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Posted: 7/7/2010 6:56:17 AM EDT
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Hey everyone.
My AR is on the way from Spikes... so its time to figure out the ammo thing. For starters I'm going to just go buy some factory ammo... cabelas has a sale... going to get some tula/herters/pmc. I currently reload, and have a single stage RCBS and a hornady LNL AP. I reload 308, 38spl/357mag, 45acp, 45colt, 45/75WCF soon to ad 300WM to it since my dad just bought one. I load my 308 for precision so I take the time to make sure each charge is the same etc... takes some time, can do 50 ish an hour... for the match 223 I will load the same way, but for plinking I don't want to sit there all day. The hornady powder drop rifle insert isn't very consistant... i can do +/- 1gr from my testing with IMR4064, this is my main issue with reloading rifles on the fly. So a few question for you guys... what do you guys do to speed up the process/how do you guys reload it all? And do you guys crimp/FCD your ammo.. I was going to since its will be shot out of a mag. Does a +/- 1 gr of powder make a big difference for plinking from your testing? Any powders that meter really well? And with case lubing.. do you guys just lube and keep running it and clean them off once you have the shells finished? Mike. |
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Hey everyone. My AR is on the way from Spikes... so its time to figure out the ammo thing. For starters I'm going to just go buy some factory ammo... cabelas has a sale... going to get some tula/herters/pmc. I currently reload, and have a single stage RCBS and a hornady LNL AP. I reload 308, 38spl/357mag, 45acp, 45colt, 45/75WCF soon to ad 300WM to it since my dad just bought one. I load my 308 for precision so I take the time to make sure each charge is the same etc... takes some time, can do 50 ish an hour... for the match 223 I will load the same way, but for plinking I don't want to sit there all day. The hornady powder drop rifle insert isn't very consistant... i can do +/- 1gr from my testing with IMR4064, this is my main issue with reloading rifles on the fly. So a few question for you guys... what do you guys do to speed up the process/how do you guys reload it all? And do you guys crimp/FCD your ammo.. I was going to since its will be shot out of a mag. Does a +/- 1 gr of powder make a big difference for plinking from your testing? Any powders that meter really well? And with case lubing.. do you guys just lube and keep running it and clean them off once you have the shells finished? Mike. I load on single stage also. I use an rcbs powder measure. Use a "ball" powder for more consistent throws...like TAC (my pref). I don't use a FCD, just the crimp in the seater die but in a separate step. For the case lube issue, I usually size and then throw the brass back in the tumbler for and hour or two. |
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If its just for plinking, and imr 4064 meters that poorly, I'd just swap powders.
I like H335 and BLC2 with 55 grainers, which I assume you would use for plinking. They both meter extremely well (I have the same press and measure as you). 1 grain would be more variation than I'd like to have. Even for a plinking load, I like to hit what I aim at! I normally use a Lee FCD die on my ar15 ammo, unless its loaded so long that it won't fit in the magazine anyway. |
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Hey everyone. My AR is on the way from Spikes... so its time to figure out the ammo thing. For starters I'm going to just go buy some factory ammo... cabelas has a sale... going to get some tula/herters/pmc. Make sure the brass is boxer primed , if you plan to reload it . I currently reload, and have a single stage RCBS and a hornady LNL AP. I reload 308, 38spl/357mag, 45acp, 45colt, 45/75WCF soon to ad 300WM to it since my dad just bought one. I load my 308 for precision so I take the time to make sure each charge is the same etc... takes some time, can do 50 ish an hour... for the match 223 I will load the same way, but for plinking I don't want to sit there all day. The hornady powder drop rifle insert isn't very consistant... i can do +/- 1gr from my testing with IMR4064, this is my main issue with reloading rifles on the fly. My Lee disk powder measure and rifle powder die routinely does +- .1 grain . Which is plenty close , even for match .223 . So a few question for you guys... what do you guys do to speed up the process/how do you guys reload it all? I am using the Lee cast iron turret press , this helps speed things up . And do you guys crimp/FCD your ammo.. Used to not , now I do . I was going to since its will be shot out of a mag. Does a +/- 1 gr of powder make a big difference for plinking from your testing? Never had variation that bad , but I would bet it does ? Any powders that meter really well? All of them meter well enough . And with case lubing.. do you guys just lube and keep running it and clean them off once you have the shells finished? Yep . Used to put them in the tumbler , but that eventually clogs up the media . :-( Once you have trimmed and processed the brass for the first time , from then on ( if you only have one .223 rifle ) either try a Lee collet die or an X-Die . God bless Wyr Mike. |
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You might want to start reading here. AssaultRifler has made an excellent tutorial on reloading .223. He pretty much covers all the basics.
Yes, ±1 grain is too much variation. You would be going for variations of ±0.1gr. For that you will need a good metering ball powder like TAC, H335, or many others. The crimp versus no crimp thing is a long running battle. I use the FCD. Some others do not. Do you like Ford or Chevy? jonblack |
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Quoted:
Hey everyone. My AR is on the way from Spikes... so its time to figure out the ammo thing. For starters I'm going to just go buy some factory ammo... cabelas has a sale... going to get some tula/herters/pmc. I currently reload, and have a single stage RCBS and a hornady LNL AP. I reload 308, 38spl/357mag, 45acp, 45colt, 45/75WCF soon to ad 300WM to it since my dad just bought one. I load my 308 for precision so I take the time to make sure each charge is the same etc... takes some time, can do 50 ish an hour... for the match 223 I will load the same way, but for plinking I don't want to sit there all day. The hornady powder drop rifle insert isn't very consistant... i can do +/- 1gr from my testing with IMR4064, this is my main issue with reloading rifles on the fly. So a few question for you guys... what do you guys do to speed up the process/how do you guys reload it all? And do you guys crimp/FCD your ammo.. I was going to since its will be shot out of a mag. Does a +/- 1 gr of powder make a big difference for plinking from your testing? Any powders that meter really well? And with case lubing.. do you guys just lube and keep running it and clean them off once you have the shells finished? Mike. I load on single stage also. I use an rcbs powder measure. Use a "ball" powder for more consistent throws...like TAC (my pref). I don't use a FCD, just the crimp in the seater die but in a separate step. For the case lube issue, I usually size and then throw the brass back in the tumbler for and hour or two. +1 I also have an RCBS uniflow which throws much tighter than 1 gr using BLC-2 (ball) powder. I also tumble my brass after sizing to remove the lube (I learned the hard way after having powder stick to the case mouths). |
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You might want to start reading here. AssaultRifler has made an excellent tutorial on reloading .223. He pretty much covers all the basics. Yes, ±1 grain is too much variation. You would be going for variations of ±0.1gr. For that you will need a good metering ball powder like TAC, H335, or many others. The crimp versus no crimp thing is a long running battle. I use the FCD. Some others do not. Do you like Ford or Chevy? jonblack +/- 1 grain is unacceptable. If you are bound to shoot a gunpowder that won't meter better than that, you are better off using a scoop into a pan on a scale, then trickling within +/- 0.2 to +/0.3 grains for a case the size of the .308 Win. Scoops are under rated. +/- 0.1 grain per throw is not necessary, although it makes the reloader feel better, it won't cause a tuned load to shoot better. Especially in large cases. A Uniflow with a baffle will throw RE-15 to +/-0.2 grains or better without much trouble, just keep the powder level at a nearly constant height in the reservoir and use a consistent hand on the handle. |
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You can load as fast as pistol if you want, but even for plinking, I feel it's important to prep and trim .223 cases. There will always remain a danger reloading a "gas" gun if there's any chance a case can fire out of battery, or slam fire. Also IMO making sure the case is head-spaced correctly in the Sizer is also important. Do yourself a favor and Read This
My regiment has always been to prep large amounts of brass first, usually 500 rounds at a time, (large for me anyway), and store it ready to load. 500 rounds at a time: 1 . Size and deprime in the R.C. 2. Trim, chamfer, and deburr that 500 on my powered Forster. 3. (optional, or first reload only, uniform primer pockets in a Trim Mate. 4. Tumble for 15 minutes in corn cobb to remove lube. Then I put it away in my storage boxes of ready to reload brass. (Thousands) So then when I reload a batch from that stash it really is fast: prime, charge, seat, and crimp. (in a gas gun I feel safer with crimped brass...I use a light FCD crimp. If you want to improve on that then Buckets Full! is a really effective, (but a tad more expensive) method P.S. The reason I like to do my step #3 on the first reloading of brass, is that it makes the depth of the primer holes uniform. That's a good thing when you have a progressive press that has a "stop" on the primer rod. that means I can use the press's priming feature fast and sure (no "feel" involved), and the primers all get set at the exact same depth. |
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Thanks for the replies.
Ya IMR 4064 meters bad since its very long... so I do the scope/scale method but my 308 ammo out of my 10FP is sub 0.3 out to 600yds I will look for ball powder, I'm sure it will meter much better. Do you guys trim your brass every time or once very low and then only when its out of spec? Thats really the most time consuming.. I might have to invest in a power trimmer. MIke. |
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Mike
Don't trim too short, trim to the proper length. One your trimmer is set up properly, stick the case in there. If it needs to be trimmed it will get trimmed, if it does not need to get trimmed it won't be trimmed. You can start out with cheap trimmer like the Lee. You can speed things up using a battery drill or drill press. Once you get tired of that you can step things up. Possum Hollow, Giraud, Dillon, etc. jonblack |
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Processing brass is very time consuming. For this reason, a lot of people process a large amount, since everything is all set up. It all depending on how much you shoot. For some people having 500 cases is ideal. I don't shoot a lot, but I gots me 5-10k on hand depending on what stage I am in processing.
jonblack |
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Mike Don't trim too short, trim to the proper length. One your trimmer is set up properly, stick the case in there. If it needs to be trimmed it will get trimmed, if it does not need to get trimmed it won't be trimmed. You can start out with cheap trimmer like the Lee. You can speed things up using a battery drill or drill press. Once you get tired of that you can step things up. Possum Hollow, Giraud, Dillon, etc. jonblack I should have rephrased that... I ment to say, to the bottom of the spec limit. |
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Thanks for the replies. Ya IMR 4064 meters bad since its very long... so I do the scope/scale method but my 308 ammo out of my 10FP is sub 0.3 out to 600yds I will look for ball powder, I'm sure it will meter much better. Do you guys trim your brass every time or once very low and then only when its out of spec? Thats really the most time consuming.. I might have to invest in a power trimmer. MIke. What trimmer are you using? I was able to attach a cordless drill to my RCBS trimmer and really cut down on the time it takes. Saves your hand too. |
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I linked to the Reloading Resources threads above, but this link will take you to the portion about trimming. Go to step #9 in the thread.
jonblack |
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Here is an old link about a guy's case trimming setup.
jonblack |
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Processing brass is very time consuming. For this reason, a lot of people process a large amount, since everything is all set up. It all depending on how much you shoot. For some people having 500 cases is ideal. I don't shoot a lot, but I gots me 5-10k on hand depending on what stage I am in processing. jonblack I try and process 2K at a time - shelve it and prime/load when I need ammo. I tumble resize lemmi shine bath trim prime load This way I avoid media sticking in the primer pockets and lemmi shine seems to remove some primer pocket carbon as well as remove the lube. I have 500 or so .45 to load - but the heat here has been hard to deal with at 100+ daily. Another way I save time is to simply "pull load data out of thin air." Who needs those pesky reload manuals? Just kidding of course - sort of a private joke 
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Two powders that meter real well are H335 and TAC.
I use a Lee Turret Press. Its about 3X as fast as single stage. The Lee Pro Auto DIsk throws accurate enough for plinking ammo. Plus or minus a tenth fo a grain with H335. I use my autodisk powder measure for varmit/match rounds. I do not crimp. My dies give plenty of neck tension without it. I don't measure each case each time. I measure about every 3rd reload. The brass won't "grow" enough to be out of spec after each firing. |
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Two powders that meter real well are H335 and TAC. I use a Lee Turret Press. Its about 3X as fast as single stage. The Lee Pro Auto DIsk throws accurate enough for plinking ammo. Plus or minus a tenth fo a grain with H335. I use my autodisk powder measure for varmit/match rounds. I do not crimp. My dies give plenty of neck tension without it. I don't measure each case each time. I measure about every 3rd reload. The brass won't "grow" enough to be out of spec after each firing. How's the TAC for plinking ammo? CPR? I just got 10 lbs at Midway as it was on sale for like $12 and change. I run the Lee 4 hole. Need any 3 hole parts? I have plenty I am gonna put on EE eventually. |
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Thanks for the replies. Ya IMR 4064 meters bad since its very long... so I do the scope/scale method but my 308 ammo out of my 10FP is sub 0.3 out to 600yds I will look for ball powder, I'm sure it will meter much better. Do you guys trim your brass every time or once very low and then only when its out of spec? Thats really the most time consuming.. I might have to invest in a power trimmer. MIke. I use some ball powders , but only because it was bought cheap or a long time ago . Or it was available . My Lee disk powder measure leaks ball powder , not ba , but enough to be a little irritating . I use AA # 2200 surplus powder for .223 . I use surplus 4895 for .30 caliber . WC820 or AA # 9 for .357 & .44 Mag . I trim with the Lee trimming setup and an electric drill motor . I repeat , trim once & then use the X-Die or the Lee collet die . The collet die has the advantage of not needing lube . God bless Wyr |
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Hey everyone. My AR is on the way from Spikes... so its time to figure out the ammo thing. For starters I'm going to just go buy some factory ammo... cabelas has a sale... going to get some tula/herters/pmc. Mike. I believe Tula and Herters are steel cased. |
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Ya they are.. but it did the math and its cheaper to buy that and then just buy once fired brass than to buy brass loaded ammo.
Does WC844 meter well? I found that stuff for approx 30 cheaper than H335.. I know its mil surplus, but I'm trying to make ammo to hit a A zone on a USPSA target out to 300yds(going to do 3 gun), and thats almost the size of a sheet of paper haha... the more "match" type ammo, I will spend extra money on. What are you guys reloading your stuff for? Right now, doing the math I can make 55gr for $2.50 a box of 20 and 62gr M855 for $2.90 a box of 20.. is this a good deal? That was just a quick search online for what components I could find. Mike. |
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You might want to start reading here. AssaultRifler has made an excellent tutorial on reloading .223. He pretty much covers all the basics. Yes, ±1 grain is too much variation. You would be going for variations of ±0.1gr. For that you will need a good metering ball powder like TAC, H335, or many others. The crimp versus no crimp thing is a long running battle. I use the FCD. Some others do not. Do you like Ford or Chevy? jonblack +/- 1 grain is unacceptable. If you are bound to shoot a gunpowder that won't meter better than that, you are better off using a scoop into a pan on a scale, then trickling within +/- 0.2 to +/0.3 grains for a case the size of the .308 Win. Scoops are under rated. +/- 0.1 grain per throw is not necessary, although it makes the reloader feel better, it won't cause a tuned load to shoot better. Especially in large cases. A Uniflow with a baffle will throw RE-15 to +/-0.2 grains or better without much trouble, just keep the powder level at a nearly constant height in the reservoir and use a consistent hand on the handle. Scoops are underrated - do it right and you can get within .10 of a grain. I just ordered a Lee set today E: Typo |
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Hey everyone. My AR is on the way from Spikes... so its time to figure out the ammo thing. For starters I'm going to just go buy some factory ammo... cabelas has a sale... going to get some tula/herters/pmc. Mike. I believe Tula and Herters are steel cased. I reload my steel cases as well ... they are on 5th or 6th firing already. As long as they are boxer primed they will work fine ... just need a little extra lube. I did my monthly 5.56 prep just the other day. I was able to decap, size, and trim - 2,800 pieces in under three hours. This is all plinking ammo I run through at a rapid rate. I have my Lapua Brass that I save for my hunting and marksmanship shooting. The Dillon trimmer can't be beat on a progressive for speed .... it is a must for individuals that shoot a lot of plinking rounds. The Giraud is nice though for precision loads - I just don't shoot a high enough volume to use it that much. I bought my Dillon 1200 for $185, and it is the best money that I have ever spent. I don't measure cases or anything anymore - once I get a good bit of brass saved up (2k-5k) - then I set up the prep gear and off we go. If it hasn't stretched enough to need trimming then it just goes through, but if it has - then the trimmer takes care of it. The great thing about the Dillon 1200 - is that if you don't like it ... you can easily get your money back out of it by selling to someone else. Just like the superswage it retains it's value really well. Sarg |
Learn the process well with your single stage press,but for a minimum you have to trim your cases 
You can turn out a lot of 223 on a single stage press but sooner or later, if you get bit by the bug, you may want to get a progressive press but case prep still has to be done  My main powder now is TAC which meters
very well in almost all the powder measures,also another vote for H335 and the 55 gr fmj .....TAC is excellent for 69gr to 77gr match bullets (77gr may need a 1x8 twist) barrel. Later John |
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Hey everyone. My AR is on the way from Spikes... so its time to figure out the ammo thing. For starters I'm going to just go buy some factory ammo... cabelas has a sale... going to get some tula/herters/pmc. I currently reload, and have a single stage RCBS and a hornady LNL AP. I reload 308, 38spl/357mag, 45acp, 45colt, 45/75WCF soon to ad 300WM to it since my dad just bought one. I load my 308 for precision so I take the time to make sure each charge is the same etc... takes some time, can do 50 ish an hour... for the match 223 I will load the same way, but for plinking I don't want to sit there all day. The hornady powder drop rifle insert isn't very consistent... i can do +/- 1gr from my testing with IMR4064, this is my main issue with reloading rifles on the fly. IMHO IMR-4064 is too slow for 223, I tried it and it didn't shoot well for me. You are much better off with ball powder, it measures very accurate. BLC2, Tac, AA-2230, H-335 and W-748, all good ball powders. So a few question for you guys... what do you guys do to speed up the process/how do you guys reload it all? Do all the case prep first.... Tumble clean fired brass, lube and size, tumble off lube, trim (faster to trim all cases with a Giraud than to measure and then trim), remove crimp if needed, uniform primer pockets (optional), now cases are ready to load progressively. And do you guys crimp/FCD your ammo.. I only crimp FMJBT's with a cannelure. No crimp on the rest. I was going to since its will be shot out of a mag. No harm in that. Does a +/- 1 gr of powder make a big difference for plinking from your testing? Way too much in a small case like 223. .1gr is ok. Any powders that meter really well? See above. And with case lubing.. do you guys just lube and keep running it and clean them off once you have the shells finished? I don't, but you can if you want. Mike. |
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Yeah, do things in batches and use a progressive press as much as possible. And get a powered case trimmer (Giraud, Dillon for example). If you have a progressive and it can use a case feeder, get one, e.g. the Dillon 650. Buy extra primer feed tubes and fill them ahead of time. To keep things going smoothly weed out any brass that will stop the process like berdan primed brass. Check your loads frequently like every 100 or 200 rounds to make sure they fit the case gage and the amount of powder thrown is right, that way you'll save time by not having to pull a large number of mistake loads. |
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I looked into the dillon... how do you go about deburring the case? I see that it goes into your press and you simply set it and rotate the press.. does it deburr as well or is that something you'd have to do by hand? Mike. You don't have to deburr with them. Read all of the link in my first post and you'll see what I mean. It's a good read with lots of good info. Don't let his "modified" RCBS Lube die scare you....you can do just fine with it unmodified. You just have to add lube more often. His method might be easier with a removable-head press like a Dillon or RCBS, but there are a couple of guys who posted on that thread, who did it with LnL's .
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Since I double posted a minute ago I may as well add the link I'm talking about.
Buckets Full He actually uses a Dillon 650 and a Dillon 1050. The 650 Lubes and trims and the 1050 does the rest...exactly as the 1050 in boomfab's next post is used. Obviously 2 presses ain't possible for mere mortals like me, so using two heads is the next best thing....as per boomfab's post below. |
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.223 reloading fast? Dillon 1050 with two heads. First head with the Dillon sizer/trimmer, run all your brass through and then tumble. Second head with decapper, swage, prime, powder, bullet seat, taper crimp. That's the setup I have and it's super fast. I expect you lube with Dillon spraylube. Check out "Bucket Loads" in the post above yours. He does things almost identical you what you do, except for the lube die. His reasoning for the Lube Die? He keeps his case feeder tubes clean and dry that way...it is a really interesting read. I may actually have to try it someday. 
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Hey everyone. My AR is on the way from Spikes... so its time to figure out the ammo thing. For starters I'm going to just go buy some factory ammo... cabelas has a sale... going to get some tula/herters/pmc. I currently reload, and have a single stage RCBS and a hornady LNL AP. I reload 308, 38spl/357mag, 45acp, 45colt, 45/75WCF soon to ad 300WM to it since my dad just bought one. I load my 308 for precision so I take the time to make sure each charge is the same etc... takes some time, can do 50 ish an hour... for the match 223 I will load the same way, but for plinking I don't want to sit there all day. The hornady powder drop rifle insert isn't very consistant... i can do +/- 1gr from my testing with IMR4064, this is my main issue with reloading rifles on the fly. So a few question for you guys... what do you guys do to speed up the process/how do you guys reload it all? And do you guys crimp/FCD your ammo.. I was going to since its will be shot out of a mag. Does a +/- 1 gr of powder make a big difference for plinking from your testing? Any powders that meter really well? And with case lubing.. do you guys just lube and keep running it and clean them off once you have the shells finished? Mike. I load on single stage also. I use an rcbs powder measure. Use a "ball" powder for more consistent throws...like TAC (my pref). I don't use a FCD, just the crimp in the seater die but in a separate step. For the case lube issue, I usually size and then throw the brass back in the tumbler for and hour or two. This was the single best change I made as far as speed and consistency. |
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LOL.......that was funny...
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I currently use a lymans hand crank one.. but am considering converting it to an electric since the way it is now is a pain in the ass for high volume. MIke. You ain't kidding - after 40 cases and staring at 2K, it didn't take me long to call Giraud. |
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