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Posted: 7/29/2010 10:38:09 AM EDT
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Alright... so I got my stuff on the way.
I ordered from hi-tech ammo the following. 8lbs of WC844 500 pcs of SS109 pulled/polished/sized bullets (62gr) 500 pcs of M193 pulled/polished/sized bullets (55gr) 500 pcs of M193 new bullets (55gr) I'm going to cabelas and get a 100 or so pcs of hornady FMJ-BT W/C 55gr My goal is to test these 4 bullet types to determine which will give the best accuracy within 300yds.... I will be shooting 3 gun and plan to make "match" 3-gun ammo for that at a later date I have about 2300+ pcs of mixed 223 brass, mostly LC,WWC,WIN,PMC,FC,RP The gun is a midlength 16" with a 1:7" barrel. What have you guys found as being good loads with those bullets? I bought all of them so I could decide on one or two and then order in bulk later... my goal for accuracy is to be able to consistantly group on the A zone of a USPSA target which I want to say is approx 6" wide x 11" tall out to 300yds. I also have IMR-4064 and H4895 Mike. |
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Work up loads using H335 data. IIRC, I'm getting best accuracy with H335 and Hornady 55gr FMJs in the high 24s using PMC and WCC brass trimmed to 1.740", loaded to approximately 2.20" with a light crimp.
Don't expect amazing accuracy with pulldown powder and bullets fired through a standard barrel. Use the cheap stuff on the 0-100 yard targets and get some OTMs and Varget or RL-15 for the distance stuff. |
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I've decided that surplus powder just isn't worth the trouble any more. $95 for 8lbs of surplus versus $125-$130 for factory cannister powder. And with the surplus you have to work up EVERY time you switch lots of powder. However the surplus WC844 is a good powder for the AR.
For your 62 grain bullets I'd work up from 23.5-24.8 grains watching for pressure and accuracy. Two different lots of 844 gave me approximately 3000 fps with 24.6 grain while another lot from another source only got 2920 fps at 24.8-25 grains. Your powder could be slower or faster than these three lots. I'd start at 24 grains with the 55 fmj's and work up to a maximum of 25.5 grains. With 3 different lots of 844 I got about 3100 fps with 25 grains but the slow lot of 844 only showed a little over 2900 fps with 25 grains. You have to work up your surplus powder. It's not the SAME as H335 but only means that H335 START data should be used for working up your loads. |
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Yup.. I have a chrono... I was going to work them up and test for velocity and then test for accuracy.
Damn... I didn't know that powder changed so much between lots. I'm going to go through this stuff and see how I like it. If I buy mroe I'll by 3 jugs of it and ask for the same lot and if not that I'll mix to to keep it consistant. I have a very hard time with this whole "accuacy" thing with the AR... I have added the AR to my collection, but before I would mostly shoot a savage 10FP which shot 0.3-0.5MOA all day, when I first got it I was pissed at the groups and then my friend(who ones one and is in the marines) that its not a precision gun but one designed to hit a man sized target consistantly.... so I'm starting to ease into the idea of "accuracy" in an AR.. I figured this stuff would do good.. my friend and I both got 2-3" groups with ultramax ammo at 100yds and I see this as being 'good' for the ammo I want to make. I tried the Tula stuff and I couldn't get tighter than 6"... so I figured if its not "accurate" it will still be better than the "cheap stuff" But ya, for accurate ammo I'll work up some other load with heavier match bullets... I just want to design the general purpose shooting ammo for now. Mike. |
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Quoted:
... I have a very hard time with this whole "accuacy" thing with the AR... I have added the AR to my collection, but before I would mostly shoot a savage 10FP which shot 0.3-0.5MOA all day, when I first got it I was pissed at the groups and then my friend(who ones one and is in the marines) that its not a precision gun but one designed to hit a man sized target consistantly.... so I'm starting to ease into the idea of "accuracy" in an AR.. I figured this stuff would do good.. my friend and I both got 2-3" groups with ultramax ammo at 100yds and I see this as being 'good' for the ammo I want to make. I tried the Tula stuff and I couldn't get tighter than 6"... so I figured if its not "accurate" it will still be better than the "cheap stuff" ... Mike. Your friend is wrong about AR accuracy. A rifle with a good free floated barrel, trigger, ammo and shooter will hold its own with any bolt gun that's not a dedicated benchrest rifle. When competing, the rifle must be as accurate as possible to help minimize the total error of shooter plus rifle. You can't make up for a poor gun with your own skill at holding. Your target is two minutes wide at 300 yards; how do you plan to hit that with a three minute rifle? Plus, we have to control what we can, which is the rifle and load, and minimize what we can't, which is the wind. That means an accurate rifle and load is required. |
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So how does this sound...
Starting load for 55gr using WC844 24gr. 24.3gr 24.6gr 24.9gr 25.2gr 25.5gr - End (I'm going to go until pressure signs or until I get 3200fps on the chrono.) I'm going to do 20-25rds of each - 10 for the chrono and 10-15 for (2-3) 5rd group tests Starting Load for 62gr using WC844 23.5gr 24gr 24.3gr 24.6gr 24.8gr 25gr - END (going until pressure signs or 3000-3100fps on the chrono) This will be shot out of LC/WCC/PMC brass (mostly LC and second being PMC) I will seat them to 2.200" and apply a light crimp into the cannelure... CCI small rifle primer. The other question I have... I have an eotech and iron sights on the gun... 100yd shooting is going to be a little challenging to shoot "consistantly" like you can on a scope.. do you think if I moved it to 75ish yds it would be ok? I'm just trying to find the place where this ammo shows its 100yd accuarcy that is closer than 100yds. Mike. |
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Alright... I think I am being a little cautions with this... I'm going to do the loads like so.
55gr bullet 24gr 24.5gr 25gr 25.3gr 25.6gr 25.9gr 26.2gr ... I found the military load manual and they are going up to 28gr of this powder to acheive 3200fps with M193 bullets... I don't plan to shoot that fast... 3000fps would be fine for plinking general shooting. 62gr bullet 23.5gr 24gr 24.3gr 24.6gr 24.9gr 25.2gr 25.4gr Military loads it to 26ish gr. and gets 3000fps out of it. Mike. |
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Quoted:
Alright... I think I am being a little cautions with this... I'm going to do the loads like so. 55gr bullet 24gr 24.5gr 25gr 25.3gr 25.6gr 25.9gr 26.2gr ... I found the military load manual and they are going up to 28gr of this powder to acheive 3200fps with M193 bullets... I don't plan to shoot that fast... 3000fps would be fine for plinking general shooting. 62gr bullet 23.5gr 24gr 24.3gr 24.6gr 24.9gr 25.2gr 25.4gr Military loads it to 26ish gr. and gets 3000fps out of it. Mike. You're not being cautious. You have an unknown gunpowder, and you don't have the "military load manual". But, you'll probably be safe if you pay attention. The loads in TM43-0001-27 are baselines. The lots of gunpowder and loaded ammunition are tested to make sure they meet the MIL-C requirements. You have gunpowder identified as WC844, but you don't know how that lot compares to the baseline stuff - due to lot to lot variation you should use some degree of caution with all of these pull down gunpowders. |
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AeroE, I see what you are saying. That was my thought also.. I just figured that reading what people do/what the military does and doing some math, that my my previous starting loads were a little on the low side... as in they are safe and that I will not be near the pressure/accuracy point yet so I could save the time/ammo and bump the powder up a little.
From what I have read, everyone seems to find something around 25-25.5gr that works for both bullets and keeps it under any pressure signs. MIke. |
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