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Posted: 1/7/2010 8:24:44 PM EDT
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I Just got a bunch of pulled M196 tracers.
I bought some H335 powder for it. Now my question is is that these are advertized as 55gr, i weighed them and got 52.8-53.6gr. Now they are about as long as an SS109, so my question is what load data should i use as a reference? My hornady book has a section for 52-53gr bullets and says a max of 24.2gr of H335. For 55gr a max of 23.2 H335 or for 60gr a max of 22.7gr H335. Now these maxes seem VERY low since i saw people worked loads up to 27gr of H335 for a 55gr FMJ.. So what kinf od load of H335 should i be using? Does it depends on weight or length. **Also note that i will be using the lee crimp and adding a heavy crimp to get better results with the tracers. |
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I am not sure, but IIRC H335 is not optimal for these projectiles. Most seem to recommend H4198. That being said, this is an obvious tag for clarification as well. Other powders were recomended, but many retailers and other forums said H335 worked well and was recommended. I was bored and tried to light one to make sure they were still good. Took a little bit with a butane lighter but it definetly lit up! I also read that if you poke a hole into the plastic "cup" at the end you will have a better % light up, but i dont want to be the first to try that. I bought these under the impressions that they light up around 50 yards, is that correct? |
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4198 is a bit on the fast side, it will work but you won't get the best velocity. Load based on the weight, not the length but start at the recommended weight, working up carefully. They are full bloom by 50 yards. What weight do I use? the 52-53gr section of the book of 55gr? |
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[I also read that if you poke a hole into the plastic "cup" at the end you will have a better % light up, but i dont want to be the first to try that. Not the first to try it. 
It helps some. But you'll want to keep em dry, so best to bore the holes then store in a ziploc with dessicant if you dont plan on seating them immediately afterward. Even then, if these are pulled surplus M196s (like I had), you won't get every single one to light. But it does help a bit. I've used Ramshot X-Terminator, H335 and H4895. The 4895 seemed to have the highest light ratio, but that's just from my minimal personal experiences. The other powders worked too... just not as well. I loaded them as I do my 55gr FMJ loads... light crimp, powder charge I ended up with (started at min) was a little more than halfway between min and max. Didn't have a chrono and given they were pulled surplus, wasnt loading for accuracy... so my standards were simply "Does it go bang?" Without boring the hole, distances to light seemed to vary from 75-150yd... if they lit at all. Boring the hole, distance to light was anywhere from [seemingly] immediate to 15yd... if it lit at all. Fun to watch em head down range. Amazing to skip em off water! Skipping M196 and M25 reloads off water was a great fireworks show. |
| I agree with DirtyDrews recommendation. I reduce my 55fmj loads by 1/2 to 1 grain of powder for loading the longer 54 gr. tracer. Over a chronograph my 54 tracers had about the same velocity with 1/2 grain less powder compared to 55fmj's. I'd load a few at 23 grains and work up to 24 grains of H335 powder with the red tipped M193 54 grain tracer. Now the even longer orange tipped M856 62 grain tracer requires even more reduction compared to the M855 green tipped 62 fmj. The army drops 1.7 grains of the same powder for the 62 gr. tracer versus the 62 fmj. I'd reduce M856 62 grain tracers a full 2 grains from a 62 fmj load. |
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I use surplus tracers in the past. I have purchased the "20% will light" batch before and have had good luck with 24gr H335 and a heavy crimp. Result was about 80% light inside 50 yards. Nothing is certain with these. YMMV I also use 24 grains of H335 with M196 bullets for cheap blasting ammo. It works well at 50 and 100 yards. I'm happy if they don't light. |
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I use surplus tracers in the past. I have purchased the "20% will light" batch before and have had good luck with 24gr H335 and a heavy crimp. Result was about 80% light inside 50 yards. Nothing is certain with these. YMMV I also use 24 grains of H335 with M196 bullets for cheap blasting ammo. It works well at 50 and 100 yards. I'm happy if they don't light. This with WC-844T.... actual tracer powder. I think my 500 bag of projo's lasted a few minutes. 4 or 5 of them lit. mine were crimped too.. Most all my loads are |
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[I also read that if you poke a hole into the plastic "cup" at the end you will have a better % light up, but i dont want to be the first to try that. Not the first to try it.
It helps some. But you'll want to keep em dry, so best to bore the holes then store in a ziploc with dessicant if you dont plan on seating them immediately afterward. Even then, if these are pulled surplus M196s (like I had), you won't get every single one to light. But it does help a bit. I've used Ramshot X-Terminator, H335 and H4895. The 4895 seemed to have the highest light ratio, but that's just from my minimal personal experiences. The other powders worked too... just not as well. I loaded them as I do my 55gr FMJ loads... light crimp, powder charge I ended up with (started at min) was a little more than halfway between min and max. Didn't have a chrono and given they were pulled surplus, wasnt loading for accuracy... so my standards were simply "Does it go bang?" Without boring the hole, distances to light seemed to vary from 75-150yd... if they lit at all. Boring the hole, distance to light was anywhere from [seemingly] immediate to 15yd... if it lit at all. Fun to watch em head down range. Amazing to skip em off water! Skipping M196 and M25 reloads off water was a great fireworks show. I was thinking of trying this out with a few before i load them. How did you do it? Punch a hole with a pin, or drill a small hole? |
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As rg1 said, I wouldn't recommend the use of any kind of powerdrill. I dont think there's any danger in doing so... but with how thin the cup is, the second you break thru that cup, you're digging into the compound.
For the M25s, with their copper cup... I was able to use a small punch to puncture it. For the M196s... I found it too difficult to "punch" a hole in the plastic. I used a very small drill bit that had a hex base, mounted into a screwdriver... and slowly twisted small holes by hand. I would've just used an xacto blade to pierce the plastic... but my clumsy self would've definitely sliced a few fingers that way. The small rigged-up 'hand drill' did the job easily. One other thing I tried with the screwdriver/drill bit... was with a slightly larger drill bit... where I removed the plastic, but not all of it. So instead of a small hole that pierced completely thru the cup, I removed just enough of the plastic as to make the cup extremely thin. It seemed to help vs doing-nothing... but whether or not it was as effective as those that were completely pierced, I can't say. |
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Well results werent so great =(.
0/5 lit with 22.7gr H335 and heavy crimp. 1/5 lit with 22.9gr H335 and heavy crimp. 1/5 lit with 23.1gr H335 and heavy crimp. 1/8 lit with 24.1gr H335 Heavy crimp and plastic cup drilled into. Did i drill too far and destroy the ignition compound? Im guessing i screwed up the ignition compound by drilling a too deep and wide hole. I'm also wondering if maybe playing with bullet depth might help? |
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