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Posted: 10/7/2008 8:15:59 PM EDT
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Does the lee 1000 perform multiply tasks at one station --hole ? I don't see how 3 stations does all that is needed. Station 1, decap - size #2 prime,, #3 powder Does anyone hear load with one? I am in the market for a progressive and want to make a well informed decision. Thanks for everyones input I have gotten already. I am leaning towards the dillion 650 with the case feed but the lee is way less cash but two less stations. I want speed and quality cause my 223 has been eating lots of ammo. |
I'm a big believer in "buy once, cry once." Buying on price will lead to a long time of disappointment. The higher price will be forgotten in a month or two.  No one ever complains about a Dillon 650--that's a big "fer sure."  I have a pair of 550Bs and love them. <shrug> |
| want my opinion? I have a Lee Pro 1000, it is an absolute piece of poorly engineered junk. The primer feed assembly is prone to jam, the shell plate carrier is an indexing nightmare awaiting failure and once you lose a primer the powder drops into the carrier and destroys all hope...your only option is dis-assembly and a thorough cleaning. I bought mine for .45 and .223/5.56, it gets used for .45 only. I have a Lee Classic Turret press for rifle, it does the job rather well and has 4 stations, soon though i will transition to the Blue Kool-aid |
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Quoted: I think I read some where you had to use hornady dies with there press. Is that true? quote] No,, someone fed you a line. You can use any brand except for the dies that don't have the 7/8X14 threads,, dies for the tru-line Jr, and the nut cracker 310 lyman tool won't fit. 'Borg ETA I use RCBS, standard Lyman, Redding, Pacific, Dillon, Forster and Herters dies in my Hornady L&L AP |
+1 I just set up my 650. First press I've ever had, other than a Lee hand press I bought while I was waiting for the Dillon box to arrive. All I can say is  Every penny was money well spent. |
No it is not true. You can use any standard die. I have heard of problems with some short pistol calibers such as .380 and possibly 9mm (heard both ways on this one) the Factory Crimp Die comes up short. But I cannot attest to this personally. |
Now come on BK1 we both know there have been a number of threads with some real problems with Dillon's. Case feed problems, powder spillage, primer feeding problems. No press is w/o quirks. Hornady presses sometimes take some subtle adjustments to set-up correctly. Once done they run very well. The Hornady LNL I have I bought off a member here that could not get it to run correctly. I bought it, put it back together when it got to me and it took right at 20 mins. worth of tweaking to get it to run virtually perfect. A minor pawl adjustment, a minor tweak to the primer feed and an adjustment to the case activated powder drop was all it took. That was after the previous owner had a crack at it. I also have an older Pro-Jector which has a less desirable primer feed system and more difficult shellplate changes. Not that way with the LNL |
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I wouldnt use a 3 station press for straight wall pistol calibers, for rifle it's enough if you don't crimp or use a roll crimp. For pistols you need station 1: size/deprime station 2 bell mouth/drop powder, station 3 seat bullet, and the 4th station should be taper crimp If you had a 3 station press you could do the first three steps the first time around, then remove all the dies and install just a taper crimp die and finish them off |
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I'd prefer to have 5 stations on my 550B, but I make do with 4. 3 is not enough for pistol calibers IMHO, as I prefer to seat and crimp in two operations. The pro 1000 sizes, deprimes, and primes in station 1, expands and powder drops on station 2, and seats and crimps on station 3 IIRC. |
I use the Pro 1k for 223 and 9mm, and it's fine even if you want to crimp separately, which I do. I crimp all mine in a single stage, and I've got a system set up where I can run them through with the quickness. As for being 3 stations - First station deprime on upstroke Second reprimes on the downstroke, then bells/dispenses on the up. Third seats(+ crimp on some dies) on the up. Pretty simple, and very effective. Anyone who can't use a Lee tool is just too impatient to set it up properly and pay attention to it. Sure, you can pay 2-3x as much for an idiot-proof press, but if you don't need that kind of protection, why bother? I don't mind other folks saying how they love their Dillon, RCBS, etc., but don't bash Lee equipment because you haven't got the sense to use it properly. Not all of us have a money tree in our yard. With that said, buy Lee if you're confident in your ability to troubleshoot and tweak until you tune the press. Once you do that, it works great. If you're looking for it to run like a sewing machine right out of the box, look elsewhere. It is what it is, and that's a budget reloading press. |
Huh? "I didn't read the directions and can't figure out how to set XXXX up" is hardly "unhappy."  Have you EVER seen a thread asking "I don't care for my Dillon press--what else is out there?" I haven't.  I'm not telling him to not buy what you did (LNL). I affirmed what he is leaning toward and told of my experience. I don't care what he buys, as I will likely never meet him. I've tried to answer his questions, which is the purpose of the forum. The decision is his, but I have given accurate information.  |
Amen to that! I loved my 12 year old 550's so much that I upgraded to a 650 and couldn't be happier. Granted, I thought long and hard about it... the LNL is one very capable and well built press. But in the end I went with the tried and true blue. I don't think anyone would be disappointed with a LNL though. I would have kept wishing I had just got the Dillon, but that's my own personal hang-up. I know from playing with them that the LNL is a good system. I started on a Lee... what a nightmare. Lee presses require so much tinkering, readjustment, customization (using files and Dremels to get things like the primer feed system to work) that it could easily turn someone off of reloading if they didn't know better systems like the Dillon or Hornady existed. You do get what you pay for. |
If a Dillon 650 isn't running right, 99% of the time the new user has done something to cause the problem. They are shipped pre-set, already adjusted, all you have to do is put in your dies and set them. Adjust the powder dispenser and start loading. If you got the optional case feed system, you have to set it up which takes all of 5 minutes and is VERY easy. I spent more time mounting the press to my bench than I did setting the press up to load. Now, on the off chance something is broken or not properly adjusted a quick call to Dillon will get you back on track very quickly. If a part is broken (rare), they will put one in the mail for you that day - no questions asked. Even if you *think* something *might* be wrong with a part, no questions asked... another one is in the mail. You don't have to send the defective part back, nothing. Even if you do something silly and break a part screwing with it, no problem... another one is in the mail. No cost to you.
The LNL does require more assembly than the 650. The 650 comes shipped with the caliber you specified already installed (shell plate, primer feed, case feed pawl assembly) and adjusted at the factory. The LNL requires you to put all this together and adjust it. For a first time reloader this might be a bit confusing if they're not familiar with progressive presses or reloading. It's hardly a flaw with the LNL. Hornady could personalize their service a little more like Dillon does and set it up and test it for you before shipping, but that would translate into higher cost... something I suspect Hornady is trying to avoid in order to be more competitive with Dillon (assumption on my part). |
There have been LOTS of problems with the seating/crimping die. Almost any experienced reloader will tell you that seating and crimping should be done in separate stations. Just say'n. |
well, i can just about figure out every problem with the Lee Pro 1000, I've been troubleshooting for a long time now and the shell plate and primer feed are shit...period. I can read instructions and when Lee states you should only have to index the Shell plate once they are full of it. I have to turn the screw one 1/8th of a turn every 20-30 strokes or the primers feed sideways there is a problem with reliability. I have changed the index gear twice and the same problem occurs consistently. The wall thickness of the gear where it mates with the index rod/bar is too thin and made of nylon and fails prematurely. I can follow instructions, i can tweak but when the problem occurs over and over it gets to be frustrating to say the least. I like the press, but wish it were more reliable, if it were i could churn out a lot of ammo in one sitting. |
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Thanks for sharing all your knowledge with me. My choice will be a well informed one. I ruled out the Lee 1000. I am a fan of Lee equipment and if I was on a tight budget this would be my choice. I am sure with some tweeking it would run like top. Love the Vmax, Amax bullets but think the press is ruled out. Again just to save myself some fine tuning and set up. Dillion 650 with case feeder is the final choice. My goal is to speed up production and this seems to be the logical choice if you have the extra cash. Now I need to compile a list of evry thing I need to make it complete. I definitly will get one of those trimming dies COsteve mentioned in the other thread. Any other bells and whistle I should get to make reloading a breeze? Thanks Steve |
Personal likes and dislikes vary........so, opinions will vary. I happen to own both a Dillon and three LEE M1000s (9mm, 38 Special and .45 ACP). Not to mention a single station RCBS Rock Chucker. I've found that three stations are enough for ME. For pistol..... decap/size powder drop and expand bullet seat and crimp. YOU could (IF you wanted) use a LEE Pro 1000 for rifle.... decap/size powder drop bullet seat and either crimp or not (it's your choice). But, I do my rifle re-loading on a single station, that's me. How you like to do things is up to you. I've found that you DON'T ABSOLUTELY NEED a FCD. Your standard die set has the ability (when properly adjusted) to deliver: no crimp, slight crimp, or heavier crimp.......it's in the adjustment. As for the Dillon........consider the price to convert from one caliber to another. Plus, set up time. What you choose is up to you. Choose wisely. Aloha, Mark PS..........don't get me wrong, the Dillon will work too. It just costs a lot more. |
COSteve’s Dillion Set Up
Speaking about COSteve.......checkout his set up (pics, towards the bottom of the page)........ www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=254913 Aloha, Mark |
Wise choice. The Brian Enos' site has a thread (there should be a link around here somewhere) titled "The Way It Should Be" which lists the complete set-up for an XL650, including all accessories and attachments needed for effortless and worry-free and convenient reloading. Hopefully someone will have the link for you as it's very helpful.
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I have seen a few not happy because they had to send their "blue press" back because something was broke, misaligned or badly adjusted and they couldn't correct it.. One such thread ran for days with some very nice pics. I personally don't care what he buys either. It is his money. However I do hate the "Blue Smugness". that goes on. Kinda like Colt is the only good AR. |
As he's made his decision I guess further hijack is okay.  Are you saying you want to condemn Dillon presses because one or two slipped through that had QC problems? Or is it you want to condemn them because many of us express satisfaction (which you define as "smugness")?? The only guy I've ever heard of that didn't like his Dillon press is that kook who went to the trouble of starting a bizarro website trying to find nitpicking things wrong with Dillon presses and extolling the virtues of some other brand (I don't recall which). It reeks of having some kind of agenda, as there were no legitimate beefs. BTW, I don't recall any threads of that type, let alone several. I'm not saying there haven't been any, but to say "we both know" is a stretch. Got any links?
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I am not condemning anything. I am talking about how so many condemn Hornady. In fact as I see it the 2 best machines out there are Dillon and Hornady. At least I will say it unlike so many others. Unfortunately I can't go back into the archives to find the any of the threads. If I remember right part of the problem was with the case feeder and there was another problem but don't remember what exactly. But he posted several close-up shots of the problems. This was quite a few months ago for this particular problem. As far as the tweaks go w/Hornady. The biggest problem is that people skim the instructions instead of taking a minute to understand it. Now I will admit that some parts could be explained a bit better but alas many instructions these days are that way. Or perhaps they overestimate mechanical aptitude. Hornady does set-up their machine for pawl (shellplate index) timing but it sometimes needs a minor tweak to perfect it and this also allows for wear adjustment. That is where the problem starts. People don't read and go too far and then are lost. It really is very simple and so are the other adjustments but then I am a machinist so maybe it comes naturally to me. |
I remember that page, I found it as a post here http://www.pafoa.org/forum/ammunition-reloading-25/13344-introducing-hornady-lock-load-ap.html by Homefront |
Thank you--made hot here. Anyone who knows anything about Dillon presses will see that guy's article for what it is: complete lies and claptrap. I have no idea what would motivate someone to do a silly hit piece like that. The ONLY valid point he makes is the one about the primer catcher. You do get a few primers on the floor. EVERY single other point is complete BS, or wildly exaggerated--as any Dillon owner knows. My favorite one was claiming the locator buttons are somehow "inconvenient" or make it "difficult" to remove cases from the loading sequence.  The bit about the powder measures is really bizarre. Claiming the fail-safe rod changes its adjustment and will end up short-stroking?? The thing is nothing more than a fail-safe feature. The guy is just a kook, willing to lie in favor of another brand. I have nothing bad to say about the LNL, as I've never used one (unlike the implication above). Edit:
You jump on me yet I've NEVER posted a disparaging word about the LNL press. WTF? Have you ever used a Dillon press? If not, how can you declare it to be one of the best? I never comment on the LNL simply because I've never used one. I declare the Dillon presses "great" because I have years of experience with them. You call this "Blue Smugness"--I call it experience born of loading around 100,000 safe rounds on my Dillon presses without problem or incident.
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Well that isn't the particular thread I was talking about. Not even form this site. I did not attack you personally over anything. You took it that way. Have I used a Dillon. No not personally but have watched a couple friends some yrs. back who had them. I have also been exposed to a couple of Lee turret presses also. Not the same as using one but at least it is exposure. Bottom line is both make good ammo and for that matter so does a Lee. I prefer the ability to change calibers with the relative ease of the LNL without the added cost. All it takes if the head size is different is a different shellplate at $30+ and some bushings at $30+/10 and if you want to get fancy buy powder metering stems for about $10 for each powder charge. If you want to use a Dillon then have at it. Just remember that it is not the only game in town. I believe that says all that needs be said. |
I can list the outright lies if anyone happens to be interested and not familar with the Dillon presses. I view him as a kook because he is expending MUCH too much effort making up stuff (or grossly exaggerating) over the Dillon presses, while extolling the virtues of the LNL as if they don't have quirks and/or faults. Read the end--"P.S. to the guy I sold my 550 to: don't worry it's a great press!" Does his description in paragraph after paragraph sound as though he thinks it's a "great press!"? BTW, the guy who made the post in the linked thread is not the guy who wrote all that--
That "article" was lifted from a website dedicated to bashing Dillon products and Mike Dillon. Anyone who goes to that much trouble, then calls the press "great!" is a kook in my book. As always, YMMV. |
I will, thank you. Why should I "remember that it is not he only game in town"? Why should I care about other games? Members here share their experiences and insights, and most seem content to leave it at that. "I have a Dillon and love it" is no more or less valid than "I have a LNL and love it." If we all share our actual experiences, this allows anyone asking for advice to make an informed decision. Bashing companies when not based upon actual experience is just silly. Speaking highly of those we do have experience with is in no way a detraction from other companies. Dillon Precision has earned the enthusiastic support of many, as has Hornady with their LNL. I rarely see a Dillon owner bash another company, however. I do regularly see LNL owners go after Dillon owners ("Blue Snobbery"). This isn't GD, so it's best if we all (mself included, of course) stick to helping those who ask for advice or information. It's no problem to post opinions, but please (everyone) stick to those things which we have actual experience with. "I owned XXXXX item and hated it" isn't very helpful without details. Likewise, "I would never buy XXXX" is equally useless without an explanation. We're all in this together--so let's help each other by sharing solid info.
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Just to help your decision along - If you buy a Hornady Lock N Load AP, Hornday will give you almost enough free bullets to pay for the press. www.hornady.com/get_loaded.php This is a heck of a deal, and there are plenty of members here that use that press that can help you get it adjusted. |
I don't agree with the part about Dillon owners but I guess it is how each looks at it. I do agree with the part about sharing solid info. |
I saw that too. But, did he actually lie? Is he a "kook," just because he related his personal experience, that you don't happen to agree with? It's his personal experience. You know, YMWV. ______________________________________________ My hope for everyone reading here is that: Just because someone may have a different opinion. He can still post his opinion, without the fear or being called a ____fill in your choice of disparaging remark(s)_____. Aloha, Mark |
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OK Thanks for all the help.
I am going tomorow to get a Hornady. Yes I changed my mind but I seen both press's in person and liked the Hornady. Also 1,000 30 cal bullets puts me over the edge. I looked those bullets up on midway at a cost of over $200. So that is less then $200 for the press. I AM IN LIKE SKIN. Also just sized and primed 700 rnds of 223 with my 1980's single stage and can take no more of that crap. Reloading is holding back my shooting hobby and I won't stand for that. and FUCK OBAMA |
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All hope isn't lost on the Lee. Because of the innovative and nearly foolproof case feeder, you CAN eliminate the major malfunction issue by splitting up the operations. The primer feed works best if kept full of primers.
With seperation of the processes,you size and prime with stations 1 and 2, skipping powder and bullet seating. This goes VERY fast, just keep track of cases that didn't get primed and recycle. Once the cases are sized and primed, then feed them through again with the second head, charging, seating and crimping. The powder measure pull-back chain can be afixed to the ram with a simple bracket held in place by one of the #8 screws holding the base plate on the ram. Because of the feeder, I just keep the hopper full of cases, eliminating handling. When a tube empties, just rotate the the next and add a handful of cases to the hopper. The other great thing is the ram head can be taken off without issue to indexing. If you want multiple calibers, this is a very fast method of changing. |
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Update: Got the press up and running. Wanted to say hornady gets a AA++ from me. I did not fully adjust the index pawl and broke one of those. Then I did not clean the inside of the powder measure as it clearly states in the directions. That I read later. So I got powder all over and it jammed the primer feed plunger up there by jamming the primer tray forward so when I pulled the handle the primer tray broke. Emailed hornady for parts and three days later parts are in my mail box. Had the parts before the email response. Good stuff. They did not want any money even though it was my fault. Just loaded about 600rnds. Good bye single stage. FAST FAST FAST. Should have gotten a progressive 20 years ago. |
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