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Page Armory » 50 Cal
Posted: 3/8/2006 1:02:49 AM EDT
Seems to be a lot of similarities between the two. Also a lot of he said/she said stuff going on.

Let's open the can of worms up and discuss what's good and/or bad about each one and which one you would spend your hard earned cash on.

You guys that have experience with these guns need to chime in here!
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:35:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 6:46:24 AM EDT by moosemcnally]
If you are seriously debating between these two rifles read on. I know I've posted this a few times but I have expanded greatly on it recently.

I've been intending on expanding this evaluation for some time finally got it t done.



I have nothing against Barretts and I 've repeatedly said they deserve all the credit that they've earned for bringing the 50 to the civilian market. Their support has been long and consitent.

Give Bluegrass Armory the same amount of time and I believe they will also prove equally to be a major supporter of the 50 caliber community!

I do get very ticked off when people say they are the same gun. They aren't even close!!! People have mentioned that Bluegrass should be sued. If Barrett thought the Viper was "a copy" of their 99 trust me their lawyers would probably be right on it.

At a glance a some might say a Yugo and a Mini Cooper "look the same". I own a Mini Cooper and trust me it is not the same!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is my evaluation of the rifles construction and why I eventually chose the Viper.

Both rifles appear similar in looks only, mostly due to the extruded aluminum stock.

The 99 barrel in installed into the gun from the rear of the stock, the Viper is installed from the front of the stock.

The 99 uses a muzzle break for a recoil operated (82) weapon. By design it cannot be as effective as one designed for a bolt gun. The muzzle brake on the Viper is a 5 port modified fish gill brake looking nothing like the 99 brake. The 99 barrel is straight crowned while the Viper barrel is a recessed crown.

The 99 barrel is a mil spec barrel made of chrome moly steel. The Viper barrel is a match grade Fedderson barrel also made of chrom moly steel.

The Viper bolt is further forward and allows people to comfortably shoot either the right handed gun or the left handed gun from either side. The 99s bolt is further back and perilously close to the shooters face if they are left handed.

The 99's bolt is removed through the bullet ejection port on the side of the gun. The Viper bolt is removed out the rear of the gun. The extractors are completely different in design.

The 99 has an interrupted thread bolt with the bolt handle welded onto the bolt. The Viper has a 3 lug bolt resting on primary extraction pins and enclosing the rear of the shell, with the handle threaded into the bolt.

The receiver on the Viper is larger in diameter than the 99.

The Viper comes in a left handed version. Not so with the 99.

The Viper has a ramped area forward of the buttstock that allows you to move your non shooting hand back and forth to gain or lose elevation. The 99 has a small plastic piece on the rear of the gun to support the recoil pad. The Viper has a full length piece to use to as a hand elevation system. Both guns have rear monopods and bipods.

The fire control on the 99 uses a long linkage type system to release the sear engagement. The Viper is a single stage trigger that is directly below the bolt. It is simple. The whole gun is simple!

The Viper has a safety in it that prevents you from removing the trigger group with the bolt closed. If you remove the bolt from a 99 with the bolt closed and a live round in it......BOOM!!!. Gun goes off!!!!!!!!!

The 99s safety blocks the trigger. The Viper safety blocks the trigger and disengages the sear, and goes back to the safe position upon closing the bolt. The closed bolt safety feature can be disabled. I am not sure why one would do that though.

The 99's trigger pull is factory set. The Viper trigger pull is fully adjustable for creep, overtravel, and sear engagement. The 99 has a bolt carrier that is a tube attached to the recoil pad that slides into the rear of the stock. The Viper bolt carrier is part of extruded stock.

The Viper has the ability to adjust the weight of the gun to suit the shooter. I have the lead weight in mine and I like it! The 99 does not.

The 99 has a picatinny rail made into the stock.
The Viper has a picatinny rail built into the stock and also bolted through into the barrel.

I paid 2395.00 for my Viper and my freindly FFL charged me 25.00. Bluegrass will do the same for you if you ask!! I Re-Checked this on 03/2006 and most of their purchases are purchases made direct by the buyer with FFL shipping arrangements being made. The price is the same!!!

The gun can be painted anyway you want if you are patient. barrell length and length of pull were also negotiable if you were willing to wait!

The gun is competitive with any gun of its type in the accuracy department. Look for the name Mark Avakian and see what he been doing with his Viper. Mine will shoot under an inch with AMAX, and I haven't shot it much or gotten used to the gun yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Barrett makes a great gun. But me being left handed and wanting others to be able to shoot my 50, the safety issue, the reduced recoil, the better stock design, and the price were all too much to overlook.

The customer service I received while ordering and following up with my gun was second to none.
Jeff called me several times during the order process and afterward just to check up on how I was enjoying my weapon. SECOND TO NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Going through the gun there is not a single component that is the same, or even that works the same. Don’t get hung up on appearances!!!!!!!!!!!


Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:57:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By moosemcnally:
...
The 99 uses a muzzle break for a recoil operated (82) weapon. By design it cannot be as effective as one designed for a bolt gun. The muzzle brake on the Viper is a 5 port modified fish gill brake looking nothing like the 99 brake. The 99 barrel is straight crowned while the Viper barrel is a recessed crown.
......




On current model 99s (since last year) a new brake design is now installed. It IS NOT the same as the 82 any longer. It's performance does put it on par with most other manufacturer's brakes.

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:07:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 9:09:43 AM EDT by moosemcnally]
I stand corrected, competition breeds excellance!!
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:32:58 AM EDT
I have a great deal of experience with the M99, may I make some corrections to your statements?


Originally Posted By moosemcnally:

The 99 barrel is straight crowned while the Viper barrel is a recessed crown.
The 99 barrel has a 45 degree crown. Recessed crowns are only usefull on barrels that do not use a brake or flash hider for muzzle protection.
The 99 barrel is a mil spec barrel made of chrome moly steel. The Viper barrel is a match grade Fedderson barrel also made of chrom moly steel.
The 99 barrel has always been a match grade barrel, and have only been made by Krieger and Fedderson
The 99 has a small plastic piece on the rear of the gun to support the recoil pad.
The buttplate that the recoil pad is bolted to is made of aluminium.
Both guns have rear monopods and bipods.
Currently the 99 has never been offered with the ability to accept a monopod.
The fire control on the 99 uses a long linkage type system to release the sear engagement. The Viper is a single stage trigger that is directly below the bolt. It is simple. The whole gun is simple!
The 99 is a true bull-pup design to minimize the length of the rifle even with a long barrel. The linkage system is necesary to accomplish this. On the latest generation 99s the length of pull has been shortened to be the same as the M107, so the linkage is now shorter.
The Viper has a safety in it that prevents you from removing the trigger group with the bolt closed. If you remove the bolt from a 99 with the bolt closed and a live round in it......BOOM!!!. Gun goes off!!!!!!!!!
The first instruction in ANY manufactures dissassembly instructions is to unload the gun. The 99 is no different from most of the world's bolt actions. If I were to hold a Remington 700 action in my hand with a chambered round and push out the two pins that hold the trigger group to the reciever the gun will fire. You have removed the component that holds the striker in the cocked postion.
The 99s safety blocks the trigger.
The sear on the 99 can not move when the safety is on. It is blocked by the sear linkage.
The 99 has a bolt carrier that is a tube attached to the recoil pad that slides into the rear of the stock.
That tube is called a bolt guide. A bolt carrier is usually seen in semi-autos and moves with the bolt.
The 99 has a picatinny rail made into the stock.
The second generation 99s all have a 4140 steel mil-std 1913 rail that is bolted to the receiver.

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:26:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 11:29:21 AM EDT by racezilla500]
Is the Viper's picatinny rail made of steel?
Does the Viper come packaged with the lead weight or is that an extra purchase?

If you do the math on the Barrett 99 package deal (80 rounds of ammo, hard case, rings, scope...etc)......and add those extra prices to the Viper.........How do they compare as a package value then?

The Viper is getting a little more attention from me right now. One reason is because I have the ability to go to the factory and pick one up since I live fairly close in Kentucky.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:19:34 PM EDT
The mono pod for the M99 is now available from Barrett for anyone interested.

Mono pod
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:17:26 PM EDT
I have been reading this forum for about a year now, and I can add something to this discussion if you do not mind.

The 99 barrel has a 45 degree crown. Recessed crowns are only usefull on barrels that do not use a brake or flash hider for muzzle protection

When you remove the brake to clean the barrel, and yes the crown needs cleaning, and protecting while the brake is off.

The 99 barrel has always been a match grade barrel, and have only been made by Krieger and Fedderson

When I was working for Barrett, yes I did once, the barrels were bought from Montaina Rifleman. And were mil spec bore and chamber.

The first instruction in ANY manufactures dissassembly instructions is to unload the gun. The 99 is no different from most of the world's bolt actions. If I were to hold a Remington 700 action in my hand with a chambered round and push out the two pins that hold the trigger group to the reciever the gun will fire. You have removed the component that holds the striker in the cocked postion

True, but this story I think is from an incident where some kid, sitting beside the shooter grabbed the ring and pulled one of the pins out just screwing around. But you are right, it is not a failing of the gun, thats the way guns work. I have read that the Viper has some kind of interlock to secure its pins, kinda cool, but am not sure if thats really necessary.

I looked very closely at the Viper at the SHOT show, so close in fact that I paid for one and it should be here in about 4 weeks. The other posters are indeed correct in their statement that the Viper is an entirely different gun in design than anything Barrett has produced.

Eric
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 6:48:21 PM EDT
With regard to ejection, the Barrett ejects the brass where the Viper has a shell holder bolt? Is that correct? I've been looking at the Viper too, but whatever I get, I want it to actually eject the brassupon opening the bolt. Many of the less expensive 50's while nice, have shell holders.

Thanks!

Randall
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 6:57:09 PM EDT
How does the Barrett and the Viper compare to the Armalite?

Thanks,
Accountant
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:33:18 PM EDT
With regard to ejection, the Barrett ejects the brass where the Viper has a shell holder bolt? Is that correct?

No, the Viper ejects the brass out the side of the gun.

Eric
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:34:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rino451:
I've been looking at the Viper too, but whatever I get, I want it to actually eject the brassupon opening the bolt. Many of the less expensive 50's while nice, have shell holders.

Thanks!

Randall



Is a Viper really a shell holder design?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:37:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 8:28:15 PM EDT by TacticalCenterfire]
How does the Barrett and the Viper compare to the Armalite?


The Viper weighs about 23 lbs and the 99 weighs about 25 lbs. Both are true bolt action type guns, meaning they both eject the brass out of the gun. The Armalite is a shell holder bolt action, in that you place the loaded round into the bolt while you hold it in your hand, then insert it into the barrel. The Armalite gun weighs about 40 lbs.

I had a brain fart here, its the State Arms gun that has the shell holder design.

Eric
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:38:48 PM EDT
No
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:11:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalCenterfire:

When I was working for Barrett, yes I did once, the barrels were bought from Montaina Rifleman. And were mil spec bore and chamber.




A very few were made by that maker, however they were made to the exact same drawings/tolerances as the other makers. The only .50 cal "mil-spec" barrel in existance is the M2 machine gun barrel. And no 99 barrels has ever had a bore, chamber, or throat that resembles that.

My original statement is correct in that all 99 barrels have always been of what we all refer to as "match grade".
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:13:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalCenterfire:
How does the Barrett and the Viper compare to the Armalite?


The Viper weighs about 23 lbs and the 99 weighs about 25 lbs. Both are true bolt action type guns, meaning they both eject the brass out of the gun. The Armalite is a shell holder bolt action, in that you place the loaded round into the bolt while you hold it in your hand, then insert it into the barrel. The Armalite gun weighs about 40 lbs.


Eric



Sir this is incorrect. The Armailte operates just like the other single shot bolt actions. It IS NOT A SHELLHOLDER. It has a spring loaded extractor and ejector.

The Grizzly is a shell holder. There are a few other too, but that one is the most prominent.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:40:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrBen:

Originally Posted By moosemcnally:
...
The 99 uses a muzzle break for a recoil operated (82) weapon. By design it cannot be as effective as one designed for a bolt gun. The muzzle brake on the Viper is a 5 port modified fish gill brake looking nothing like the 99 brake. The 99 barrel is straight crowned while the Viper barrel is a recessed crown.
......




On current model 99s (since last year) a new brake design is now installed. It IS NOT the same as the 82 any longer. It's performance does put it on par with most other manufacturer's brakes.




Can the new brake be put on the M82 or would it be better to put Armalite's brake on there instead?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:33:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 6:33:40 AM EDT by ar15_rifleman]

Originally Posted By TacticalCenterfire:
How does the Barrett and the Viper compare to the Armalite?


The Viper weighs about 23 lbs and the 99 weighs about 25 lbs. Both are true bolt action type guns, meaning they both eject the brass out of the gun. The Armalite is a shell holder bolt action, in that you place the loaded round into the bolt while you hold it in your hand, then insert it into the barrel. The Armalite gun weighs about 40 lbs.


Eric




Their goes your credibility Do your homework before you make yourself look stupid again.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:53:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By -M60_Gunner-:


Can the new brake be put on the M82 or would it be better to put Armalite's brake on there instead?



You cannot use the 99 brake on the 82 series. The gun will not operate reliably (the gun is recoil operated). The 82 should never be never be shot with anything other than the standard arrowhead brake.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 3:26:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ChrisGene:

Originally Posted By -M60_Gunner-:


Can the new brake be put on the M82 or would it be better to put Armalite's brake on there instead?



You cannot use the 99 brake on the 82 series. The gun will not operate reliably (the gun is recoil operated). The 82 should never be never be shot with anything other than the standard arrowhead brake.



It's that damned sensitive to muzzle brakes eh?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 3:50:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 4:28:52 PM EDT by realwar]
All I can say is I use to own a Barrett 82A1 and an M99.
Sold the two and now I own a Viper and an M2HB.

*edited*
Buying a .416 to add to the collection when they are available.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:26:54 PM EDT
Their goes your credibility Do your homework before you make yourself look stupid again.

You are correct. I was mistaken, I for whatever reason was thinking AR50 and looking at my State Arms. Brain Farts....... Theres no real way of knowing when one will happen.....

Thanks for the correction.


Eric
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 9:04:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TacticalCenterfire:
Their goes your credibility Do your homework before you make yourself look stupid again.

You are correct. I was mistaken, I for whatever reason was thinking AR50 and looking at my State Arms. Brain Farts....... Theres no real way of knowing when one will happen.....

Thanks for the correction.


Eric



Hey Eric, thanks for being mature in your reply to that comment. Threads can get ugly in a hurry for no real good reason around here.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 9:13:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By racezilla500:

Originally Posted By TacticalCenterfire:
Their goes your credibility Do your homework before you make yourself look stupid again.

You are correct. I was mistaken, I for whatever reason was thinking AR50 and looking at my State Arms. Brain Farts....... Theres no real way of knowing when one will happen.....

Thanks for the correction.


Eric



Hey Eric, thanks for being mature in your reply to that comment. Threads can get ugly in a hurry for no real good reason around here.



+1
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:50:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 6:51:21 AM EDT by ChrisGene]

Originally Posted By -M60_Gunner-:

Originally Posted By ChrisGene:

Originally Posted By -M60_Gunner-:


Can the new brake be put on the M82 or would it be better to put Armalite's brake on there instead?



You cannot use the 99 brake on the 82 series. The gun will not operate reliably (the gun is recoil operated). The 82 should never be never be shot with anything other than the standard arrowhead brake.



It's that damned sensitive to muzzle brakes eh?



Yes.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 1:17:25 PM EDT
Hey Eric, thanks for being mature in your reply to that comment. Threads can get ugly in a hurry for no real good reason around here.

What??? Are you saying people on gun boards will argue? Surely not.... Grin

Well, I have been around long enough to be called mature... Or so say my grandchildren. I just try to help where I can, but I am certainly not perfect.

Have a great day!


Eric

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 5:25:55 PM EDT
Wow, seems like some people didn't really know what they were talking about here.
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