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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Tumbling after Loading? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/25/2009 6:41:25 PM EDT
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Does anyone else tumble after loading their ammo?
I use Hornady One Shot for lube on my .223 and once I'm done loading and crimping, I always tumble in clean media to wipe off the lube. I'm obviously not worried about it but wonder who else out there does this. Separate question-What is your round count for .223 using a single stage press? Right now I can get about 50 quality rounds (sized, primed, powder, bullet, crimped and cleaned) in an hour. |
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You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. Why is it that NO MATTER how many time we cover this topic, someone still POSTS THIS BULLSHIT? 
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You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. Why is it that NO MATTER how many time we cover this topic, someone still POSTS THIS BULLSHIT? markm, It's NOT all pure BS. And, know that your declaration is potentially DANGEROUS. Yes, there have been arguments pro and con. But...........it's not that simple of a question: Can I/should I............tumble live ammo? Yes or No. Yes, this site believes that it's safe to tumble live ammo. Note: the FAQ at the top. That being said..........I take a different view. My view is a little more cautious. So, getting back to the issue. Note that: RCBS (and there might be more manufacturers) and other re-loaders have given WARNINGS against the practice..........in an effort to hopefully prevent personal injury. One can never be certain of the level of intelligence of the audience. Note how, Army manuals are written. Then realize that: Some people choose to take more RISK and some choose to be cautious in the light of possible personal injury. You may want to take the RISK. But, someone else may not be FULLY AWARE of all of the risk factors involved before they make a decision. I don't believe that you intentionally want to see anyone injured and I respect the fact that this is America and you have a right to an opinion............even an opinion that could lead to personal injury. Perhaps, you could/should tone it down a bit and speak directly to the issue as to why you feel it's entirely safe to tumble loaded ammo? Humm.........this reminds me of the warnings against using re-loaded ammo. But, that's another subject. Aloha, Mark |
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I've posted this before........
It's NOT a good idea to tumble live ammo.........
http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/tumble.html Or, maybe just for a short while.......... http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/why-you-should-not-tumble-clean-loaded-ammo/ But...........Why wouldn't you rather err on the side of SAFETY? ______________________ I agree, that when tumbled, some powders might be better than others for stability. But.....what about old "surplus ammo".........or "foreign manufactured" ammo? Would it still be a good idea to tumble loaded ammo in those cases? And, how long is too long? Those that make the blanket statement............. "It's OK to tumble loaded ammo." IMHO...........well, they may not be considering the full consequences of their statement. Aloha, Mark PS...........dispatch55126, From your first post.........it appears that you've made the decision to tumble live ammo. So be it. THAT, also goes for the others that have looked at the issue and have made their own personal decision to take the risk. You choose..........what is right for you. However.........know that, the WARNINGS are there for a reason. |
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I use RCBS water-soluble lube in sizing rifle cases, and then rinse the cases off in hot water and let them dry. This completlely removes any traces of lube that might possibly have a negative impact on either the powder or primer.
Since my ammo might be stored for an indeterminate time, the possibility of lube "creep" into a primer or onto the powder is a possibility that I choose to avoid. Tumbling ammo would not remove all lube from inside the case neck, nor any lube that might be somehow find itself placed within the primer pocket prior to priming the case. I don't tumble loaded ammo because if case prep is done properly, tumbling is not necessary. That said, I have serious doubts about the practice, those doubts growing rapidly with the time duration of tumbling. I do not advocate it, and would caution any of my students to avoid doing so. This is one of those things that people do and say afterwards that "Nothing bad happened, so it is OK". Well, some golfers have golfed well enough during a storm, and they survived. Problem is that things have to go wrong BUT ONCE, and it is a life-changing––or life-ending––event. When I can, I choose to use my head and avoid those kind of situations. YMMV. |
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You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. Why is it that NO MATTER how many time we cover this topic, someone still POSTS THIS BULLSHIT? markm, It's NOT all pure BS. And, know that your declaration is potentially DANGEROUS. Yes, there have been arguments pro and con. But...........it's not that simple of a question: Can I/should I............tumble live ammo? Yes or No. Yes, this site believes that it's safe to tumble live ammo. Note: the FAQ at the top. That being said..........I take a different view. My view is a little more cautious. So, getting back to the issue. Note that: RCBS (and there might be more manufacturers) and other re-loaders have given WARNINGS against the practice..........in an effort to hopefully prevent personal injury. One can never be certain of the level of intelligence of the audience. Note how, Army manuals are written. Then realize that: Some people choose to take more RISK and some choose to be cautious in the light of possible personal injury. You may want to take the RISK. But, someone else may not be FULLY AWARE of all of the risk factors involved before they make a decision. I don't believe that you intentionally want to see anyone injured and I respect the fact that this is America and you have a right to an opinion............even an opinion that could lead to personal injury. Perhaps, you could/should tone it down a bit and speak directly to the issue as to why you feel it's entirely safe to tumble loaded ammo? Humm........ But, that's another subject. Aloha, Mark You should watch how the ammunition is handled after loading on a high speed machine. Let alone the shipping it endured before even getting into a cartridge, or the shipping after it is loaded. ....this reminds me of the warnings against using re-loaded ammo.... And we know those warnings are absolute BS. |
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You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. Why is it that NO MATTER how many time we cover this topic, someone still POSTS THIS BULLSHIT? markm, It's NOT all pure BS. And, know that your declaration is potentially DANGEROUS. Yes, there have been arguments pro and con. But...........it's not that simple of a question: Can I/should I............tumble live ammo? Yes or No. Yes, this site believes that it's safe to tumble live ammo. Note: the FAQ at the top. That being said..........I take a different view. My view is a little more cautious. So, getting back to the issue. Note that: RCBS (and there might be more manufacturers) and other re-loaders have given WARNINGS against the practice..........in an effort to hopefully prevent personal injury. One can never be certain of the level of intelligence of the audience. Note how, Army manuals are written. Then realize that: Some people choose to take more RISK and some choose to be cautious in the light of possible personal injury. You may want to take the RISK. But, someone else may not be FULLY AWARE of all of the risk factors involved before they make a decision. I don't believe that you intentionally want to see anyone injured and I respect the fact that this is America and you have a right to an opinion............even an opinion that could lead to personal injury. Perhaps, you could/should tone it down a bit and speak directly to the issue as to why you feel it's entirely safe to tumble loaded ammo? Humm........ But, that's another subject. Aloha, Mark You should watch how the ammunition is handled after loading on a high speed machine. Let alone the shipping it endured before even getting into a cartridge, or the shipping after it is loaded. ....this reminds me of the warnings against using re-loaded ammo.... And we know those warnings are absolute BS. Rough handling, either during manufacture or transport is one thing, but deliberately placing the ammo in a vibratory tumbler––for that is what they are–– is another thing altogether. As for warnings about using reloaded ammo, they are mis-worded. What should be said is a caution against improperly reloaded ammo. Some would say that tumbling the ammo, after all you claim it has gone through might be adding insult to injury. After all, if the handling and processing is so rough, is it wise to add to that abuse? |
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I don't (or haven't) tumbled loaded ammo. However, I don't go start to finish on my rounds in one sitting either. I just started reloading (using my fathers press and equipment) and had about 800 rounds to load. I went through De-primed / resized all the cases. Went back and trimmed all the cases (including deburring any sharp edges). Now i'm going through the third time and putting in primer, and powder and bullets around 50-100 in a batch. I did 100 rounds (primer/bullet/powder) in about 45 minutes couple days ago, but all the other work had been done.
This process may change after the bulk loads have been done, and im only doing say 50 or 100 at a time though. |
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You should watch how the ammunition is handled after loading on a high speed machine. Let alone the shipping it endured before even getting into a cartridge, or the shipping after it is loaded. As an experiment........... Put say 10 empty brass cartridge cases in with some media.............. Lot #1..........in an old ammo can and drive around for say 4 hours. Lot #2..........in a tumbler or vibratory cleaner for the same amount of time. Think you'll see any difference between the two lots, when the experiment is over? Then, to address the 2nd part (actually, a snip-it "mis-quote" from the first part of my statement). I actually said......... Humm.........this reminds me of the warnings against using re-loaded ammo. But, that's another subject.
Again, it's not just a pure BS warning. It's there for a reason. YES...........most of us can recognize that the LAWYERS require some WARNINGS to be stated in writing..........just as "cover." WE KNOW that when done properly..............handloading your own ammo can be very rewarding. But, when done improperly...........DANGEROUS SITUATIONS and CIRCUMSTANCES could result. You may probably know someone that has trouble doing certain things correctly, no matter the amount of guidence or help that they may (or may not) receive. Yup, they can still manage to %^#@ things up. So........the WARNING is there. Again, you get to decide for yourself. What you choose to do. Aloha, Mark |
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You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. if thats true, how come all major manufacturers tumble their loaded ammo as a last stage before boxing it? edit to add: how about all the surplus ammo that has been half way across the globe? german wwII 8mm ammo shoots just fine despite severe wear marks from being bumped around in the back of a truck, plane, boat, etc... do a scientific study, tumble the shit out of some ammo, then use a chrony. please post results to settle this debate once and for all. i would put money on the burn rate not changing enough to affect anything. |
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You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. if thats true, how come all major manufacturers tumble their loaded ammo as a last stage before boxing it? edit to add: how about all the surplus ammo that has been half way across the globe? german wwII 8mm ammo shoots just fine despite severe wear marks from being bumped around in the back of a truck, plane, boat, etc... do a scientific study, tumble the shit out of some ammo, then use a chrony. please post results to settle this debate once and for all. i would put money on the burn rate not changing enough to affect anything. That's a good idea. We'll use YOUR rifle, and YOUR body to test. OK? |
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Quoted: Quoted: You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. if thats true, how come all major manufacturers tumble their loaded ammo as a last stage before boxing it? edit to add: how about all the surplus ammo that has been half way across the globe? german wwII 8mm ammo shoots just fine despite severe wear marks from being bumped around in the back of a truck, plane, boat, etc... do a scientific study, tumble the shit out of some ammo, then use a chrony. please post results to settle this debate once and for all. i would put money on the burn rate not changing enough to affect anything. I was going to post this, but you beat me to it. As a side note: from the time when I pressed opened this thread and pressed "quote" for your post you had edited your post. I didn't see it, but your edit was placed in my post. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. if thats true, how come all major manufacturers tumble their loaded ammo as a last stage before boxing it? edit to add: how about all the surplus ammo that has been half way across the globe? german wwII 8mm ammo shoots just fine despite severe wear marks from being bumped around in the back of a truck, plane, boat, etc... do a scientific study, tumble the shit out of some ammo, then use a chrony. please post results to settle this debate once and for all. i would put money on the burn rate not changing enough to affect anything. That's a good idea. We'll use YOUR rifle, and YOUR body to test. OK? So this means you will supply the ammunition and the chronometer. I'm game, meet me at Pelham Fish and Game. |
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You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. if thats true, how come all major manufacturers tumble their loaded ammo as a last stage before boxing it? edit to add: how about all the surplus ammo that has been half way across the globe? german wwII 8mm ammo shoots just fine despite severe wear marks from being bumped around in the back of a truck, plane, boat, etc... do a scientific study, tumble the shit out of some ammo, then use a chrony. please post results to settle this debate once and for all. i would put money on the burn rate not changing enough to affect anything. I would venture to guess that each ammo maunfacturer that makes NEW (or new re-loaded) ammo has based their procedures and practices on their own experience. And, they probably take some safey precautions. Then, the powder that they use is more than likely new powder and may differ from what you probably have from the store. But.........it still goes back to........... Is it OK to tumble loaded ammo? 100%..........YES or NO. Aloha, Mark PS............did you read the link(s)? Or, do you have to see things with your own eyes before you believe anything? |
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I used to put the finished product in a vibratory cleaner to get the lube off for a "Short Period of Time", like 5 or 10 minutes, but don't do it any more.
I just haven't been about to figure out what it is about powder that would keep it from grinding itself into dust over time like rocks would grind themselves into dust if left in a lapidarist tumbler too long. If I do go back to the vibratory cleaner to get the lube off it will be for very short periods. |
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Does anyone else tumble after loading their ammo? I use Hornady One Shot for lube on my .223 and once I'm done loading and crimping, I always tumble in clean media to wipe off the lube. I'm obviously not worried about it but wonder who else out there does this. Separate question-What is your round count for .223 using a single stage press? Right now I can get about 50 quality rounds (sized, primed, powder, bullet, crimped and cleaned) in an hour. 1) I've tumbled them live, but prefer to do them while the case is still empty. They seem to move around alot better without the weight of the bullet. 2) If my brass is sized and primed before hand, I can charge and press 200/hr on my RCBS single stage. |
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hollow points should not be tumbled, as the media can get in the hollow cavity, and make them less effective. also for 223 and 308 i could see them getting slightly deformed if left in too long or banging around against one another too much...
FMJ are good ot go. i too do not tumble rifle rounds, i do do pistols as those do not need case prep and i need to remove the case lube. however for my long term loads, i will be resize deprime the brass and then tumbling, then loading, as i do not wish to risk a single FTF due to case lube wetting the pwoder. i know, very rare, but the stuff i put back for "long term" is ammo i would like to be able to trust my lift to, that it will go bang every time i pull the trigger. |
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You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. if thats true, how come all major manufacturers tumble their loaded ammo as a last stage before boxing it? edit to add: how about all the surplus ammo that has been half way across the globe? german wwII 8mm ammo shoots just fine despite severe wear marks from being bumped around in the back of a truck, plane, boat, etc... do a scientific study, tumble the shit out of some ammo, then use a chrony. please post results to settle this debate once and for all. i would put money on the burn rate not changing enough to affect anything. I would venture to guess that each ammo maunfacturer that makes NEW (or new re-loaded) ammo has based their procedures and practices on their own experience. And, they probably take some safey precautions. Then, the powder that they use is more than likely new powder and may differ from what you probably have from the store. But.........it still goes back to........... Is it OK to tumble loaded ammo? 100%..........YES or NO. Aloha, Mark PS............did you read the link(s)? Or, do you have to see things with your own eyes before you believe anything? Mark, nothing is 100% I read the article and and I would bet that he loaded his 44mag with a fast burning powder and did not want to fess up to it. Almost all if not all manufacturers tumble their final product. As do I. I use several vibratory and a cement mixer. The only time I don't is with hollow points. Brass is polished after sizing. However I do often polish loaded HP's with dry ceramic. But I digress. I have tumbled in the mixer for hours. Powder in not effected, and there is no change in runout. Then, the powder that they use is more than likely new powder and may differ from what you probably have from the store.
Do you not use new powder? OEM's use a proprietary blend, yes. The store bought powder is just as new. |
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Flamethrower said.......
Mark, nothing is 100%
I read the article and and I would bet that he loaded his 44mag with a fast burning powder and did not want to fess up to it. (About this subject) Yes, it may not be a 100% situation all of the time. THAT, was the point. And, when there is doubt, I'd rather err on the side of SAFETY. Then.......you want to call the guy a LIER........so be it. You can e-mail him if you wish, I believe the e-mail address it right there in the article. As for ME.........I have no reason (at this point) to call his veracity into question. So, I believe him. Anyway, I had originally done a point by point response to your post. But, I decided against it. Hey, I provided the links.........so, believe what you like and do what you like. _____________________________ Then........for anyone who wants to tumble or vibratory clean loaded ammo (new, re-loaded, surplus, American or foreign) and assuming, that you have read the links and KNOWING what the links have said.......let me ask you? In the future, are you willing to be held liable (or be in the loop) for any injuries and/or damages that may occur as a result of YOUR ADVICE if you continue to simply say......... "It's OK to tumble and/or vibratory clean live ammo, the practice is SAFE." or........maybe you'll add some warnings (or disclaimers) of your own? Aloha, Mark |
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For those that like to point out that loaded factory ammo is tumbled................
Did you miss it? The quote is from the second link............ Consider this commentary from the Fr. Frog website:
Q. Is tumbling loaded ammunition dangerous? Answer: “…Extensive tumbling can cause the breakdown of the powder grains. This would have two major effects. First, smaller grains will ignite more quickly than larger grains, and second the deterrent coating on the outside of the grains may be rubbed off and will be absent from any fractured edges which will cause the powder to burn more quickly raising pressures. Tests run some years ago by a commercial entity did indicate that potentially dangerous changes in powder charge burning characteristics do take place after PROLONGED periods in either a vibratory or a tumbling cleaner. The key word here is prolonged. Many manufacturers of ammunition do a final cleaning of their product either by tumbling or a vibratory process before boxing it for shipment. In no case is this allowed to exceed more than just a couple of minutes. The intent is not so much to “polish” but to remove any traces of contaminants which might in time leave marks on the finished product. There seems to be a consensus among the ammunition manufacturing engineers that a minute or two of vibratory cleaning has no discernable effect on burning rates, especially for loads that are compressed, or nearly so. However, all have emphasized the need for EXTREME CAUTION not to overdo the process. They also pointed out that there is a considerable difference in effect on the powder charge depending on whether the process is by ‘tumbling’ or ‘vibrating’. It would appear that tumbling has less effect on the powder than vibrating, though this is mostly a matter of degree. The admonition to use EXTREME CAUTION to insure that the process never exceeds a couple of minutes applies equally to either process.” *I did the color............for added emphasis. So beside, what powder? Add the time factor and method into the equation........ "How much time are you talking about and what method are you using?" Aloha, Mark PS..............for those that don't believe what's written on the Internet........... or only believe it, when they see it.......... or will only believe a personal experience of someone that they know............ I'm sorry to once again disappoint you. |
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You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. if thats true, how come all major manufacturers tumble their loaded ammo as a last stage before boxing it? edit to add: how about all the surplus ammo that has been half way across the globe? german wwII 8mm ammo shoots just fine despite severe wear marks from being bumped around in the back of a truck, plane, boat, etc... do a scientific study, tumble the shit out of some ammo, then use a chrony. please post results to settle this debate once and for all. i would put money on the burn rate not changing enough to affect anything. That's a good idea. We'll use YOUR rifle, and YOUR body to test. OK? So this means you will supply the ammunition and the chronometer. I'm game, meet me at Pelham Fish and Game. Hell, no, I'm not going to be a party to an experiment whose consequences might injure a person and/or damage their property. I don't need to be a lawyer to figure that out. If tumbling ammo is no problem, then tumble the test ammo for varying time durations, and begin with the shortest. Let us know when you see a velocity change. Thanks for volunteering. |
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You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. if thats true, how come all major manufacturers tumble their loaded ammo as a last stage before boxing it? edit to add: how about all the surplus ammo that has been half way across the globe? german wwII 8mm ammo shoots just fine despite severe wear marks from being bumped around in the back of a truck, plane, boat, etc... do a scientific study, tumble the shit out of some ammo, then use a chrony. please post results to settle this debate once and for all. i would put money on the burn rate not changing enough to affect anything. That's a good idea. We'll use YOUR rifle, and YOUR body to test. OK? So this means you will supply the ammunition and the chronometer. I'm game, meet me at Pelham Fish and Game. Hell, no, I'm not going to be a party to an experiment whose consequences might injure a person and/or damage their property. I don't need to be a lawyer to figure that out. If tumbling ammo is no problem, then tumble the test ammo for varying time durations, and begin with the shortest. Let us know when you see a velocity change. Thanks for volunteering. I will do it with my ammo equipment and rifle. Not a problem. you set the Charge weight, case type, bullet type and weight, primer and powder brand and type. You set the duration of time in a tumbler or a vibratory polisher. I am more than happy to do this. So let's hear it. Put your money where your mouth is. |
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So beside, what powder? Add the time factor and method into the equation........ Either type from 30 miutes to 2 hours. "How much time are you talking about and what method are you using?" As said before rotory and vibratory. Aloha, Mark PS..............for those that don't believe what's written on the Internet........... Really Mark, you beleive everything you read on the internet? That is just plain sad. or only believe it, when they see it.......... or will only believe a personal experience of someone that they know............ I'm sorry to once again disappoint you. Quoted:
In the future, are you willing to be held liable (or be in the loop) for any injuries and/or damages that may occur as a result of YOUR ADVICE if you continue to simply say......... "It's OK to tumble and/or vibratory clean live ammo, the practice is SAFE." or........maybe you'll add some warnings (or disclaimers) of your own? Aloha, Mark Really Mark? I think it would be easy to prove in a court that not everything on the Net is accurate. Being liable, don't think so. I am already in the loop, that is what my insurance is for. On the same note, Mark I am sure you have never said anything that has been incorrect or not entirely true. Also relaoding is inheirently dangerous. This is fact. Tumbling loaded or non loaded ammo is part of the reloading process, thus being dangerous. |
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hollow points should not be tumbled, as the media can get in the hollow cavity, and make them less effective. also for 223 and 308 i could see them getting slightly deformed if left in too long or banging around against one another too much... FMJ are good ot go. i too do not tumble rifle rounds, i do do pistols as those do not need case prep and i need to remove the case lube. however for my long term loads, i will be resize deprime the brass and then tumbling, then loading, as i do not wish to risk a single FTF due to case lube wetting the pwoder. i know, very rare, but the stuff i put back for "long term" is ammo i would like to be able to trust my lift to, that it will go bang every time i pull the trigger. My Black Hills 68 gr 223 rounds have polishing media in them, and both the new and the reloaded stuff is quite shiny. So they tumble, and use the same media reloaders do. ETA: Even if only for a few minutes, it's pretty effective. For all we know manufacturers use Brasso, since they never have to reload their own cases. Where I keep getting lost is people worry about their primers or powder getting case lube on them. I either use Lee or other non-reactive stuff, or apply oil from a pad that only lubes the outer wall of the rifle case - there is no excess. Am I doing this wrong or something? |
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You are playing with fire tumbling loaded rounds. You can remove the coating off the powder thus changing the burn rate characteristics and pressure inside the case. Do what you want but I love my face the way it is. if thats true, how come all major manufacturers tumble their loaded ammo as a last stage before boxing it? edit to add: how about all the surplus ammo that has been half way across the globe? german wwII 8mm ammo shoots just fine despite severe wear marks from being bumped around in the back of a truck, plane, boat, etc... do a scientific study, tumble the shit out of some ammo, then use a chrony. please post results to settle this debate once and for all. i would put money on the burn rate not changing enough to affect anything. That's a good idea. We'll use YOUR rifle, and YOUR body to test. OK? So this means you will supply the ammunition and the chronometer. I'm game, meet me at Pelham Fish and Game. Hell, no, I'm not going to be a party to an experiment whose consequences might injure a person and/or damage their property. I don't need to be a lawyer to figure that out. If tumbling ammo is no problem, then tumble the test ammo for varying time durations, and begin with the shortest. Let us know when you see a velocity change. Thanks for volunteering. I will do it with my ammo equipment and rifle. Not a problem. you set the Charge weight, case type, bullet type and weight, primer and powder brand and type. You set the duration of time in a tumbler or a vibratory polisher. I am more than happy to do this. So let's hear it. Put your money where your mouth is. No way I'm getting involved in this test. It's all yours, buddy. Have fun, and take careful notes. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. |
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[begin quote]Quoted: So beside, what powder? Add the time factor and method into the equation........ Either type from 30 miutes to 2 hours. "How much time are you talking about and what method are you using?" As said before rotory and vibratory. Aloha, Mark PS..............for those that don't believe what's written on the Internet........... Really Mark, you beleive everything you read on the internet? That is just plain sad. or only believe it, when they see it.......... or will only believe a personal experience of someone that they know............ I'm sorry to once again disappoint you.[end quote] **MY GREEN ADDED. To show YOUR addition. Would you do ME and the reader(s) a favor? STOP for a minute to quote me correctly. IF, you use blue to indicate your statements.........that's good. But, don't mislead the reader(s) with your words mixed in with mine (same font and same color as my words). Aloha, Mark. PS............when you use words like "everything" did you/do you really THINK that I believe everything on the internet? I said: "As for ME.........I have no reason (at this point) to call his veracity into question. So, I believe him." You, on the other hand..............called him a LIER (or implyed strongly that he LIED) without evidence. Quoted:
I read the article and and I would bet that he loaded his 44mag with a fast burning powder and did not want to fess up to it. |
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Really Mark? I think it would be easy to prove in a court that not everything on the Net is accurate. Being liable, don't think so. I am already in the loop, that is what my insurance is for. On the same note, Mark I am sure you have never said anything that has been incorrect or not entirely true. Also relaoding is inheirently dangerous. This is fact. Tumbling loaded or non loaded ammo is part of the reloading process, thus being dangerous. Yes, making a "mistake" is part of being human. "Intentionally, Knowingly, Recklessly, Negligently" They are called the 4 states of mind. State of mind in a criminal case has to be proved. In a civil case.......not so much. Most times..........when people give advice............ "it's well meaning." But, when someone gives advice that just categorically throws a well known STATED WARNING out the window.........the amount just seems to get bigger. If you're not worried about a lawsuit............so be it. But.........at least care about the people that may get hurt, as a result of your advice. Money alone can't always make up for an injury or loss. Aloha, Mark PS..........And, I know (in my heart) that you didn't intend to mis-lead others when you didn't use blue for your comment/statement............it was a "mistake." _______________________ YES........I frequently re-word my posts. I make mistakes too........I'm human. |
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Does anyone else tumble after loading their ammo? I use Hornady One Shot for lube on my .223 and once I'm done loading and crimping, I always tumble in clean media to wipe off the lube. I'm obviously not worried about it but wonder who else out there does this. Separate question-What is your round count for .223 using a single stage press? Right now I can get about 50 quality rounds (sized, primed, powder, bullet, crimped and cleaned) in an hour. I tumble my loaded rounds for 15 to 30 minutes to clean them. Done it for years with no ill effects. I load on a single stage press, but couldn't tell you what my round count is. I tend to batch reload. I'll resize and decap a few hundred cases for a couple of days then a couple of days spent trimming and deburring, maybe a couple of days swagging primer pockets then put them away to load another day and move on to prepping brass for another caliber for a few days. I may prep thousands of cases before loading any of them. I prep on a Rock Chucker and load on a Lee. |
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I avoid the possibility of problems by doing batches or step reloading. I do my case prep ahead and tumble a second time after sizeing to remove lube .
I have batches of primed , ready to go cases all set aside in zip lock bags that I just select a powder charge and bullet and slap together. At this point all my rifle stuff is on a turret press so batches are the way to go |
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Really Mark? I think it would be easy to prove in a court that not everything on the Net is accurate. Being liable, don't think so. I am already in the loop, that is what my insurance is for. On the same note, Mark I am sure you have never said anything that has been incorrect or not entirely true. Also relaoding is inheirently dangerous. This is fact. Tumbling loaded or non loaded ammo is part of the reloading process, thus being dangerous. Yes, making a "mistake" is part of being human. "Intentionally, Knowingly, Recklessly, Negligently" They are called the 4 states of mind. State of mind in a criminal case has to be proved. In a civil case.......not so much. Most times..........when people give advice............ "it's well meaning." But, when someone gives advice that just categorically throws a well known STATED WARNING out the window.........the amount just seems to get bigger. If you're not worried about a lawsuit............so be it. But.........at least care about the people that may get hurt, as a result of your advice. Money alone can't always make up for an injury or loss. Aloha, Mark PS..........And, I know (in my heart) that you didn't intend to mis-lead others when you didn't use blue for your comment/statement............it was a "mistake." _______________________ YES........I frequently re-word my posts. I make mistakes too........I'm human. Let me address both posts here. Yes I forgot to add the other sentence in blue. Yes honest mistake. I hope people figured out you were not addressing yourself in the third person. I have every right to question the gentleman in the article. Simple fact is, "we" only have his word. He could be lying ore he could be telling the truth. Neither one of us can prove beyon a shadow of a doubt if he is truthful or not. I don't remember me saying anything about tumbling loaded ammo being safe or 100% safe. I explained what I do. If someone wants to jump off the perverbial bridge with me, that's up to them. Also I will quote word for word the warning in the Dillon Precision CV-2001 & CV-500 case cleaner, that was packaged with my 6 month old 2001. The manual says on the cover that it was written/printed in May 2007 Tumbling Loaded Ammo
Some people have taken to tumbling their loaded ammunition to remove the lube on the brass cases. While this does work, remember to not exceed 15-20 minutes of tumbling time. We have found that lead bullets or exposed lead on jacketed bullets becomes dirty black and are not easily cleaned. Well it looks like I am off the hook. In the end poeople will do what they want. I never told anyone to do what I said. I did not put a gun to their head and made tham do it. I, at no point ever said that ANY part of the loading/reloading process is safe or unsafe. While it is admerable for you to want to protect the masses, I refuse to go around in life putting a warning label or disclaimer on the words I say or type. If someone wants to try and sue me for something they did, after reading a post on the internet, and not research any other methods. I am here and waiting. This is one of the many things that are wrong with society. People looking to blame someone else for a mistake they made. I am not saying tumbling live ammo is a mistake. Disclaimer. YMMV |
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I do it all the time. No issues. For those who vote "against it!" - please post your PERSONAL experiences and problems you PERSONALLY experienced (I wouldn't hold my breath for responses). Do you LEARN only by personal experience? Aloha, Mark What WAS I thinking?!?!! I just re-read your internet post telling me that, despite my years of my own personal experience (as well as my reloading students' experience) - all without incident, I/we have been running a huge risk of "giitin' blowed-up!" You are right Mark (despite your having NO personal experience here). I was wrong (in spite of what I/we experienced. It obviously counts for nothing). I will now blindly follow your internet advice. In fact, I just re-read the portion of my original Glock owner's manual telling me how dangerous reloading is in general; I will also follow that advice (blindly); I have decided to give up reloading entirely since someone told me it could be dangerous. Happy? |
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I do it all the time. No issues. For those who vote "against it!" - please post your PERSONAL experiences and problems you PERSONALLY experienced (I wouldn't hold my breath for responses). Do you LEARN only by personal experience? Aloha, Mark What WAS I thinking?!?!! I just re-read your internet post telling me that, despite my years of my own personal experience (as well as my reloading students' experience) - all without incident, I/we have been running a huge risk of "giitin' blowed-up!" You are right Mark (despite your having NO personal experience here). I was wrong (in spite of what I/we experienced. It obviously counts for nothing). I will now blindly follow your internet advice. In fact, I just re-read the portion of my original Glock owner's manual telling me how dangerous reloading is in general; I will also follow that advice (blindly); I have decided to give up reloading entirely since someone told me it could be dangerous. Happy? You've taken things to a new level........ My statement, in response to your challenge............was/is as simple as this example: Your mother says not to jump off of the roof because, you might get hurt. So, do you listen to your mother? Or......do you NEED to find out for yourself? Then perhaps, your other friends have done it without hurting themselves. Does that mean that your mother's advice shouldn't be heeded? So, do you WARN your own children? Or do you say, "Children, go ahead and jump off of the roof. I don't know of anyone who has gotten hurt from doing it. It's ONLY an old folks warning (and/or INTERNET MYTH)." This is a simple example of what my post meant..........IF, YOU want to read more into it..........go ahead. Aloha, Mark |
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Flamethrower,
Thank you for providing your quote from Dillon. FYI.........here is one from RCBS........ RCBS says for their vibratory cleaner: "Do not attempt to clean loaded ammunition under any conditions."
www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/Vibratory_Case_Cleaner_Instructions.pdf RCBS says for their tumbler: "Do not attempt to clean loaded ammunition. To do so could result in cartridge detonation causing serious personal injury." www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/SidewinderCaseTumblerInstructions.pdf Aloha, Mark |
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Flamethrower, Thank you for providing your quote from Dillon. FYI.........here is one from RCBS........ RCBS says for their vibratory cleaner: "Do not attempt to clean loaded ammunition under any conditions."
www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/Vibratory_Case_Cleaner_Instructions.pdf RCBS says for their tumbler: "Do not attempt to clean loaded ammunition. To do so could result in cartridge detonation causing serious personal injury." www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/SidewinderCaseTumblerInstructions.pdf Aloha, Mark I don't think anyone here thanks it is not dangerous to a degree. Yes anything can happen. Hower I don't think dismissing it as to dangerous to do is right either. As an example. This is true. It happened to me last week. While I was empying my bullet feeder a few fell out of my hand. The feeder is about 2 feet off the bench top. I had a few loose primers scattered about. One of the bullets hit a primer with the anvil up and bang it went. What are the odds of it happening again? It sure can result in cartridge detonaton. As read from the Sidewinder book. I don't hink anyone who tumbles loaded ammo does not know the risk. I would venture to guess that it would not cause a mass detonation if one went off. It could however. You know if, If's and But's were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas. Many things are dangerous in life. I could get blindsided by a bus today and be smeared all over the pavment. This does not keep us from driving now does it? If your only goal here was to warn people that is could be dangerous than great. Mission accomplished. Other than that I am not sure what your point is? I am going to keep doing what I am doing. If I die as a result please come to my funeral and you can say I told you so. As a side note. You have to be a lawyer. Also what is the deal with the aloha thing? You live in Hawaii or from there? |
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I load on a Dillion Press. I load about 1000 rounds an hour once I get into a good groove. Stopping to tumble off the case lube after the re-size would be insane as far as I am concerned.
I tumble every live round that I spit out of that press. Pushing 40k loaded and tumbled thus far. At least 15k have been shot by myself or the guy that helps me load on occasion. Never a problem. I have also shot appleseed matches with my loaded/tumbled ammo and did not experience any sort of varriation on where my shots went. Obvoiusly YMMV but for me, I will continue to tumble my loaded ammo. |
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I do it all the time. No issues. For those who vote "against it!" - please post your PERSONAL experiences and problems you PERSONALLY experienced (I wouldn't hold my breath for responses). so out of 2 pages of this do we have any other bad "personal experiences" other then the 3rd person 44mag story? |
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I do it all the time. No issues. For those who vote "against it!" - please post your PERSONAL experiences and problems you PERSONALLY experienced (I wouldn't hold my breath for responses). so out of 2 pages of this do we have any other bad "personal experiences" other then the 3rd person 44mag story? There is always a potential for disaster in anything you do. If people still want me to do the test, I will. |
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I base many of my actions on theories and/or possible risks with facts that make sense. I understand all that... I was just wondering if there were any other actual first hand bad experiences from others who regularly post here.
so far its zero. just pure curiosity. not trying to prove a point. |
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Flamethrower,
I use to live and work as an LEO in Honolulu, HI. Thus, I've had many an occasion to meet with many a lawyer looking for his next case/buck. And, through speaking with them.......you kind of get to know how they think. Not to mention, that my administration was always quick to point out liability issues with most everything we did. A lot of times, there was always someone to point out something that could have been done differently to lessen the liability on the Department. The complaints against the police from the public were always investigated. Even the most, "stupid ones." So, good or bad........we took to looking both ways and were careful about what we said in public. ____________________ Speaking of FREAK ACCIDENTS. A recruit once dropped a round on the pavement at the range during qualification. It went off and IIRC the recruit was injured. Jeez......the stars must have been aligned for that to happen. Mind you, I wasn't there on that day. But, I'm not one to doubt that story just because, I wasn't there to witness it. Course........there are those that would say, "Cops can't be trusted, they're always lying." Well........."Whatever." Aloha, Mark PS............as for an experiment..........perhaps, this is a case for Myth Busters? 250 gr bullet, 24 gr. Vithavuori N110, in 44 Mag. One lot Tumbled and another Vibratory cleaned say: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 24 hours. Tested for pressure and velocity........against a control group. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Tumbling after Loading? (Page 1 of 2)
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