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Posted: 8/10/2009 2:59:14 AM EDT
I have read over several threads here and have found most of my answers but still have a few questions. Basically, I am looking at buying a reloading press setup and I have a good idea of what I want but have had trouble finding information on some of the RCBS units. Although I am very impressed with the Dillon products, I am going with RCBS for several reasons; I grew up using my dad's RCBS press and therefor have an assortment of dies that I have already bought for it over the years. My main reason however, is that said father works for ATK, who as many of you know, owns RCBS (as well as CCI, Speer, Federal, and several others) meaning that I get their products pretty much at cost (ridiculously cheap). That and I'm partial to the color green 
I have found very limited information on the Turret press. Is it considered a progressive system or does it just have holes to hold multiple dies to cut down on changing time. I am looking at either it or the Pro 2000 progressive system. I know that the pro 2000 is the better of the two but it is also more expensive and my question is for someone with a large assortment of pistol and rifle calibers that typically processes say 300-500 rounds at a time, is the pro 2000 worth the extra money? Also, I have been unable to find an explanation of the indexing function and the difference between automatic and manual indexing. I just want to make sure that I don't make it down the road and wish I had gotten the other one so any of you having experience with one or the other (or knowing some of you, both) any and all enlightenment is greatly appreciated. Thanks |
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The Pro 2000 with manual advance is a superior press. I haven't tried one with the new auto advance. Manual index simply means you advance the tool head with a finger. Auto advance does that with a mechanism.
Turret presses are usually simply single stage operations with a circular tool holder on top. Each operation is completed, then the head rotated to the next die and operation. The exception are the LEE Classic Cast Turret and their aluminum frame turret presses which are a sort of hybrid which advances the tool head through each operation automatically unless the advance is disconnected. You might consider a Rockchucker, too. |
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Let me start by saying that I own and use my RCBS RockChucker for loading rifle cartridges.
I also own three LEE M1000s for pistol cartridges. I just like to crank out rounds on those so I don't "experiment" with various charge weights or bullets. Then, I also have a Dillon.........though the Dillon doesn't get much use now a days. Mostly because of my ammo needs and how I like to do things. Consider............as for which press style. YOU have to decide how you like to do things and IF it's worth it to you to spend the money. Example (say for .223 Rem.).............. Do you like to experiment with loads? Or do you like to just crank them out, without changing anything? Do you like to trim everytime? Do you like to prep primer pockets everytime? Do you want to clean off the lube at the end? Or do you want to clean the lube off in a liquid bath (or tumbler) before seating a bullet? Is your press going to be dedicated for only one caliber? Or do you expect that single press to also load a variety of calibers? Consider the cost of a caliber switch and the time and labor involved to "set up" for a different caliber. BTW..........with very few exceptions, dies (and shell holders) are mostly interchangeable among all of the big name mfns of presses. 
Also consider........."other parts" start to vary greatly. This might be a factor if you need to buy replacement parts. Aloha, Mark |
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I Agree with everything AeroE said.
for someone with a large assortment of pistol and rifle calibers that typically processes say 300-500 rounds at a time, is the pro 2000 worth the extra money?
Answer is yes! With the Pro 2000, I'm set up toI load 3 pistol calibers, and 5 riflle cartridges, one press, 8 die holders. I have some time right now so I'll elaborate on my experience with it. I've used a Rock Chucker for 25 years or so. It lasts forever and will do about anything I need . That said, last December I celebrated my 59th Birthday by pouring through internet sites researching the same things as you are now doing. At my age, I have way less patience with batch loading on a single station press. Finally I have the money to entertain things like progressive presses. There are many informative web sites on such things. One of the best is "Realguns.com" (See end of post) Cutting to the chase, I almost bought a Dillon 650, but after watching a friend with his, I decided on the simpler (fewer moving parts and doodads) RCBS Pro 2000. Besides, I already had a Uniflow Powder measure, so buying the Pro 2000 meant that I now had two. One for the big capacity drum and one for the small capacity drum. I did buy a micrometer metering upgrade for my old 25 year old measure. (mic ed Uniflow is part of the Pro 2000 package) My old Uniflow is identical to the ones they still sell today. The Dillon begs you to buy a whole new powder measure for each caliber you reload. I like Dillon, but not enough to buy 8 powder measures. I'd rather keep my records of the mic settings for each caliber on the Uniflow! It is cheaper, space saving, and fast and easy. I did entertain buying a turret press, but it's still a single station press. Time savings is comparing changing dies by hand or turning the turret. The Lee Turret automates the turning of the turret like AeroE said, but that just encourages you to load one cartridge at a time instead of in batches. I question whether that saves time, and I'm a believer that you makes less mistakes loading in batches. On the Pro 2000, you can start with the manual version, and upgrade it with the auto index kit later if you want. There is absolutely no difference between a auto Pro 2000 or a manual version, except for the few parts you add that are in the upgrade kit. I couldn't find an auto version, so I bought a manual press plus the kit. I took a $40 hit buying it that way. Big deal, for what you get. I didn't bother with the manual side. But the auto indexing requires you to go very slow at first, to learn and get used to the process. For pistol reloading I don't really do anything but crank them out using the Auto index. I conceal carry, but I don't carry reloads. Practice ammo doesn't require loading match quality. The RCBS doesn't do this type of reloading as quite as fast as a Dillon, because you have to manually place a case AND a bullet. The Dillon has a pretty good auto case-feeder that becomes very good if you part with a lot more money and buy their collator, so only the bullet is manually loaded. RCBS now has a bullet collator-feeder for $390 at Midway, so you can equal the Dillon speed if you think you need it. The RCBS APS primer system is superior to anything out there, safety-wise, and it's just as fast to load with, with no worries about flipped primers or tube explosions. For rifle reloading I only use the progressive to, prime, drop powder, seat, and crimp. You still have to prep and trim your cases. That's still a slow process. After I tumble my brass, using the Rock Chucker, I resize/decap, then swage military brass if needed. I tumble the brass again slightly to delube it, then it's time to trim the brass. The brass is finally ready for the Pro 2000 after I deburr, chamfer, and uniform the pockets using the RCBS Trim Mate. (I should buy a Dillon pocket swager and trimmer to speed up all the prep. It's only money)  Finally, the Pro 2000 does the rest...fast, fun and painless. For me cranking rifle ammo out like pistol ammo isn't possible. Trimming is almost always a necessity. Long cases can cause bad things to happen, especially in a gas-operated semi-automatic.
I recommend you read the following reviews at Realguns.com: RCBS Pro 2000 http://www.realguns.com/archives/166.htm RCBS turret press www.realguns.com/archives/047.htm Lee Classic Turret press http://www.realguns.com/archives/122.htm If I ever decide to replace my Rock Chucker...it'll probably be the Lee Classic Turret press. That'd make A nice companion for my Pro 2000.
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Quoted:
Thanks for all information. Excellent links GWhis––info helped a lot. I have decided to go with an auto indexing RCBS Pro 2000. Green, Red, and Blue progressive presses are all quality machines and they all have their pros, quirks and cons. Ya just have to pick one and learn the system, and be patient until you're up to speed. You have a pretty good reason (your Dad's insider position with the built-in advantage to buy at cost) to choose green. Plus there are many RCBS strong points. Simplicity, Safety (APS priming system), Exchangeable Tool Head, Great mic-metered powder measure in an off-toolhead location, and finally we have a auto bullet feeder that addresses the speed issue. At my age I just plain forget sometimes to load both items. The bullet feeder can make me feel young again! 
Dillon owners often toot the product support horn and it IS important. But RCBS product support has always been the equal of Dillon's. I should tell you about two quirks and work-arounds on the Pro-2000. 1. The press handle starts high at Point Zero. You raise the shell holder into the dies by pulling the handle down all the way. Then you lower the shell holder and index by raising the handle to Point Zero again. You prime with the APS system by continuing past Point Zero (pushing the handle toward the bench). Now, Point Zero is critical if things go slightly wrong, such as you forgot to insert the case , the bullet is placed poorly, or you aren't paying attention and you run out of powder. If your handle goes even a tiny bit past Point Zero, the next primer starts up out of the primer strip. That scenario prevents you from pulling the primer strip out. The simple FIX (if you're still in control of your emotionsand haven't broken the strip) is to either finish priming that round if you can, or push the primer back down with a rod, dowel, or bolt so that it is again flush with the top of the primer strip. Then things work fine again, and you can pull the primer strip out if you want. I wrote to rcbs to suggest that they put a detent at point zero, so one naturally stops the stroke where you should. (I'm not holding my breath....but, hey YOU have access to an insider, hint, hint.)
2. The other quirk is that you can't take the primer feed off line. There are times when all things aren't going perfect (usually operator error) or you have a case already primed and you need the primer feed off-line. I made a little part out of a small piece of aluminum, a spring, and a thumb screw, that is screwed into the side of the primer mechanism. It takes it off line with a twist of the thumb screw and reverses with an opposite twist, all with no effect on original parts. Be glad to show Pro 2000 owners this simply-made trick if there's any interest. |
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I was about to type up a whole review, but Gwhis beat me to it. I've been using the Pro 2000 since 2001, and it's a great press! That said, if I were to buy *today*, I'd be seriously looking at a Hornady Lock N Load. But seeing as how you are getting the discount on RCBS stuff (get me some too!), the Pro 2000 is a great machine! No matter what press you get, consider the parts you'll need for a quick caliber change. For the RCBS you need the dies, tool head, shellplate, and "star". Going from memory, the dies are about $35, tool head was $30, Shellplate was $30, and the indexing star is $10. So that's a little over $100 per caliber. But once you have the dies set, the only adjustment you'll need (as GWhis said) is dialing in the powder drop. I love the APS primers! Especially if you buy them preloaded (check out GRAFS if you can't get them directly through your source). Manually loading empty APS strips kinda sucks, as does getting the press out of sequence and needing to address a primer stuck in the shellplate or some such. So if you can find them, get them preloaded! Speaking of which, GWhis, I'd love to see that mod you mentioned. Overall, I'm very happy with the RCBS, but for a full on bells and whistles, churn out ammo fast without the blue Kool-Aid, the Hornady LnL gets my vote! |
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Quoted:
I was about to type up a whole review, but Gwhis beat me to it. I've been using the Pro 2000 since 2001, and it's a great press! That said, if I were to buy *today*, I'd be seriously looking at a Hornady Lock N Load. But seeing as how you are getting the discount on RCBS stuff (get me some too!), the Pro 2000 is a great machine! No matter what press you get, consider the parts you'll need for a quick caliber change. For the RCBS you need the dies, tool head, shellplate, and "star". Going from memory, the dies are about $35, tool head was $30, Shellplate was $30, and the indexing star is $10. So that's a little over $100 per caliber. But once you have the dies set, the only adjustment you'll need (as GWhis said) is dialing in the powder drop. I love the APS primers! Especially if you buy them preloaded (check out GRAFS if you can't get them directly through your source). Manually loading empty APS strips kinda sucks, as does getting the press out of sequence and needing to address a primer stuck in the shellplate or some such. So if you can find them, get them preloaded! Speaking of which, GWhis, I'd love to see that mod you mentioned. Overall, I'm very happy with the RCBS, but for a full on bells and whistles, churn out ammo fast without the blue Kool-Aid, the Hornady LnL gets my vote! You must not load for very many calibers if you're drooling over the LNL.  . Great press and they have a case feeder... but no exchangeable tool heads.
Be advised that auto indexing Pro 2000's don't use the "stars", so... Not counting the dies (which is the same no matter which press you choose), to add a caliber you need a tool head ($19 from Grafs), and a shell plate...only sometimes ($31 from Grafs). The .45 acp and the .308 Winchester both use the same shell plate, for example. So, at maximum, to add a caliber you spend $50 @ Grafs + 4.50 shipping. Dies can be expensive or cheap. Lee dies are the best value, $27 or $37 for pistol (3 die carbide set or 4 die set with the f. crimp die included). Rifle dies are $16.59 (Lee) $24(Lee w/factory crimp, or $31 (RCBS) all Grafs prices. You can see I like Grafs. Well, besides good listed prices for the most part, their shipping is a flat $4.50, whether you order one die, or if you order 3 presses, 100 dies, and a tee shirt.
needing to address a primer stuck in the shellplate
Reread the part about pushing the primer back down with a bolt, dowel, or something.
About the Mod, I will see if I'm smarter than my wife's digital camera, then I gotta check the thread where it explains how you add pictures to this forum. Give me a day or two.
BTW, I wrote an email to Grafs yesterday to see about RCBS's bullet feeder. (its not in the website catalog) They replied with a part number RCBS82350, and said I could back order it and could expect delivery in 2 to 4 weeks. I trust 'em. I ordered it! RCBS PRO2000 BULLET 120V BULLET FEEDER KIT PISTOL (RCBS82350)
1 in cart –– $373.39 each Subtotal: $373.39 Handling & Insurance: $4.50 Total: $377.89 I will review the RCBS bullet feeder, which by the way will work on most progressive presses, as soon as I get it and figure it out! Yes! Finally! |
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About the Mod, I will see if I'm smarter than my wife's digital camera, then I gotta check the thread where it explains how you add pictures to this forum.Give me a day or two.
Okay, so it wasn't as hard as I thought. I posted pictures in the thread "RCBS Pro 2000 Primer Feed Mod Pictures" |
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The Pro 2000 with manual advance is a superior press. I haven't tried one with the new auto advance.
This is very important If you or anyone else reading this thread ever decide to upgrade a manual index press with the auto index upgrade kit. The detent spring on the manual press...(see instruction 12 here http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/Pro-2K_AutoIndexUpgradeKit.pdf...is too strong for the auto mechanism. That means that when it auto indexes (no matter how slow you move the handle) powder literally jumps out of a case and onto your new auto indexing shell plate. Not good. I emailed RCBS and they said it needed a lighter spring. Why it wasn't included in the kit only they know. Instruction 12 explicitly tells you to use the detent spring and ball from your manual shell holder. In 2 days the UPS guy delivered the new spring (free of course) and it works great. So if you buy the upgrade kit and it has a spring in it...they learned. If no spring you gotta email them and get a spring coming or you will have powder all over the place and light powder charges. |
Well all my RCBS gear finally arrived this week so I will be driving up to my dad's place in the morning to get it all  . Since the press itself was placed on back order (they said 1-3 months before it would ship), I have been putting off building my bench so now I am going to have to make a trip to Lowe's and get this thing built as soon as I get back . I'll be sure to post up pics here and the Official Bench Thread when I have it all complete. Thanks again for all the info you guys posted here and elsewhere in the forum––keep up the fire! 
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