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Posted: 6/23/2008 2:50:00 AM EDT
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Hello I have a question about .223 primers. I will be reloading .223 and LC Brass that I will shoot out of my .223 bolt gun and my bushy ar15. I was wodering if I should get the 5.56 military primers or just regular .223 which will prolly be wolf? The reason I ask about the military primers is it says use magnum data for these primers? What does this mean? thanks |
| I'm not exactly sure that I understand your question, but I'll take a chance that you might be talking about the loading data for a certain brand / type of powder. Some powders for certain loads require a magnum primer (usually designated, for example, by a '50' instead of a '00' for CCI primers). So, if you would usually be using a CCI 400 primer for a certain load, and the load data for the powder that you're using calls for a magnum primer you would get a CCI 450. If this isn't the basis for your question then I'm sorry for wasting your time. |
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The military primers spit the fire of a magnum primer for reliable ignition of ball powders in extreme cold temps. Another advantage of the military primer is the thicker cup thickness which is spec'd by the military which is theorized to prevent the free floating firing pin from causing an out of battery firing. There are guys who say use them for this reason and others who say use what ever gives the best accuracy or whatever is least expensive. That's your call. Personally I use standard or match in bolt guns and use standard or magnum in the autoloading. No issues yet. Oh and I often use standard primers with ball powder with great accuracy FWIW. ETA- you may want to read this for some more primer info, I left the link cold. http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php |
Buy small rifle primers. Any make will work. Adjust powder charge weights as required when switching from one brand to another. That's all there is to the decision. There is no such thing as "magnum data". If you just absolutely believe you need CCI 41's, then buy them. There's no need for them, but they're more tactical so they have to be better. All the gun counter talk about slam fires in an AR is bull. A properly seated primer will not permit a slamfire upon closing the bolt. A CCI 41 that is seated high is just as likely to cause a slamfire as any other primer that is not seated correctly. |
| SInce you did mention that you may use Wolf primers. Wideners recommends the magnum small rifle for AR use. Apparently they have the same amount of primer compound but have a harder cup than standard small rifle primers. In light of that, I would go ahead and get the magnum primers for your needs. |
But, as AeroE said, you can use ANY primer as long as it is seated properly. I use the Wolf small rifle standards and have had zero issues.  Mikey |
Winchester has been trying to limit its SKUs for us reloaders. They got rid of a LOT of great propellents like 680. They finally got rid of the whole reloader line to Hodgdon which now does IMR too. Odd that IMR used to be allied with UMC-Rem. |
| I interpreted the original post as asking what the guidelines for reducing your load are when the load calls for small rifle primers and all you have available is small rifle magnum primers, such as my situation since all that is ever available locally are the magnums. |
This sort of question(s) about military primers in semi-auto firearms comes up often........
Some re-loaders have been convinced that it's a, "must have." Others are fine with the primers they've been using for years and have learned to accept a certain amount of, "risk." Hey, NOTHING is perfect. Your re-loads and techniques differ as well as your rifles. YMWV.
_____________________________________ Anytime, you don't exactly follow what THE BOOK says.......you take a chance. And, you'll note that most books will specify what brand of: brass, primers, bullets, powder (and weight)......not to mention what brand of firearm they used........to OK their load data. Standard advice.....when starting a new load......start low and work your way up. And, bolt gun ammo or load data isn't always O.K. w/ a semi auto (example: M1 Garand data is special). FWIW........most re-loaders will not just "pick one" from a book and expect, "the best results." They work up their loads, for their rifle......cause "YMWV." _______________________________________ Please carefully check what is said on an internet forum page......against published manuals.......you never KNOW when someone is gonna #&%$ with you. Especially, with LOAD DATA. _____________________________________ Just making a "minor change" can have an unwanted affect.....maybe even to the point of being DANGEROUS. Read: How do changing various components affect chamber pressure and velocity? www.frfrogspad.com/miscelld.htm#components ____________________________________ Remember, like most everything......YOUR MILEAGE WILL VARY. There are many other products, loads, and ways to skin a cat......this was only my advice. Which you got for FREE. _____________________________________ Aloha, Mark |
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I used Win SR primers with no issues. They worked fine in loads that suggested use of a SRM primer. My source at the funshow no longer sells them. I now use Wolf SRM primers. Worked my favorite loads back up and found In my rifle, I could use the same powder charges I always used with the Wolf SRM primer. A couple of the loads even showed better groups. In pistol primers, Winchester doesn't make a large pistol magnum primer. I use the WinLP primer with W-296, H-110 loads in 44 mag which call for a mag primer, works fine. It seems each manufacturer has different ideas on what magnum and standard means in their primers. |
| To answer the OT's question directly, a couple of 'oldtimer' reloading friends told me this when I asked the very same question many years ago. If you use a magnum primer with powder data for a non-magnum primer, figure to start ½ grain lower than you would with non-magnum primers as a rule of thumb. Remember, you still have to work up to your optimal powder load. |
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Assuming normal load work-up, I ignore any reference to "magnum" or "standard" primers when it comes to primer consideration for the .223 Remington. I just want a thick cup to withstand the pressures generated, and most small rifle primers now do that. My first loads for the .223 used silver Winchester WSM primers. A reloading mentor suggested a trial of Remington 7 1/2 BR primers. They ended up making the same load more accurate in this case. That is what interests me in primer selection if all else is up to snuff. Often the 7 1/2 BR is considered a magnum primer (compared to their 6 1/2). However Remington says they are essentially the same thing except for cup thickness. Brian Pearce quoted REMINGTON sources in HANDLOADER, October 2006 (pg 14):
Primers used for .223 Rem. loads should have heavy cups to resist perforation at the high pressures normal for this round. Military 5.56mm primers have a cup thickness of about 0.24", compared to .020" or so for the [older] standard small rifle primers. Federal 205 and 205M, Remington 7 1/2 and Winchester WSM primers now have cups of about the same thickness as military primers, and are the best to use when reloading the .223. CCI 400 primers had a thinner cup and were not ideal. CCI released its #41 mil-spec primer for this reason, and I believe has, at least, changed the 450 and BR4 primer to the thicker cup. I am unsure about the new 400s. Another source says: "The latest generation of Winchester primers, with brass-colored cups, should be avoided for AR15 use. The old silver Winchester primers worked fine, but the current WSRs are soft and can be pierced more easily than CCI or Rem primers. A poll of Highpower competitors (mostly shooting ARs) showed that Rem 7 1/2 primers are the most popular (33.23%), followed by CCIs (25.78%). The majority of CCI users favored the CCI BR4s, but both CCI 400s (small rifle standard) and CCI 450s (small rifle magnum) were also popular. Only 10.25% of Highpower shooters polled used Federal primers (either 205M or 205). At the time of the poll, many shooters reported using WSRs, but this was the older version with silver cups." |
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