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Posted: 10/25/2010 4:10:48 AM EDT
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I am interested in buying a 500 S&W H&R Handi Rifle. It comes with a 22" barrel. I am going to reload for this gun, but I have a few questions.
To start with, should I buy all the components from scratch to start with? Or should I buy factory ammo and then just re-use the cases? I was also thinking, I know this gun will have a pretty stout recoil, So I was thinking about loading them down a little (I will only be using the reloads for paper punching). Would it be possible, and safe, to take factory ammo, pull the bullets, empty out half the powder, and then re-seat the bullet? Thanks allot |
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Quoted: I am interested in buying a 500 S&W H&R Handi Rifle. It comes with a 22" barrel. I am going to reload for this gun, but I have a few questions. To start with, should I buy all the components from scratch to start with? Or should I buy factory ammo and then just re-use the cases? I was also thinking, I know this gun will have a pretty stout recoil, So I was thinking about loading them down a little (I will only be using the reloads for paper punching). Would it be possible, and safe, to take factory ammo, pull the bullets, empty out half the powder, and then re-seat the bullet? Thanks allot NO. Without knowing the powder variety and the burning characteristics of that particular powder, that could result in a very dangerous scenario. There is nothing wrong with using fired brass for a basis for reloading. However, some stretching will occur, so beware of that and trim to length. Visit the reloading forum, do some looking around, buy a reloading book or three, if you don't already have them, and then start reloading. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I am interested in buying a 500 S&W H&R Handi Rifle. It comes with a 22" barrel. I am going to reload for this gun, but I have a few questions. To start with, should I buy all the components from scratch to start with? Or should I buy factory ammo and then just re-use the cases? I was also thinking, I know this gun will have a pretty stout recoil, So I was thinking about loading them down a little (I will only be using the reloads for paper punching). Would it be possible, and safe, to take factory ammo, pull the bullets, empty out half the powder, and then re-seat the bullet? Thanks allot NO. Without knowing the powder variety and the burning characteristics of that particular powder, that could result in a very dangerous scenario. There is nothing wrong with using fired brass for a basis for reloading. However, some stretching will occur, so beware of that and trim to length. Visit the reloading forum, do some looking around, buy a reloading book or three, if you don't already have them, and then start reloading. How could it result in a dangerous scenario? I agree that you do not know what powder they are using. the round is loaded to "safe" specs from the factory. If I was to take powder out, and use only a partial charge, I dont see how it would be bad. Maybe I am overlooking something, but logic would say that it would be fine. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I am interested in buying a 500 S&W H&R Handi Rifle. It comes with a 22" barrel. I am going to reload for this gun, but I have a few questions. To start with, should I buy all the components from scratch to start with? Or should I buy factory ammo and then just re-use the cases? I was also thinking, I know this gun will have a pretty stout recoil, So I was thinking about loading them down a little (I will only be using the reloads for paper punching). Would it be possible, and safe, to take factory ammo, pull the bullets, empty out half the powder, and then re-seat the bullet? Thanks allot NO. Without knowing the powder variety and the burning characteristics of that particular powder, that could result in a very dangerous scenario. There is nothing wrong with using fired brass for a basis for reloading. However, some stretching will occur, so beware of that and trim to length. Visit the reloading forum, do some looking around, buy a reloading book or three, if you don't already have them, and then start reloading. How could it result in a dangerous scenario? I agree that you do not know what powder they are using. the round is loaded to "safe" specs from the factory. If I was to take powder out, and use only a partial charge, I dont see how it would be bad. Maybe I am overlooking something, but logic would say that it would be fine. But reloading isn't always logical  ( the whole "I don't need the full power charge...")...that said, your cartridge may be loaded with H110 or 296...which does NOT respond well to reduced charges, "best" case would be a nasty hangfire...worst case could be a unintended detenation..I.E. a Kaboom ! A large case with slow burning powder is always "tricky" to ignite. If I was going to load some reduced loads I'd look at some Trailboss loads, or some reduced loads from a reloading manual.
No offense but....The previous poster is correct in his response to your "empty out half the powder" comment, while you may have meant just a grain or two... you still said "half". Which would lead us to believe that you are not familiar with reloading ammo. Again no offense intended. |
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No offense taken, I did not know the answer, so I posted. I have no problem asking for help when I need it, especially when it comes to something like reloading a 500 S&W. I would rather be safe then sorry.
I was not arguing that it would be safe, what I was trying to get at was WHY is it unsafe. I prefer to get answers with reasons rather then just a YES or NO answer. Your response was what I was looking for, a explanation of why it is not safe, and for that, I thank you. And yes, I have not physically reloaded before, as you probably guess by my "half" comment. I have watched and been exposed to it, but have not actually loaded my own yet, I am still new to the reloading part. I shoot 22LR, 22WMR and clays 99.9999% of the time, so I have not needed to reload before. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am interested in buying a 500 S&W H&R Handi Rifle. It comes with a 22" barrel. I am going to reload for this gun, but I have a few questions. To start with, should I buy all the components from scratch to start with? Or should I buy factory ammo and then just re-use the cases? I was also thinking, I know this gun will have a pretty stout recoil, So I was thinking about loading them down a little (I will only be using the reloads for paper punching). Would it be possible, and safe, to take factory ammo, pull the bullets, empty out half the powder, and then re-seat the bullet? Thanks allot NO. Without knowing the powder variety and the burning characteristics of that particular powder, that could result in a very dangerous scenario. There is nothing wrong with using fired brass for a basis for reloading. However, some stretching will occur, so beware of that and trim to length. Visit the reloading forum, do some looking around, buy a reloading book or three, if you don't already have them, and then start reloading. How could it result in a dangerous scenario? I agree that you do not know what powder they are using. the round is loaded to "safe" specs from the factory. If I was to take powder out, and use only a partial charge, I dont see how it would be bad. Maybe I am overlooking something, but logic would say that it would be fine. This has been well documented going all the way back to P.O. Ackley. It is theorized that the increased free air space in the shell with a much smaller charge results in detonation of the powder rather than the normal burn. You don't know what powder the factory round is loaded with, imho it's not a good idea to be experimenting with a powder you don't know. As the poster above stated, get a powder, work up loads in a scientific manner. Reloading is a great way to save money, and provide a lot of personal satisfaction when approached pragmatically. |
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Big Magnums like the .500 like powders like H110/Win296. Powders similar to those are the ones where this pressure phenomenon can happen. The nature of big cartridges with heavy bullets is a a lot of recoil. Hodgdon list some loads for titegroup that appear to be not as stout, but the trajectory will be more rainbow like the more reduced the charge is. ETA. If you want something soft shooting look at trail boss, it takes up a lot of case volume with low charge weights and doesn't produce very much velocity. |
| Detonation rather than normal burn is one risk. You could also stick a bullet in the bore due to the round being under powered. If you then fire another round, you will have created a very dangerous situation. You will also need calipers to get the cartridge overall length correct. Too long or too short can also create serious risk. Lower powered ammunition for target use is a very good idea, but do this in an educated, safe way. There is are good reasons why reloading manuals list both minimum and maximum loads and COAL's. Buy the ABC's of Reloading and go from there. |
| What would happen if you used a faster burning powder in a small case and only used a half charge? Say a .223 round, normal charge is 24 grains and you only used 12? Same thing or since it is faster/smaller you would get a different result? Or would it just be a smaller kaboom? |
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Quoted:
What would happen if you used a faster burning powder in a small case and only used a half charge? Say a .223 round, normal charge is 24 grains and you only used 12? Same thing or since it is faster/smaller you would get a different result? Or would it just be a smaller kaboom? You can answer that by looking through the load tables in a manual. One annoying consequence of charge volumes that do not fill a case well is erratic ignition and nonuniform muzzle velocities, not to mention non uniform pressures and excursions, even when the load is safe to shoot. Then, do some research on Secondary Explosive Effect. Here are two links, you should be able to find more info - http://guns.connect.fi/gow/QA1.html http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html |
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Quoted:
I am interested in buying a 500 S&W H&R Handi Rifle. It comes with a 22" barrel. I am going to reload for this gun, but I have a few questions. To start with, should I buy all the components from scratch to start with? Or should I buy factory ammo and then just re-use the cases? I was also thinking, I know this gun will have a pretty stout recoil, So I was thinking about loading them down a little (I will only be using the reloads for paper punching). Would it be possible, and safe, to take factory ammo, pull the bullets, empty out half the powder, and then re-seat the bullet? Thanks allot Take a look at the links about Secondary Explosive Effect in my answer to 951bulldog just above this post. |
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Quoted:
I am interested in buying a 500 S&W H&R Handi Rifle. It comes with a 22" barrel. I am going to reload for this gun, but I have a few questions. To start with, should I buy all the components from scratch to start with? Or should I buy factory ammo and then just re-use the cases? I was also thinking, I know this gun will have a pretty stout recoil, So I was thinking about loading them down a little (I will only be using the reloads for paper punching). Would it be possible, and safe, to take factory ammo, pull the bullets, empty out half the powder, and then re-seat the bullet? Thanks allot no!!!, read up on and learn how to load "trail boss". save the thumpers for when you need to breach castles. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
What would happen if you used a faster burning powder in a small case and only used a half charge? Say a .223 round, normal charge is 24 grains and you only used 12? Same thing or since it is faster/smaller you would get a different result? Or would it just be a smaller kaboom? You can answer that by looking through the load tables in a manual. One annoying consequence of charge volumes that do not fill a case well is erratic ignition and nonuniform muzzle velocities, not to mention non uniform pressures and excursions, even when the load is safe to shoot. Then, do some research on Secondary Explosive Effect. Here are two links, you should be able to find more info - http://guns.connect.fi/gow/QA1.html http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html Remember that smokeless reloading propellents are a "beast unto itself"... note the use of the word propellent, (more on that later...) in order for smokeless reloading propellents to work "properly" they need to be enclosed in a barrel. That barrel/chamber "creates the necessary environment for complete efficient combustion" and as there are a variety of calibers and chamber sizes, there needs to be a variety of propellents to be "efficient". If you burn smokeless propellent in a pile on the concrete, it just kinda "burns", leaving behind unburnt granules...those unburnt granules would have burnt if they were in a confined (barrel/ chamber) space.Something similiar will happen if a fully loaded cartridge is thrown into a fire, while the brass case can hold some of the pressure, it still will be promptly overcome by the expanding gas produced by the propellent. And will pop the primer or bullet ( at VERY low speed) relieving the pressure building up. Now if that same cartridge had been chambered in a barrel, and the whole rifle / handgun been thrown into the fire , the weapon would discharge. (This ,and other reasons, is why my firearms remain "empty chamber".) Anyway, the Propellent industry spends tons of money testing all these propellents for us, so that we can safely use a specific propellent in a specific cartridge...so even though you'd like to use a "faster" propellent at half charge.. don't do it, unless the data is from someone that you trust enough, that you would be willing risk losing your eyesight on. Even a small case like .223 can generate 10's of thousands of PSI, scant inches from your face. Moral of this post, "Trust and follow the data in a Reloading Manual" And while all rifles will behave differently with same load data, the reloading manual will give you the basic "range/ charge size" that the specific propellent can be used with a specific cartridge efficiently and safely . As for the "(more on that later...)" comment... Black Powder is different than smokeless propellent... I haven't loaded any BP, but do know that it behaves totally differently. |
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