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Posted: 7/25/2010 6:30:50 AM EDT
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I was so happy with the 6.8 die, I decided to get the .223.
Start sizing some cases from yesterday and they don't come close to fitting in the case gauge 
Set up the Hornady - worked fine. Set up the Lee - worked fine. Area close to the headstamp is too "fat" when using the Redding. Tried moving it down in the press - no joy. Tried moving it up - still no joy. Besides a defective die, I'm stumped. Thoughts? Thanks in advance |
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Size some brass and try fit in the rifle/rifles to be used.
One thing about those drop in gages, they are not your rifles chamber. I used to use one and found I was over resizing my brass by 8 to 9 thousandths and getting split necks eminating from the nech shoulder junction. If you have difficulty chambering your resized brass in your rifle, THEN you truly have an issue. Right now all you know is you have an issue with your rounds fitting in that gage. I suggest using a stoney point/hornady headspace gage to set your dies. I seldom use my dillon/wilson drop in gages anymore. |
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Try a different shell holder. Your's might have a top flange that is too thick and doesn't allow the die down on the case quite far enough. Your case gage might not be right, either. Which brand case gage are you using? This is one option. If camming over (setting the die up approximately 1/8 turn past "just touching" the shell holder) doesn't work, buy another shell holder and remove metal from the top of the shell holder by sanding it with emery cloth. I tape the cloth to a mirror or pane on glass and use circlular motions to remove metel from the top of the shell holder. This will allow the die to move lower on the case. It's cheaper and easier than removing metal from the bottom of the die and won't void the die's warranty. Make sure you mark the shell holder so it doesn't get used elswhere by mistake. If this doesn't work contact Redding for a replacement. Get your calipers, or better yet micrometer, and take some before and after readings on the cases. You may have a bad die, but it's rare. |
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Try a different shell holder. Your's might have a top flange that is too thick and doesn't allow the die down on the case quite far enough. Your case gage might not be right, either. Which brand case gage are you using? OK - but using the same shell holder and the Hornady works great. Just when I try the Redding, it isn't close. Case gauge is a Lyman. Since I tested other ammo and cases with it, I'd suspect it's correct. It's always something 
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Try a different shell holder. Your's might have a top flange that is too thick and doesn't allow the die down on the case quite far enough. Your case gage might not be right, either. Which brand case gage are you using? This is one option. If camming over (setting the die up approximately 1/8 turn past "just touching" the shell holder) doesn't work, buy another shell holder and remove metal from the top of the shell holder by sanding it with emery cloth. I tape the cloth to a mirror or pane on glass and use circlular motions to remove metel from the top of the shell holder. This will allow the die to move lower on the case. It's cheaper and easier than removing metal from the bottom of the die and won't void the die's warranty. Make sure you mark the shell holder so it doesn't get used elswhere by mistake. If this doesn't work contact Redding for a replacement. Get your calipers, or better yet micrometer, and take some before and after readings on the cases. You may have a bad die, but it's rare. Same exact shell holder works fine with a Hornady FL sizing die, so even though I'll try it, this doesn't seem like the issue to me. Just my luck, I believe I have a bad die. |
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Is the die marked .223 Rem B/FL(Bushing/Full Length)?
If so what shell holder are you using? I use a Hornady shell holder with mine and the die doesn't even tough the shell holder to get enough shoulder bump for my rifles. I have a Dillon and a Wilson drop in gauge but I use the Hornady gauge and set the die to bump the shoulder of the brass fired in my rifle back .003" which ends up being flush with the top of the drop in gauges instead of down between the cut like it's supposed to be for the gauge to read correct. I have found some range brass that was fired in rifles with rather large chambers don't size as much as the brass fired in my rifle and I have to use my Hornady FL die to size them back down to spec completely(just to keep from re-adjusting my Redding die, I keep the Hornady die setup for large range brass) but once fired from my rifle the brass sizes just fine in the Redding die. Redding's spec's are on the loose side and this is good because it doesn't over size the brass like most FL dies do but can be troublesome if you have a rather loose chamber to begin with, you can easily feel the difference if you size a piece of brass in the Redding die and then size a piece in your Hornady die |
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Is the die marked .223 Rem B/FL(Bushing/Full Length)? If so what shell holder are you using? I use a Hornady shell holder with mine and the die doesn't even tough the shell holder to get enough shoulder bump for my rifles. I have a Dillon and a Wilson drop in gauge but I use the Hornady gauge and set the die to bump the shoulder of the brass fired in my rifle back .003" which ends up being flush with the top of the drop in gauges instead of down between the cut like it's supposed to be for the gauge to read correct. I have found some range brass that was fired in rifles with rather large chambers don't size as much as the brass fired in my rifle and I have to use my Hornady FL die to size them back down to spec completely(just to keep from re-adjusting my Redding die, I keep the Hornady die setup for large range brass) but once fired from my rifle the brass sizes just fine in the Redding die. Redding's spec's are on the loose side and this is good because it doesn't over size the brass like most FL dies do but can be troublesome if you have a rather loose chamber to begin with, you can easily feel the difference if you size a piece of brass in the Redding die and then size a piece in your Hornady die I'll double check. I know you post at 68Forums and I bought the redding 6.8 based on your suggestion. I was real happy with that one and figured since I keep busting the Hornady decapping assembly, I'd get the Redding you like. I'll take a fresh look today. Thanks |
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Is the die marked .223 Rem B/FL(Bushing/Full Length)? If so what shell holder are you using? I use a Hornady shell holder with mine and the die doesn't even tough the shell holder to get enough shoulder bump for my rifles. I have a Dillon and a Wilson drop in gauge but I use the Hornady gauge and set the die to bump the shoulder of the brass fired in my rifle back .003" which ends up being flush with the top of the drop in gauges instead of down between the cut like it's supposed to be for the gauge to read correct. I have found some range brass that was fired in rifles with rather large chambers don't size as much as the brass fired in my rifle and I have to use my Hornady FL die to size them back down to spec completely(just to keep from re-adjusting my Redding die, I keep the Hornady die setup for large range brass) but once fired from my rifle the brass sizes just fine in the Redding die. Redding's spec's are on the loose side and this is good because it doesn't over size the brass like most FL dies do but can be troublesome if you have a rather loose chamber to begin with, you can easily feel the difference if you size a piece of brass in the Redding die and then size a piece in your Hornady die I'll double check. I know you post at 68Forums and I bought the redding 6.8 based on your suggestion. I was real happy with that one and figured since I keep busting the Hornady decapping assembly, I'd get the Redding you like. I'll take a fresh look today. Thanks I'm sure you will get it figured out, any more ?'s just ask and I'll help as much as I can. Also I was sizing some PMC brass with my Redding die tonight and started off using Imperial sizing wax and the head-space measurement kept coming out different with each case so after about 20 cases I just sprayed the rest(about 100 pieces) of the brass down with Dillon spray lube and after that every case had the exact same head-space measurement according to my Hornady head space gauge. I guess the Imperial wax wasn't allowing consistent flow of the brass during sizing causing the measurements to vary but the Dillon lube solved that problem real quick. |
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Well you've been real helpful (as has everyone else) and what I'll do is double check everything tonight after work and then decide what I will do. It wasn't cheap!
I may turn down the Lee decapper until it fits the Horandy sizing die, that way I get a decent decapping pin that won't bust along with a good re-sizing die, or I could drill the Horandy collet. I'm not playing find the shell holder with a $50 die, because I shouldn't have to. |
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Try a different shell holder. Your's might have a top flange that is too thick and doesn't allow the die down on the case quite far enough. Your case gage might not be right, either. Which brand case gage are you using? OK - but using the same shell holder and the Hornady works great. Just when I try the Redding, it isn't close. Case gauge is a Lyman. Since I tested other ammo and cases with it, I'd suspect it's correct. It's always something Try to put the case into the gage backwards. Most likely you'll find the diameter of the rims of the brass that appears too long, are too large to fit in the gage and are holding the sized cases out when you try to measure them. Every Lyman gage I know of has the same problem, it won't correctly measure .223 brass with rims that run to the high side of the SAAMI dimension (0.378 inches). Measure the rims of the brass giving you trouble with a caliper, too. If you are not shooting mixed head stamps, this might not be the problem since the other die appears to work. |
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Try a different shell holder. Your's might have a top flange that is too thick and doesn't allow the die down on the case quite far enough. Your case gage might not be right, either. Which brand case gage are you using? OK - but using the same shell holder and the Hornady works great. Just when I try the Redding, it isn't close. Case gauge is a Lyman. Since I tested other ammo and cases with it, I'd suspect it's correct. It's always something Try to put the case into the gage backwards. Most likely you'll find the diameter of the rims of the brass that appears too long, are too large to fit in the gage and are holding the sized cases out when you try to measure them. Every Lyman gage I know of has the same problem, it won't correctly measure .223 brass with rims that run to the high side of the SAAMI dimension (0.378 inches). Measure the rims of the brass giving you trouble with a caliper, too. If you are not shooting mixed head stamps, this might not be the problem since the other die appears to work. Nah - it's not the rim - it's the last part of the case, a fairly large portion that is plainly too fat to fit the gauge. I've been through the rim issue, which is in reality a non-issue, so I recognize the difference. Maybe I'll snap some pics to give a better idea what's going on. On a happier note, my 6.8 reloads were very consistent and balls-on accurate. One ragged hole - only 25 yards, but hey I'll take it. I'll boost the charge a bit and see if it affects accuracy. My 10 lbs of TAC is supposed to arrive today and I'll give that a look in the books to see if it's a viable powder. I was really surprised at the clarity of the Po Boy - really a damned good addition to my 512. Perfect for hunting! I also discovered there is a sweet spot on my chrono - after clocking factory M855 at 600 fps  I knew something was not right. Still learning . . .
Damned handgun rounds were way inconsistent, but that was before I figured out the sweet spot. I have the RCBC Chargemaster next up on my list. I'll re-test the .40/.45 ammo next time out. Best of all - I didn't shoot the chrony 
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| Yeah some pic's would be good, it's hard to believe the Redding die isn't sizing the case small enough to fit in the drop in gauge, I can believe that the case may need the shoulder bumped another couple thou., but for the base of the case to be to large after sizing doesn't sound like a die problem. I would check the cases in my rifle and see if they fit, just because the cases fit after being sized in the Hornady die and not the Redding doesn't mean the Redding is out of spec, maybe the Hornady die is just under spec so much you don't see the problem with the drop-in gauge when using the Hornady die(my Hornady .223 Match FL bushing die had to be sent back and opened up because it was over sizing the base of the brass like a SB die and leaving a ring around the base of the brass) . My bets are that the brass fits your rifle fine and the gauge is just to tight making the Redding die look like it isn't sizing enough, I wouldn't give up on the die until I seen that the sized brass wouldn't fit my rifle and then I would give Redding a call. |
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Yeah some pic's would be good, it's hard to believe the Redding die isn't sizing the case small enough to fit in the drop in gauge, I can believe that the case may need the shoulder bumped another couple thou., but for the base of the case to be to large after sizing doesn't sound like a die problem. I would check the cases in my rifle and see if they fit, just because the cases fit after being sized in the Hornady die and not the Redding doesn't mean the Redding is out of spec, maybe the Hornady die is just under spec so much you don't see the problem with the drop-in gauge when using the Hornady die(my Hornady .223 Match FL bushing die had to be sent back and opened up because it was over sizing the base of the brass like a SB die and leaving a ring around the base of the brass) . My bets are that the brass fits your rifle fine and the gauge is just to tight making the Redding die look like it isn't sizing enough, I wouldn't give up on the die until I seen that the sized brass wouldn't fit my rifle and then I would give Redding a call. Will do. |
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It's the case gauge, even fired brass fits fine in both my Wilson and Dillon gauges, they only stick up the couple thou. that the shoulder needs bumped back.
That gauge looks to be built to a very tight spec at the top not allowing the brass to fit when I bet there is only .001" difference in the Redding sized case and the Hornady sized case at the spot it's sticking(that's what mine is) and isn't enough to make a difference and should chamber in your rifle just fine. Take the case sized with the Redding die and drop it in the chamber of your rifle, if it chambers and extracts fine don't worry about it anymore and keep using the Redding die. If you had a different case gauge you would have never even knew the difference and all would be just fine. ETA: I will send you my Dillon gauge to use if you need it to setup the Redding die and make sure the brass is really in spec after sizing. Do you have a mic you can check the size of the case that was sized in the Redding die and wont fit the gauge, I would like to see what the difference in between what your die is sizing to and what mine sizes to? |
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This is the bottom line. Will the cases resized with the Redding die easily fit in your chamber and do they extract without problems? If so you are good to go. If not, send it back.
It appears your gage is cut to SAAMI .223 and your Redding die is closer to NATO spec. |
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It's the case gauge, even fired brass fits fine in both my Wilson and Dillon gauges, they only stick up the couple thou. that the shoulder needs bumped back. That gauge looks to be built to a very tight spec at the top not allowing the brass to fit when I bet there is only .001" difference in the Redding sized case and the Hornady sized case at the spot it's sticking(that's what mine is) and isn't enough to make a difference and should chamber in your rifle just fine. Take the case sized with the Redding die and drop it in the chamber of your rifle, if it chambers and extracts fine don't worry about it anymore and keep using the Redding die. If you had a different case gauge you would have never even knew the difference and all would be just fine. ETA: I will send you my Dillon gauge to use if you need it to setup the Redding die and make sure the brass is really in spec after sizing. Do you have a mic you can check the size of the case that was sized in the Redding die and wont fit the gauge, I would like to see what the difference in between what your die is sizing to and what mine sizes to? I have a mic and will check some dimensions before/after/Redding/Hornady. Like advised, if it fits the rifle, go with it I guess. Thanks for the offer on the Dillon gauge. I may take you up on it - let's see what the dimensions show. |
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