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Posted: 10/5/2009 6:30:12 AM EDT
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I have been reloading rifle brass for a while but have never done any pistol brass. I always assumed it was done the same as rifle but when I started researching it, as many of you know it is somewhat different. I have a few questions that would help me clear up conflicting information.
I was told you don’t need to trim pistol brass because it doesn’t stretch like rifle brass but have read that it should be trimmed, which is correct? Is flaring the brass just to make the bullet easier to seat? Do you have to flare? What would happen if you didn’t flare? |
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I have loaded a lot of various revolver and pistol ammo, so I will throw in my unscientific, unverified advice. All of this info is notwithstanding the accuracy issue, which is very minimal on pistols in regard to brass length. You can make the case for exactly the same brass length for more consistent seating, headspace, and powder burning, but, as far as my experience and talent will take me, I have seen no difference in accuracy between painstakingly prepared brass, versus grabbing a handful of used .45 ACP brass out of my five gallon buck full. If you buy new brass, do not worry about trimming, the new brass will be in specs. If you buy used brass, just measure a few to make sure. Pistol brass does not stretch near as much as rifle and will surely fail in other regards before stretching out of specs. Since most (none?) pistol bullets are not boat tail, if you do not flair, you will almost certainly scrape the bullet as it slides into the brass, perhaps even distorting the bullet and/or brass. My rule of thumb for flaring is just enough to notice by touch. c |
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IN MY HUMBLE, UNSCIENTIFIC OPINION
I have loaded pistol brass for many years and to me it is a piece of cake compared to rifle brass. Never have trimmed a pistol brass yet. I load lead bullets for .38 , .357 , and 45acp and I use a very minimum flare because you can then run into crimp problems. Just use enough for the bullet to seat in the brass. I use a taper crimp on my 45 acp and an oversized flare will cause problemss. Over crimping will also cause problems when you try to fit the rounds into a 45 acp. Follow the die instructions for adjustment and you will be very close. Also get a good case gague. |
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Reloading pistol ammo removes much of the hassle of reloading rifle ammo, namely the brass prep. As long as you have carbide dies, you dont need any brass prep other than cleaning the brass, which for me is a few mins in the tumbler.
When sizing rifle brass, the die pushes down on the shoulder which causes some brass to flow up the neck and make the brass longer. However, on pistol brass the sizing die compresses the case mouth directly which prevents the brass from getting longer. I have never trimmed pistol brass and have never seen a piece that was too long after sizing. This is obviously for straight wall pistol ammo, bottleneck pistol rounds like 357 sig, 5.7 & 7.62 x 25 would be treated like rifle brass in regards to trimming. As far as flaring goes, I just flare the brass enough that the bullet doesnt fall out though with lead bullets I found that I need to flare it just a little more to ensure I dont shave any of the bullet. I dont know that shaving the bullet would cause a safety issue, but I am sure that it would cause run-out issues with the bullet and probably affect its accuracy. On the other hand, too much case mouth flare overworks the brass and causes the brass to split at the mouth sooner. The other nice thing about reloading for pistols, at least for 9mm and 45, is that I dont worry about how many times the case has been reloaded. I just inspect them and if there are cracks or splits, I throw them out. |
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Oh man if you reload rifle now you will find pistol a breeze. I'm sure there is someone out there who will tell you to trim your pistol brass. You don't need to trim your pistol brass. As far as case mouth belling, yes, it's to start the bullet. You want to bell as little as possible, but if you don't bell you run the risk of crushing the case. Also on a progressive belling the case makes starting the bullet with your fingers faster and easier. But basically you do not want to bell too much because it overworks the case.
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If you don't flair the mouth so the bullet slides in without resistance you will eventually ruin some cases. The bullet will grab the mouth, instead of entering the case it will crush and rip it as the bullet is seated.
When loading lead, use enough flair so the case does not come out of the seating die smeared with bullet lube and lead around the case mouth. Otherwise you will be disassembling he dies on a regular basis to clean the built up lead and lube. It will cause your seating depth to vary as well as the crimps location. You can use a little less flair for jacketed bullets, but you still need some or several cases will get ruined as pointed out earlier. To me it helps to have enough flair with every bullet so the bullet stays in the case and no powder gets spilled or bullets fall out before it gets seated. You are going to love loading for pistols! You can knock out a lot of ammo in an evening once your dies are set up and you get in a groove. I find that most starting loads for magnum rounds are plenty hot for me. Saves wear and tear on the equipment. Edited to add; I have never trimmed a straight walled handgun case in over 25 years reloading. They get cracks in the neck or large primer pockets before that ever becomes an issue. Lots of reloads per case when compared to high power rifle rounds. |
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Quoted:
I have been reloading rifle brass for a while but have never done any pistol brass. I always assumed it was done the same as rifle but when I started researching it, as many of you know it is somewhat different. I have a few questions that would help me clear up conflicting information. I was told you don’t need to trim pistol brass because it doesn’t stretch like rifle brass but have read that it should be trimmed, which is correct? Is flaring the brass just to make the bullet easier to seat? Do you have to flare? What would happen if you didn’t flare? In order.... 1) Most pistol brass indeed does not stretch. I always measure brass fired from a new pistol to see if it is stretching. After that, I just occasionally spot check it to make sure I'm still within the SAAMI spec but generally, no, handgun brass does not stretch and does not need trimming. In fact, I actually find my 45 ACP brass sometimes will shrink a bit after many firings. 2) Flaring the brass is solely to allow seating the bullet without crumpling and crushing the case mouth. Whether or not you have to flare depends on the cases and bullets. I find that with my PMC brass and Berry's plated bullets, flaring is not necessary so I don't do it. With lead bullets, it is necessary so I flare when loading lead bullets. If you don't flare your case mouth your bullet may seat just fine. If so, don't worry about it. Some bullets may crush the case mouth without flaring, however. Know your components and proceed as necessary. |
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Quoted:
Reloading pistol ammo removes much of the hassle of reloading rifle ammo, namely the brass prep. As long as you have carbide dies, you dont need any brass prep other than cleaning the brass, which for me is a few mins in the tumbler. When sizing rifle brass, the die pushes down on the shoulder which causes some brass to flow up the neck and make the brass longer. However, on pistol brass the sizing die compresses the case mouth directly which prevents the brass from getting longer. I have never trimmed pistol brass and have never seen a piece that was too long after sizing. This is obviously for straight wall pistol ammo, bottleneck pistol rounds like 357 sig, 5.7 & 7.62 x 25 would be treated like rifle brass in regards to trimming. As far as flaring goes, I just flare the brass enough that the bullet doesnt fall out though with lead bullets I found that I need to flare it just a little more to ensure I dont shave any of the bullet. I dont know that shaving the bullet would cause a safety issue, but I am sure that it would cause run-out issues with the bullet and probably affect its accuracy. On the other hand, too much case mouth flare overworks the brass and causes the brass to split at the mouth sooner. The other nice thing about reloading for pistols, at least for 9mm and 45, is that I dont worry about how many times the case has been reloaded. I just inspect them and if there are cracks or splits, I throw them out. +1 on ease of reloading. I'm going to have 9mm and 45 ACP carbines in my safe just so I can shoot a "rifle" that I can load for quickly and easily. |
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Well I have had to trim pistol brass - .357 Mag in particular.
That particular brand was over Trim To length before I fired it. I have trimmed .45 ACP brass of widely mixed brands to make flare and ‘crimping’ uniform. (actually taper crimp in the case of .45 ACP) As far as flare, I have found if it is just discernible by touch and requires a straight edge while holding it up to a light, works great on jacketed bullets. Lead may require a bit more. But if it looks like a loading block full of brass funnels, you have gone way too far 
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Quoted:
I have been reloading rifle brass for a while but have never done any pistol brass. I always assumed it was done the same as rifle but when I started researching it, as many of you know it is somewhat different. I have a few questions that would help me clear up conflicting information. I was told you don’t need to trim pistol brass because it doesn’t stretch like rifle brass but have read that it should be trimmed, which is correct? I have never trimmed pistol brass, it doesn't stretch like a bottleneck rifle case. You can load pistol brass for as long as the primer pocket lasts or some other flaw turns up in the brass. If you plan on loading .357sig you would have to treat that like a rifle round as it could stretch at the shoulder. Is flaring the brass just to make the bullet easier to seat? Do you have to flare? What would happen if you didn’t flare? Yes flaring the brass makes it TONS easier to seat the bullet, Yes you should flare, just don't overdo it, you should have a barely noticeable flare at the case mouth. If you don't flare and shave off the sides of lead cast bullets, accuracy can be a problem, possible loading into the chamber as well if the bullet is seated crooked. On jacketed rounds more than likely you will crush the side of the case. Pistol is so much easier to load than rifle any day of the week. |
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If I could jump on your band wagon OP, does the pistol brass need to be chamfered and deburred at the mouth when you first get it? Spot check new brass to see if it's got burs; if it does, debur, if not, don't worry about it. Burrs come from trimming, but the factory will debur after trimming to finished length during manufacturing, so it's unlikely you'll get one that needs it. Also unlikely you'll get new brass that needs sizing, but it's a good idea to spot check for that too. |
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If I could jump on your band wagon OP, does the pistol brass need to be chamfered and deburred at the mouth when you first get it? Spot check new brass to see if it's got burs; if it does, debur, if not, don't worry about it. Burrs come from trimming, but the factory will debur after trimming to finished length during manufacturing, so it's unlikely you'll get one that needs it. Also unlikely you'll get new brass that needs sizing, but it's a good idea to spot check for that too. You don't need to deburr generally. Personally though I never trust the factory sizing exactly an always resize new brass. If you are using a progressive press it doesn;t add any time. And of course with pistol brass there is no lubing cases so you don;t have to worry about that. |
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