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Posted: 9/1/2009 6:21:08 AM EDT
| I just ordered a RCBS primer pocket swager combo from Cabelas to clean up a lot of brass I have with crimped primers. Has anyone used one of these? I hope to fix this brass without taking off any metal. |
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Oh boy. This tool has been around for 40 years, I've had one for 38 of them. It can work sometimes. What I'm about to share with you is about 7.62X51mm LC Nato brass and trying to stuff CCI primers into it.
First, you have to adjust the part that looks like a die, so that the rod in the center is against the inside of the shell casing head-metal when a case is inserted. The "die" has to be screwed into the press, such that when the press stroke is complete, the swager plug (mounted like a shell holder) completely goes into the primer hole...to the hilt. The swager plug itself is a cylinder supposedly with enough diameter to swage or move the crimp (metal ring) back to where it was before the crimping process. That plug is rounded on top to make it possible to start it in into the smaller hole caused by the crimp. Then it increases in diameter until the crimp is forced back. The base of the plug is also rounded with a fillet. You have to force the fillet into the primer pocket also, to make the primer pocket edge open a bit so a new primer will enter the swaged hole without deforming it.( Again plug has to be in to the hilt) If all that is done, it's supposed to be swaged enough, and the new primer should be a piece of cake to put in. At least with CCI's (sister company to RCBS by the way) it doesn't always work. I've crushed a few cases and they all seem too hard to press in. It so happens that at this time am working with an RCBS engineer to figure out what the problem is. (I have 3 of the large plugs and none of them swage quite enough.) Today I will send them a half a dozen swaged cases and my swager tool. (a new one in addition to the one I've had for 38 years.) I will keep you all up to date about what happens. BTW, I also tried to use their uniformer, in the Trim Mate, to uniform the swaged pockets. Disaster. It seems that because the crimp is not totally removed, the uniformer wants to catch on the way down to the bottom of the pocket. That makes a spiral ridge down the sides of the pockets and makes the primer even harder to press in. A primer will go in, but only to just above flush. Unfortunately, the additional force required (using a hand primer tool or my press) over-seats (crushes?) the primers .003 to .005 inches too far. It may be that my LC brass is work-hardened (or age-hardened ? I collected it off a National Guard range in the early 70's), and flexes, then bounces back from the swage instead of moving and staying put as it should. Therefore your brass may not do all of this nasty stuff. 
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Be sure to sort your brass by headstamp, or you will bend the rod.
Why? Different cases have a different web thickness, so each case (headstamp) will use a slightly different adjustment. After you think you have swager adjusted properly, try seating a primer in a couple of cases, to test the adjustment. You don't want to find all the cases you "thought" you swaged still will not seat primers. Good luck Except for "bending the rod" the above advice applies to the Dillon Super Swage also. |
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Quoted:
I just ordered a RCBS primer pocket swager combo from Cabelas to clean up a lot of brass I have with crimped primers. Has anyone used one of these? I hope to fix this brass without taking off any metal. I have owned and used one. I didn't like it. Since you already bought it...........well, you'll find out soon enough the downside. I now use a reamer tool. Aloha, Mark |
| I've swaged a few thousand .223 and hundreds of 30-06 primer pockets. First follow the directions that comes with your RCBS swager and if that doesn't work try the following . I swage in a RockChucker press. This is how I do the swaging in the RockChucker. I screw the swage die with the rod downward until my press handle is just below horizontal when the swager punch contacts the primer pocket. I start lowering the press arm and when it gets to nearly horizontal I POP the handle down with some force to do the swaging. If the primer pocket is heavily swaged and I feel the tightness I raise the press arm and hit it again. Some crimped cases are easy to swage and some brands or lots have a lot of brass to move before the crimp is ironed out. I haven't bent or broken either the small rod or the larger one. Also a little case lube on the primer swage punch every few cases makes it easier. The above is not in the instructions but worth a try. Also if crimps are very heavy and the swager is having trouble then a turn or two with your case mouth deburr tool to remove just a little of the crimp will make swaging easier. And the RCBS swager is NOT going to make primer pocket mouths" exactly" like uncrimped primer pockets. It will remove enough of the swage that any primer will seat properly without damaging the primer but it feels a little tighter when seating primers with RCBS swaged cases. I also haven't hurt the press by banging down on the press handle. |
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Take a look about 3/4 ways down the page...........
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/squeezeplay/index.asp Aloha, Mark |
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For some reason ma76782's web link won't display with my Internet Explorer. If your's won't go to:http://surplusrifle.com/
––click on "Articles" near the top of the page ––click on "search all articles" ––when the search box opens write in "rcbs swage" ––3 or 4 articles are listed and click on the 1st ––scroll down towards the bottom of the page Great article suggested by ma76782 with pictures using the RCBS Swager and the link given is correct. Don't know why it won't display for me. |
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Quoted:
Take a look about 3/4 ways down the page........... http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/squeezeplay/index.asp Aloha, Mark Above url doesn't work try this That article describes very well how it's supposed to work. But as in my first post it doesn't always. Pushing my 1968 and 1972 .308 LC brass all the way in does not even work. In fact if I take a bent sewing needle and run it up and down the sides of the pocket, out comes a smashed slivered ring of brass displaced below the original crimp. That means it's moving a portion of the crimp down the pocket rather than pushing it back from the pocket as it should. After taking out the sliver, I can feel, with the point of the needle, a ridge where the bottom of the crimp meets the pocket wall below. Surprise, surprise...the ridge is the same thickness as the sliver that was pushed out. That tells me that the swager buttons I have (and I have three) are undersized even when driving them in all the way and, the buttons shear metal off the crimp rather than push it back from whence it came. Maybe a lubricant should be used? The directions don't mention such a thing, that I've found. Or maybe the buttons need polished. |
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Quoted:
i use one but still trim a bit of metal off the lip it lets the primer slide in smother ,i use a lee hand primer Yes, I've done that too, but now that I use a progressive and don't wish to use a hand primer, I would prefer a swager that works every time.  If that isn't possible, I may as well forget the progressive for crimped military brass unless I use the RCBS Trim Mate's military crimp reamer that removes a whole bunch of metal. Been through that option with the RCBS engineer. That's why he wants to see my swager and brass.
BTW check your swaged pockets to make sure you are not pushing your primer down with and on top of the sliver of brass that I found in mine. I wonder if the Dillon 1050 guys run into this sort of problem, seeing that they have a swaging station built-in to their press? |
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GWhis said: This is a POS (my words) . Took awhile but he and the others pointed out mine exactly. Should send yours back when you get it. If you lived across the street, I'd give you mine, bent rods and all.
I'm Dillon swager fan, as I only use one brand of cases so I don't need to adjust the support rod. If you collect range brass or mixed Mtg. brass you might want to consider a reamer. I prefer to move the crimp as oppsed to remove the brass. Plus you don't end up with primers that look like top hats. As intoo high pressure. 458 |
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Sorry.....I had some unwated (extra) script in there.........this should work.........
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/squeezeplay/index.asp OR use the link from GWhis (it's the same one). Aloha, Mark |
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I just bought a hand reamer cuz it was cheap and I figured I spend enough time in front of the tv, I can be reaming primer pockets. My question is ...
Has anyone ever had a case failure or bad/ dangerous experience using a reamer as apposed to swaging? I'm talking actual experience, not theories guesses or premonitions. |
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gearhead721,
I've not had a bad failure (with either method). But, don't get me wrong. Because, I believe that the Dillon swage and/or reamer have a place. It has to do with how you like to do things, the QC of the maker and knowing that there are some downsides to both methods. But for some drinking BLUE KOOL AID ..........well, they'll never admit that there is a "downside" with their be-loved Dillon. So beware of the hype from them. Aloha, Mark |
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Quoted:
I just bought a hand reamer cuz it was cheap and I figured I spend enough time in front of the tv, I can be reaming primer pockets. My question is ... Has anyone ever had a case failure or bad/ dangerous experience using a reamer as apposed to swaging? I'm talking actual experience, not theories guesses or premonitions. As long as you use a primer pocket reamer with a built in stop, you will be GTG. When people use deburring tools and countersinks with no stop, it is possible to remove too much metal, weakening the case. I recommend the Hornady reamer Link. Get the handle also. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I just bought a hand reamer cuz it was cheap and I figured I spend enough time in front of the tv, I can be reaming primer pockets. My question is ... Has anyone ever had a case failure or bad/ dangerous experience using a reamer as apposed to swaging? I'm talking actual experience, not theories guesses or premonitions. As long as you use a primer pocket reamer with a built in stop, you will be GTG. When people use deburring tools and countersinks with no stop, it is possible to remove too much metal, weakening the case. I recommend the Hornady reamer Link. Get the handle also. If I had it to do over, I would go with a crimp removing countersink tool. The swager is having to do too much work on the hard case head brass, moving the crimp ring back out. The brass at the swaged site, is put into compression, so it does very little to reinforce the structure of the case head. As long as one does not get carried away, I think the countersink operation is less tedious. You are not going to be bending back-up rods like you occasionally do with the swagers (RCBS or Dillon). Don't assume you can remove the crimp ring by using the Primer Pocket Uniformer end mill. I found out the hard way that does not work. |
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