Armory Sponsor
Posted: 2/19/2009 3:27:43 PM EDT
|
Ok, so i've been doing my research on glass, and I have a few questions.
1. I've pretty much settled on my scope of choice, but i have a few last minute questions. The scope that I'm planning on buying is the NF 8-32X56mm, I'm trying to decide between the NP-R1 and NP-R2 reticles, both look good, and I'm leaning towards the NP-R1 but I haven't decided. Thoughts? 2. Is their a big difference between the 50mm and 56mm objective lense (not sure if thats the correct term) The 8-32 only comes in 56mm but i'm still considering the 5.5-22 which comes in both, and I'm not sure if their is a noticeable difference. 3. Are their many S&B scopes found at matches or in general on .50's? Their price is significantly higher than the NF and I was wondering if they are that much better than the NF scopes 4. Are Zeiss or Swarovski scopes seen with any frequency on .50's. I've always heard that they offer very good glass and there prices seem to indicate high quality glass, but I haven't seen them discussed much, is this due to not holding up on the .50, or are they just cost prohibitive? Thanks for any help, advice or thoughts! |
|
Quoted:
Ok, so i've been doing my research on glass, and I have a few questions. 1. I've pretty much settled on my scope of choice, but i have a few last minute questions. The scope that I'm planning on buying is the NF 8-32X56mm, I'm trying to decide between the NP-R1 and NP-R2 reticles, both look good, and I'm leaning towards the NP-R1 but I haven't decided. Thoughts? NP-R1 is superior for measuring range and for holdovers. It's twice as useful on lower magnifications as the NP-R2 because as power decreases, the graduation value doubles. NP-R1 all the way. 2. Is their a big difference between the 50mm and 56mm objective lense (not sure if thats the correct term) The 8-32 only comes in 56mm but i'm still considering the 5.5-22 which comes in both, and I'm not sure if their is a noticeable difference. I believe the 56 is superior. It gathers more light, thus resulting in a higher resolution image. You'll notice most of the difference in low light as the 56mm has a larger exit pupil (and thus brighter image) at all magnifications. This is especially noticable at higher magnification. Objective size divided by power equals exit pupil. Human eyes can see up to a 6mm exit pupil so anything above that is wasted. I'd go with the 56mm unless you have a very compelling reason to go 50mm...i.e. you are going to mount the gun to sniper weapon and want the lower profile scope. 50's aren't real portable so I don't see that mattering. 3. Are their many S&B scopes found at matches or in general on .50's? Their price is significantly higher than the NF and I was wondering if they are that much better than the NF scopes. I know a few guys with PMII's but i've never seen one make it to a match. They're top notch glass but like most things, the law of diminishing returns is in effect. Thus, to get a scope that may be 5 to 10% better (S&B PMII vs NF NXS) you are going to pay 100% more. NF NXS, then NF Benchrest, the Leupold Mk 4 are the most common encoutered scopes at FCSA matches i've attended, in that order. 4. Are Zeiss or Swarovski scopes seen with any frequency on .50's. I've always heard that they offer very good glass and there prices seem to indicate high quality glass, but I haven't seen them discussed much, is this due to not holding up on the .50, or are they just cost prohibitive? The Swarovski Barrett Scope, a 10x42, is 50 BMG proven. But it doesn't have target knobs and is a fixed 10x with a reticle calibrated for M33 ball. If you can get one for a bargain, they're a nice scope but limited by magnification and the super-busy reticle. The Zeiss scopes are occasionally seen on 50's but I don't think they've been used enough to have a solid reputation. They're great scopes on lesser calibers but I can't see how they're any better than a NF NXS which is well proven on 50's. Thanks for any help, advice or thoughts! |
|
Quoted:
David, Thanks for the great advice, i didn't know that about the NP-R2 reticle. Hey man, I wouldn't say "great advice". It's worth what you paid for it. The only difference between NP-R2 and NP-R1 is this and I only know the values for a 5.5-22 NXS. NP-R1: Hash marks on vertical axis (elevation) are worth 1 MOA each at 22x, 2 MOA each at 11x, and 4 MOA at 5.5x NP-R2 (I have one of these, NP-R1 wasn't available): Hash marks on vertical axis are worth 2 MOA each at 22x, 4 MOA each at 11x, and 8 MOA at 5.5x. Nice thing about the NP-R1 and NP-R2 reticles is that they are calibrated in MOA, just like the knobs on the scope which are calibrated in 1/4 MOA increments. The two work well together, especially since I think in MOA and not mils. I think NF offers 0.1 mil-based knobs which work well with mil-dots. Although I have one, i'll never understand hybrid scopes like Leupold Mark 4. I've got an 8.5-25x50mm Mark 4 on my 338 Lapua with MOA-based knobs and a mil-dot reticle. Wish they offered the option of a MOA-based reticle. Maybe the custom shop will soon. -David Edgewood, NM |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
David, Thanks for the great advice, i didn't know that about the NP-R2 reticle. Hey man, I wouldn't say "great advice". It's worth what you paid for it. The only difference between NP-R2 and NP-R1 is this and I only know the values for a 5.5-22 NXS. NP-R1: Hash marks on vertical axis (elevation) are worth 1 MOA each at 22x, 2 MOA each at 11x, and 4 MOA at 5.5x NP-R2 (I have one of these, NP-R1 wasn't available): Hash marks on vertical axis are worth 2 MOA each at 22x, 4 MOA each at 11x, and 8 MOA at 5.5x. Nice thing about the NP-R1 and NP-R2 reticles is that they are calibrated in MOA, just like the knobs on the scope which are calibrated in 1/4 MOA increments. The two work well together, especially since I think in MOA and not mils. I think NF offers 0.1 mil-based knobs which work well with mil-dots. Although I have one, i'll never understand hybrid scopes like Leupold Mark 4. I've got an 8.5-25x50mm Mark 4 on my 338 Lapua with MOA-based knobs and a mil-dot reticle. Wish they offered the option of a MOA-based reticle. Maybe the custom shop will soon. -David Edgewood, NM I guess its worth what I paid for it, but looking at information in manuals and online only gets me so far, hands on advice and feedback from people (like yourself) is invaluable. Its a lot of money on a scope, so I want to make sure I feel out all the options, and get as many Pro's and Con's as I can, I'd hate to drop $1600 on a scope and end up disliking the reticle. I appreciate all the advice you and others on this board have provided. |
|
Don't worry too bad about a reticle on a NF. They'll swap one out for about $150 (or less) and they have a turnaround time of less than a week. When I bought mine, it was a mil-dot. I sent it out for a swap to the NPR2 and had it back by early the next week.
Also, NF NXS scopes hold their value really well. And FYI, you should check with NF but I think even on the 8-32's, the reticles are only calibrated at 22x and 11x. The MOA value is not as printed at 32x which sucks. Of course you should ask. Maybe they are calibrated at 8x, 16x, and 32x but a friend that has one said they were only calibrated at 11x and 22x. Plus the 8-32 has much less elevation adjustment than a 5.5-22 which has 100 MOA (50 up and 50 down). -David Edgewood, NM |
|
That was one question I forgot to ask, MOA adjustments, does the 8-32x have enough to get to 1000yds if its mounted on an AR-50 with the stock rail from the factory?
My thinking in going with the 8-32x was this, I plan on using my AR-50 as a bench/range only gun, I don't plan on humping it around or using it as a hunting rifle, that being said, and maybe my logic is flawed here, the 5.5-22x seemed more like a tactical/bench rest scope where as the 8-32x seemed more like a dedicated range/benchrest scope. But if the extra MOA adjustments on the 5.5-22x would be a significant advantage than maybe I should re-think my scope plan. Intended use and range for my AR-50 will primarily be 1000yds or less. The typical range that I can get to in my area is 300-600yds, and I plan on attending Raton, and any other match within driving distance. I would like if given the oppurtunity to shoot behyond, but that really isn't a planning factor for purchasing my scope. Thanks again for the input |
|
You'll have no problem getting to 1000 yards with an AR-50 and a 15 MOA rail along with an 8-32 NF NXS scope. Not a problem at all. Depending upon the load, you'll need arourn 25 MOA to get from a 100 yard zero to 1000 yards. The 8-32 NXS has 65 MOA of elevation adjustment, meaning 32.5 up and 32. 5 down. Add 32.5 to 15 and you have 47.5. You'll have NO PROBLEM getting to 1000 yards with the 8-32. And the 8-32 will be superior for reading mirage and doping wind compared to a 5.5-22. The 5.5-22 just has more adjustment if you want to shoot further.
Many match shooters believe the 8-32 to be idea for FCSA use. It's just not quite a general purpose scope like the 5.5-22 or an absolutely dedicated target scope like the 12-42. I think Armalite is making a 30 MOA scope rail now, although 15 MOA is stock. 30 MOA would be ideal for 1000 yard matches as you would be near the center of adjustment regardless of the scope, yet still able to zero at 200 with an 8-32 NXS. And if you want to shoot from 600 out to much further, say 1800, you can always pop on a 50 MOA base on the AR-50. Armalite sells them for a reasonable price. -David Edgewood, NM |
| While were on the topic of MOA and rails, would their be a significant advantage of replacing the stock 15 MOA rail with say a 30 MOA rail, even if your only shooting 1000yds? I know it would keep you closer to the "center" of the MOA adjustments on the scope, would this affect accuracy noticably or does it not really matter? |
|
Quoted:
While were on the topic of MOA and rails, would their be a significant advantage of replacing the stock 15 MOA rail with say a 30 MOA rail, even if your only shooting 1000yds? I know it would keep you closer to the "center" of the MOA adjustments on the scope, would this affect accuracy noticably or does it not really matter? Theoretically, it keeps you closer to center where a scope is most accurate. I've shot with both 20 MOA and 30 MOA rails, both on a 5.5-22x56mm NF NXS NP-R2 and I can't tell a damn bit of difference. My ALS has a 30 MOA rail if I remember right. State Arms has a 20 MOA. Probably a pretty insignificant factor, other than a 30 MOA rail with the 8-32 would allow you to run to the maximum range of the scope adjustments while still being capable of a 200 yard zero. Just depends upon whether or not you care much about going beyond 1000 with knobs. Personally, I never have. Other folks dig shooting further than 1000. Sounds to me like the 15 MOA would work fine for your application. Swapping to a 30 MOA rail wouldn't be much of a big deal if you decide to one day. -David Edgewood, NM |
Armory Sponsor