succumbed a few years ago and bought one. It wasn't hard to sell my trimmer on the EE forum here on Arf.com. I have three trimmers as of now, I have two Hornady Cam-Lock trimmers with Nitride cutters and one newer RCBS Trim Pro with three way cutters for .223 and 6.8(.277) and while I'm not very satisfied with the RCBS since the 3-way cutters never seem to give a perfectly even chamfer and deburr angle the Cam_lock trimmers work very well and give me the consistency I'm looking for(.000") in varying trim length. After trimming I run every piece of brass across my RCBS Trim Mate and ream the crimp(if OF Mil brass), uniform the PP with a Redding uniformer(and use it to clean the PP if already uniformed), VLD chamfer every case mouth with a RCBS VLD chamfering tool, deburr, and uniform/deburr the FH(if first time prep), so no matter what trimmer is used I prep my brass to the fullest every loading the same way. I use Redding dies only, for both .223 & 6.8 I use the Type "S" FL bushing dies with a floating carbide expander ball & Nitride neck bushings(have never had neck growth from the expander after sizing even once and I've never used neck lube), and like you I pick a bushing(instead of collate) based on case neck thickness (which is checked with a Redding neck thickness gauge) to size the necks the very min(.003" under bullet OD) and let the carbide expander open the neck only to insure the ID is perfectly round which doesn't affect run-out this way and prolongs my case neck life as long as possible. So after explaining how I size and prep my brass I have to wounder if the Dillon trim dies are going to size my brass(neck & base) more than I like? Having to use a separate die to expand the necks and set neck tension just adds unnecessary work hardening to the case neck which I try to keep to a very min to start with, plus I bet the separate operations adds run-out to the necks since they are sized down so much in the trim die and then forced back open with an expander mandrel to finish just your sizing operation. I have two Trim Mates(one new one and one I'm using) so consistent case prep is what I strive for and am looking for a power trimmer that will not compromise my case prep & sizing operation at all and is why I asked if the Dillon trimmers could be used without using the SB sizing feature feature built into their trim dies(I wounder if Dillon or Redding would open the trim die to a normal FL spec with a neck ID of about .244" which would cover any brass I use without over working(sizing) it. Oh and I prime all my brass on an RCBS Bench Mounted auto primer since speed and feel are better than the hand primers and I like a primer that just "Kiss" the bottom without any excessive force like you get when you cant feel a primer seat using a hand tool. Do you think I would get the consistency I'm after using the Giraud trimmer(sizing aside)? My other option and may be what I actually buy is the Sinclair power unit, using my K&M shell holder I can trim very quickly using a simple Lee cutter & length gauge and while it's turning I can inside and outside chamfer the case mouth, then all I would have to do each time with the Trim Mate is clean PP, ream(if needed), and deburr FH(if needed). Sinclair Power Center 
The Sinclair Power Center will significantly reduce the number of hours spent on case preparation and give you more time to spend shooting and in the field. The Sinclair Power center turns case preparation for a hand numbing chore into a fairly easy operation. Cases are prepared uniformly and quickly with much less effort. The Sinclair Power Center compact and features a quiet, low RPM motor with enough torgue to handle turning thick case necks while not overheating from continuous use. Other motorized case prep units are underpowered, noisy, turned at too high rpm's, overheat quickly and/or have exposed wiring or capacitators. The Sinclair Power Center is built around a small but powerful motor attached to a gearhead that turns at 200 rpm and has a torque rating of 43 inch pounds. The motor we selected is more powerful than actually needed, but we didn't want a motor that was under powered. The motor and gearhead are completely enclosed in a vented housing so no capacitors or wires are exposed. Top mounted heavy-duty on/off switch is ergonomically positioned, which is especially important for neck turning operations that require frequent motor stops for unloading/loading the case. The motor and motor housing are all mounted on a large platform that provides plenty of clamping surface area. Heavy-duty power cord (6 feet) is equipped with a grounded plug. The Power Center shaft is equipped with a 3/8 inch capacity keyless chuck so it will accept nearly every case prep tool we offer. Common uses include primer pocket uniforming, flash hole deburring, inside case neck cleaning, chamfering and deburring, and neck turning. For neck turning operations, we highly recommend using our Sinclair Case Drivers in the chuck to hold the cases securely. |
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Foster trimmer replace the handle with a nut and use my cordless drill with a nutdriver to spin it  I have done that and actually have a setup for the Cam-locks just for that but I would like to do neck turning and other things under power as well and a drill press just isnt ideal. Anymore opinions on the Sinclair power center? |
I use a Lee Zip Trim
Wish I could drop some coin on something else. Can't right now. Anything would be an improvement. It does the job however it is a bit time consuming. I was looking at the LnL a while back however I heard the gears are plastic inside and pretty crappy at that. |
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I use a Lee Zip Trim http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/Magazines009-1.jpg Wish I could drop some coin on something else. Can't right now. Anything would be an improvement. It does the job however it is a bit time consuming. I was looking at the LnL a while back however I heard the gears are plastic inside and pretty crappy at that. The Tech at Sinclair said the Hornady was under powered and not worth as quality as it should be. |
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Even though I have and love my Dillon trimmer, it seems to me that because of the 6.8 SPC, you'd need two different 1200s along with the fact that you're already planning to do some hand work after you trim, that the Giraud would be your best bet. Whats the wait time on these? |
| I reload .308 and .223 on my 550 using a Dillon 1200. I just use two lock nuts on the trim dies which are mounted on several tool heads. That way I can use one trimmer motor and swap it from head to head without having to adjust my trim die. Finally, the trimmer takes no more time or handling. You can trim/size/decap brass through one cycle, then swage (if required) and tuble - to remove lube - before loading on your progressive press. |
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I use a Lee Zip Trim http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff170/perimedik/Magazines009-1.jpg Wish I could drop some coin on something else. Can't right now. Anything would be an improvement. It does the job however it is a bit time consuming. I was looking at the LnL a while back however I heard the gears are plastic inside and pretty crappy at that. Used the Lee ZT for a while, extremely accurate. But I eventually went with the Possum Hollow trimmer. Its as accurate as the resizing process was (since it trims off the shoulder). Overall, while the Lee does overall length nearly identical from case to case the neck length may end up different because of the shoulder position. In the end the PH won for speed. Give it a try. |
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The Giraud Power Case Trimmer is the only thing I ever use anymore. yup Yup. Never used a Dillon, and don't care to, I'm satisfied with the best. Doug is at Camp Perry every year, shooting 600 yard high Power service rifle. I like that, it means he knows and cares about both volume and accuracy. |
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Its probably too late to recieve before Christmas, but shortly thereafter would not be out of the question at all. Doug Giraud Giraud Tool Company I'll take one setup for .223 & extra holder setup for 6.8SPC, just tell me where to send the PayPal to and how much, if you can get it here by Christmas that would be AWESOME(+$)(from wife to me even though I'm paying).
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Quoted: Quoted: Even though I have and love my Dillon trimmer, it seems to me that because of the 6.8 SPC, you'd need two different 1200s along with the fact that you're already planning to do some hand work after you trim, that the Giraud would be your best bet. Whats the wait time on these? I have no idea. I've never considered a Giraud trimmer because I don't like the hand processing of the cases. For my purposes my brass doesn't need chamfering or deburing and I don't have a caliber that the std Dillon trimmer won't handle. |
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. Waiting on my new PayPal Debit Master card in the mail, should have it by the end of the week or first of next week(loosing time though) but have the money waiting for you(if you want to get started on it or have it ready that would be great  )
Thanks, Earnest |
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Nest tool on the list is a Bench Source brass case annealer, unless anyone knows of a better option just as nice and maybe cheaper.
Got to get one of these also for PP uniforming, the only step the Trim Mate is to slow at. ETA: Sinclair is making an 8-32 adapter to fit all of their case prep tools so the can be used in the new power prep centers like RCBS & Hornady, I always woundered why they didn't just make them threaded like everyone else and is the only reason I dont use many of their prep tools. I hope this power center has enough torque for neck turning as well or I'll still need the Sinclair Power Center at $400 but hope the $100 Hornady machine works just as good with an adapter and Sinclair case holder. 
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I was gifted 100 Nosler Match .223 brass This stuff was short to start, and after 3 reloads, its still short I might just never need to trim it before something else goes I trim all my brass every loading even if it only grew .001" just for consistency and is the only down side I see to te Giraud because it varies more than that and I like a .000" consistent trim every time. Sinclair is working on a powdered version of the Wilson trimmer that is supposed to be the Cadillac of all precision power trimmers when finished but your looking at close to a year before you see sign of that thing since the power unit and engage/disengage setup of the cutter will have to be very smooth, precise, and repeatable(probably a ball bearing roller setup on an anodized base plate kind of like their concentricity gauge but faster and easier to operate. Since the Wilson has no pilots every case mouth will be square to the case body and length will be from base(case head) to case mouth without the variance of the shoulder case holders like Match Prep and Giraud use but I need(want) something now for precessing bunches of OF and range brass. I figure with the Giraud trimming, chamfering, & deburring all at once, the Hornady power prep motor can handle uniforming the PP just as fast. Reaming PP crimps(if needed) I will stick with my Trim Mate for FH uniforming/deburring, PP cleaning, and crimp reaming since those steps don't need as much speed as they do consistency. More $$$ but tools are never a waste of money as long as you buy quality everytime resale will get you back 85%+ so thats not out of line at all for anything. |
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Giraud for the WIN!
Used the RCBS power trimmer with 3-way cutters for years and finally went with the Giraud. The RCBS worked but took FOREVER to do 1K rounds of brass. Yes, the Giraud is a bit pricey but it's worth every penny. If you buy one you will not regret it. You can get through 1K of brass before you know it . . . and then you'll be looking for more to do. |
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spray lube brass pour into casefeeder then..... crank handle repeat every crank of the handle spits out a de-capped resized trimmed case when your right arm gets tired, scoot over a bit and crank with your left hand. before you know it, but you a GIANT BIN OF PREPPED BRASS
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I use the Lee in a cordless drill, It works good for me. I use a decapping die only to know the primers out then trim and deburr then full lengh resize, hand prime and then load them on redding dies in my big max press. This is for 223 only Why trim before resize? Resize stretches brass, making it longer. |
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I have the Gracey trimmer head and added my own power. I just switched cartridges for the first time. Setting up the cutter is a PITA http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/7617102_0688.jpg Buy a cutter setup and holder for each caliber, cost a little more but makes changing fast, easy, and you'll be glad you did. I'm still thinking Giraud but am looking at other options as well. |
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I use the Dillon Power trimmer for 223, 308 and 300 BLK.
For ball ammo the 223 and 308, the dillon trimmer is all I use. When I'm loading a Ballistic or Vmax, I pull out the Giraud trimmer. For 300BLK I 1st use the Dillon, the finish on the Giraud. The Giraud is nice that you can buy extra blades and leave them setup for a quick change over. My 2nd Giraud should be here any day now, Doug gets them out quick this time of year. With 223, the dillon trimmer in a 1050, I can trim, size, swage, slight case flare(for the bulletfeeder) at 2k per hour, Giraud is 400-500 per hour but it TOTALLY rocks too. I wish someone would make a cutter like the Giraud(won't work on the dillon shaft) that would add the bevels, I would run two trimmers on a 1050. :) The Dillon trimmer has it's place, and so does the Giraud, use what works for you loading style, trimming sucks, so we pay $$ to save time and get good results. Other calibers I just use the Giraud, the Dillon is used to process buckets of brass, I hate to think of doing a 20k batch of once fired Military brass on a Giraud(even thought the machine can handle it, but not my hands,lol). |
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I have the Gracey trimmer head and added my own power. I just switched cartridges for the first time. Setting up the cutter is a PITA http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/7617102_0688.jpg ROCKING motor very nice, that was the gracey's biggest fault. |
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