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Posted: 1/5/2015 8:26:29 PM EDT
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I'm a (newish) proud owner of a RR, but it has a 2-position RE. Due to my ape-like arms, a closed-stock position doesn't work, and all my uppers are configured for a "2-click" position (on 6-position REs) or a "1-click" position (on Colt 4-position REs). As a result, I'm finding that a stock all the way out is a bit annoying on my RR lower. So...I have a 4-position Colt RE ready to go to replace the stock RE on my M16 carbine, but it requires breaking the staking on the nut. I've done this before on several 6920s, but I know it's not always a perfect evolution. Anyone have any recommendations? Also, changing the RE will require manipulating the nut, and as far as I can tell, it only has two holes to grasp on to. I have a Magpul armorers tool that I'll need to play with, but is two holes enough? I just don't have experience with messing with these like I do with the more modern castle nuts, and obviously any inadvertent damage to the RR is a no-go.
Or....am I asking for troubles? Appreciate any input. |
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IIRC, there is a special tool to remove the retro nut on the RE. I would purchase that if you intend to do it yourself.
If I had done a few swaps before, I would feel comfortable doing it myself. Just keep everything supported and don't go full ape on it and you should be fine. |
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Thanks gents. Although assuming I have the correct tools, I'm not sure what a gunsmith would do differently.
If I do end up removing it, I'm thinking that grabbing a piece of pipe to slide over the handle of the RE tool would help with the leverage. The tool I've found online (I think at Brownell's) has a pretty short and painful handle. |
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Quoted: I'm thinking that grabbing a piece of pipe to slide over the handle of the RE tool would help with the leverage. I'm a gunsmith. Let me tell you what I'd do differently... First, are we talking about a factory Colt M16 Carbine RR? If so, then I'm sure you're aware that breaking the stakes and swapping receiver extensions will hurt the value, regardless if other Colt parts are used as replacements. Second, if these are Colt stakes (or similar) then you're going to have to pick which part to damage, either the receiver plate or the nut, in order to eliminate the staking. Definitely destroy the plate, as it's less expensive and far more common. Since you have an early 2-hole nut vs the later-style castle nut, you need to understand some torque limitations. The short wrench handle will let you apply way more force than required to remove the nut (or bend/elongate that hole). I have extruded steel around the slots of 4-slot castle nuts (before they would rotate) using a RRA 3-slot stubby wrench. It's much easier to extrude (damage) the early-style nuts due to less surface area between the nut and wrench. Here's how to do it: 1. Using a mag-well vice insert, secure the lower in a vice with a secure hold on the insert. Make sure the lower is not at risk of contacting the vice (or anything) in the event of slight shifting on the insert. Then clamp the insert so tightly there is no escape. 2. Test-fit your wrench gingerly (steel-on-steel here) to ensure it's a good fit for the nut. Be sure you're in a good position to hold it and the extension securely while you apply downward pressure on the left side to unscrew the nut. Ensure the wrench will clear the pistol grip if it's close, or remove the grip. 3. Take a Dremel or similar with a cut-off wheel (I know  ) and cut straight down into each stake of the receiver plate, ensuring that the tool never contacts the nut or receiver extension. You can use masking tape to help guide you, but it won't protect anything if you miss. I just use compressed air to remove the dust and reassess. The goal here is to remove the "base" of the metal extruded into the relief in the nut, so there's no longer anything to hold it. You must stop before you reach the receiver extension threads. That would happen way after you're through the extrusion.4. Repeat for each stake point, continuing to be very careful. 5. Remove the lower and clean the interface area thoroughly, removing all dust generated from the cutting. Masking tape would come off now, if used. 6. Apply Kroil, PB Blaster, or some good penetrating oil to the threads and nut area. Put gravity on your team to get that to seep into the interface. Let it sit at least 15 minutes. 7. Again secure the lower in a protected vice setup. 8. Normally this is optional, but you have a less-than-ideal old school nut, so heat the nut a bit with a torch. (Lightly - there's aluminum right there and you don't want to discolor the nice Colt gray.) Wipe or blow off as much oil from the outside area as possible before heating. Move the torch around at all times and point it only at the nut. You basically want it too hot to touch with your hand, not much more. You need to have experience heating stuck parts to do this well. 9. Now the ever-critical finale... Position the wrench where it is fully supported and evenly and slowly apply that downward pressure. Keep the wrench handle close to your torso for the best control. Be sure it's firmly seated against the nut, deeply engaging the slot, and parallel with the nut as you apply force. It must stay that way as the nut releases and rotates, which it will tend to do very suddenly, so be ready. Be aware of the receiver wanting to flex against the mag well insert. DO NOT let that wrench slip AT ALL, or you'll have a damaged nut. Slow and steady constantly-increasing pressure wins. Mind the angle the wrench is *about* to be at when it goes. Support means keeping it from going the direction you want too quickly also. It may be helpful to have an assistant hold the lower to keep it as secure as possible. If you feel like you're putting most of your weight on the handle, and it hasn't released, then go back and apply a little more heat than before. The support and engagement of the wrench is THE most critical aspect. Good luck!  |
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If this is a factory original Colt, and not a conversion, under no circumstance would I recommend you remove the factory staking/receiver extension. As previously posted, it will adversely affect the collector value.
If on the other hand this is a converted Colt or a non-Colt RR, then by all means swap it out. |
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Quoted:
If this is a factory original Colt, and not a conversion, under no circumstance would I recommend you remove the factory staking/receiver extension. As previously posted, it will adversely affect the collector value. This. Buy a replacement stock (mil spec) or two. Add butt extensions of whatever thicknesses, either slip-on or attached to bring the rear out from the closed position to whatever intermediate position you desire. MHO, YMMV, etc. Best of luck. |
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@KitBuilder:
Fantastic write up. Thank you. The intent was never to damage the nut, but to make the end plate the sacrificial lamb (if I decide to do this). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but (properly) restaking a nut, should I need to sell it, shouldn't be that hard a prospect, no? @all, I completely understand affecting resale, but at the same time, I didn't buy this to sit in a safe all the time (just a lot of the time). So having something I can shoot is important. That said... Quoted:
Buy a replacement stock (mil spec) or two. Add butt extensions of whatever thicknesses, either slip-on or attached to bring the rear out from the closed position to whatever intermediate position you desire. Can you shed a little more light on this? Do you have any examples I can look at? This might be a possible solution without the hassle of "messing" with a RR. |
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If you're going to do this, I strongly recommend using a fixture that hold the receiver extension. It is very easy to damage the shallow keyway that interfaces with the receiver endplate. You don't want to damage the original two-position receiver extension. I would also find a spare receiver endplate and castle nut should you wish to restore it to factory configuration. Even if restored, it will no longer be factory. I would just put a SOPMOD stock on it, leave the factory RE as-is, and call it a day.
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Quoted: @KitBuilder: Fantastic write up. Thank you. The intent was never to damage the nut, but to make the end plate the sacrificial lamb (if I decide to do this). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but (properly) restaking a nut, should I need to sell it, shouldn't be that hard a prospect, no? I've never had a properly tightened nut come loose, but I have observed staking being the only thing securing a nut which was improperly tightened to begin with. |
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Can you shed a little more light on this? Do you have any examples I can look at? This might be a possible solution without the hassle of "messing" with a RR I also have the same situation. What I'm probably going to do first is get a replacement basic stock. Then I currently think I'll add one of those glue on recoil pads as is often installed on shotgun stocks. That should add about an inch. Then get a slip on recoil pad - also often used on shotguns. A number of the slip on pads come with inserts of various thicknesses. I plan to use as many as feels right when I slide the slip on pad over the glued on pad. Should be able to add up to an inch and a half or so bringing the total thickness to two and a half inches, more or less. Probably will look "unusual". Another thought is to get a basic replacement stock and add on an adjustment system as is on the Magpul PRS stock. More work and expense with that, but probably could get longer LOP. Good luck! |
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Quoted:
I also have the same situation. What I'm probably going to do first is get a replacement basic stock. Then I currently think I'll add one of those glue on recoil pads as is often installed on shotgun stocks. That should add about an inch. Then get a slip on recoil pad - also often used on shotguns. A number of the slip on pads come with inserts of various thicknesses. I plan to use as many as feels right when I slide the slip on pad over the glued on pad. Should be able to add up to an inch and a half or so bringing the total thickness to two and a half inches, more or less. Probably will look "unusual". Another thought is to get a basic replacement stock and add on an adjustment system as is on the Magpul PRS stock. More work and expense with that, but probably could get longer LOP. Good luck! I see what you're saying. Thanks. As for adding an adjustment system...meh. I'd probably just choose to shoot it fully extended and put my orangutan arms to good use. Again, thanks for the help all. |
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